BHVR listening mostly to survivors
Well lets make this quick unlike my 3 other tries to type this
Anyone who plays this game often and is in the community knows behaviour favors the survivor's words more then killer and for that I say it's not right but it is way more fair then if they favored killer since well killers won't complain about their killer being op all they would have to do is complain about a survivor perk that counters their ability like calm sprit against doctor and then it would kill the survivors ability to have a fighting chance but when behavior favors survivor it hasn't killed the game and I don't see it happening anytime soon
Conclusion I suck at ending these things but instead of going crazy in the comments talk about this like civilized humans because I want to hear what you think and hear your criticism but please don't be too hard on eachother this is just for conversation
Edit: made it easier to read
Comments
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Can you provide ANY examples where BHVR favored survivors? Any at all?
The devs have been constantly balancing the game, and now killers have a have a much higher chance of winning compared to previous years, where you could have 2 pallets at the same loop, infinites, exhaustion recovering mid-chase.. but you still complain about BHVR favoring survivors? In my eyes, there have been more killer buffs than survivor buffs.
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DS and Enduring. The number of buffs and nerfs is irrelevant if there's a big gap between them.
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At the time when enduring came out, the only way to stun the killer was to throw a pallet at him. The devs only had pallet stuns in mind when they were creating the perk. DS came later, and no wonder they removed the enduring effect on it after some time - for consistency reasons. This is just simple balancing, not favoring in any way.
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Wrong. Here's the timeline, starting with when DS was released:
- DS released.
- DS buffed and nerfed a few times, ending with the current version, but with a 3-second stun.
- DS buffed to 5 seconds explicitly because it was too weak with Enduring affecting it.
- Enduring nerfed to no longer affect stun perks.
- DS remains at 5 seconds.
This, to me, was the most blatant display of favoritism in recent DbD years (not that there are many of them).
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Where is your proof for point 3?
Besides, with or without old enduring, 3 seconds was way too little. 5 seconds is the fully appopriate duration of the stun, considering you waste around 1 second of the stun as a survivor when the drop animation is happening. This lets the perk work as it was intended and lets you get some distance instead of getting downed 5 seconds after using it.
Simple balancing. No favoritism.
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The proof is the devs' literal justification for buffing DS. I'm taking them at their word.
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Can you provide a source?
And my point still stands. 5 seconds is fully appropriate for DS.
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No, I don't know which stream it was.
Your point does not stand. Those were the devs' words, their justifications for the DS buff and Enduring nerf. It was a blatant display of favoritism, nothing more.
It's the little things like this that make people believe the devs favor survivors, not the (completely irrelevant) number of nerfs.
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If you don't have the source, then I simply do not believe you. As simple as that...
I guess the stream was over a year ago. If it even happened, that is. And I really doubt you remember the exact words of the developers.
Game balancing is not favoritism.
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Enduring got changed with the 3.0.0 Update which was June 2019 (Ghostface Release). Stream must be from May then. But I can't find it atm.
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The current iteration of DS was made with tunneling in mind (ignore the fact people learned to abuse it). A 3 seconds stun does nothing to stop a tunneling killer, just like the recent bug on some killers showed. It's not favoritism, it is balancing with a precise idea in mind.
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This must be the stream.
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Might be wrong but I don't think the OP is complaining. I think their point is that BHVR favours survivors and that's a good thing because if it was the other way round then the game would die cause the player population would be unbalanced. (If lots of survivors mains stopped playing or whatever)
Albeit I don't have a clue whether it's true or not - just trying to clarify what I think they meant.
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That's for Enduring, yes, which starts at 40:00. Now if you could find the one about the DS buff...
It's sad that veterans aren't believed when we lived through these changes, but I guess that's in fashion nowadays.
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Why is it sad? People should be sceptical if there’s no proof, a “veteran” saying something doesn’t mean it’s true. People blindly believing everything they’re told is not a good thing.
I mean, I remember the devs saying it too so I believe you, but that doesn’t mean it’s unreasonable for someone to doubt it. People should question more.
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I don't think it's "blindly believing" when we literally lived through it and heard what was said. At best, the "blindly believing" part would be believing that I'm a veteran to begin with, which I think would be reasonable to question in the majority cases.
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I've searched a bit. 2.6.3 (Ash Release) was the DS buff. But they also buffed enduring at the same time, so it does work against DS.
But I can't find the stream about it sadly.
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A stranger on a forum doesn’t know you, what you’ve lived through, whether you’re a vet, how good your memory is, and whether you have any biases or reasons to lie. They have no reason to believe something just because you say so.
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So this conversation turned into a discussion on Decisive Strike, and only Decisive Strike.
Survivors are op and devs only listen to them because one perk that keeps killer from tunneling them out of the game I guess?
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everyone has this perception that if something one side gets nerfed or buffed the devs must also do something to the other side and give them a nerf or a buff and this mindset is plaguing dbd rn
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This is not the most blatant display of favoritism. It was MoM nerf.
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many people want ds reworked not because of the anti tunnel aspect but when they get ds'd when their not tunneling someone which is where the frustration occurs, i don t believe the devs have any bias i think they need better priorities than minor perk changes and such
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I know. I play killer and seen the swf hit squads pumping out gens and swapping people that haven't been DS'd yet.
But they make a sweeping statement with only one example? They buffed Sprint Burst a few more times right? Borrowed Time totally works against a Freddy right?
The only real complaint is SWF is still a thing and it's still blatant cheating. They should have an Among Us chapter because that game is ruined by comms as well.
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Don't make up lies. If the devs favoured survivors words more than killers then:
- Mori's would already have been removed.
- Spirit, Freddy, Doctor and Nurse would've been nerfed into the ground.
- NOED would've been nerfed.
- Every nerf they've done in the last year (big maps, instaheals and in the future keys) wouldn't have happened.
- Iridescent Head would've been nerfed.
- I've personally said enough about how I hate Hag that they probably would've nerfed her.
- Wouldn't get matched with potato teammates every game.
No more needs to be said.
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- Moris have been nerfed. They didn't require a hook at all when the game was released.
- Nurse has been nerfed a few times. She used to have 3 blinks, then 2, and now her blinks are on a timer.
- NOED has been nerfed a few times. It used to be infinite, then lasted for 2 minutes, and is now a Hex perk.
- Matchmaking is a coding issue, not related to balance. Everyone suffers from bad matchmaking.
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Except they weren't questioning whether I was a vet or not, they were questioning whether I was telling the truth about what happened.
MoM is a perk that should have never been released in its original state. Everyone could see it was broken.
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The biggest display of favoritism (aside from what @Orion mentioned) would be the recent explanation of Almo on nerfing pgtw when the same can be applied to ds.
Aside from these, there is a big diffrence in bug fixing. Survivors are "just" skins with diffrent volumes of breathing, grunts of pain etc. Killers differ way more from one another so when you main a certain killer and it is bugged, and BHVR does not fix bugs it tends to be very frustrating after a certain amount of time.
For example take the reworks, there is freddy, who get much stronger and easy to play. Great for those who like that, superb. There are reworks like nurse, nurse is/was bugged for a longtime since then. I am still waiting for bug fixes of that rework, this is a year by now. It gets frustrating to have bugs impact your game and when you then see an addonbug of her being fixed as soon as it was made a little bit more known when it impacted survivor fun, it is really really disheartening to say the least. So you can fix bugs of deathslinger all you want or of other killers, for me the days/weeks/months/years of waiting just increase and nothing changes.
I understand that more players are affected by survivor bugs, yet I think after a year, it has been enough waiting for them to start fixing bugs even tho when less players do play nurse or a specific killers as I am sure nurse is not the only killer, just the one I am most aware of.
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Because you do not wish to believe it is your right sure, but if you wish to verify, then you can go look at the dev notes and responses when they changed DS most recently. DS was originally the obession could use it as soon as they got picked up but not after a hook (this is just before the change) and anyone else running DS had to wait 30-40 percent of the wiggle bar (and thus not able to really use it in most cases). complaints kept coming in during this time along with the complaint that the survivors were complaining that the killers knew they had DS as it acted like ALL OTHER survivor perks and basically made you the obsession.
Devs changed it to give less of an extra chance to become the obsession thus masking who the one(s) with DS really was. this change also changed the obession to the one that USED DS last. (please note people were also wondering if you could have multiple rancor kills and it was confirmed that you could). During this time there were some other changes made I don't remember if it was a chapter patch or that patch where DS was being affected by enduring and at 3 seconds, thus giving survivors less than a second to get out of the way. At this point devs originally buffed ds' stun time to 5 seconds and left enduring affecting it, people complained this didn't give anyone any time still to get away so they removed enduring's affect on anything but pallet stuns.
you can do your own research and find it, me? I don't give a damn if you believe multiple people telling you that is how it happened. but it was sometime early-mid 2019 that this change occurred.
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? I didn’t say they were, my comment is about people having no reason to believe the words of a stranger online. Believe it not people lie, are mistaken, misremember, or exaggerate all the time.
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Yeah but @Orion is telling the truth tho. Iirc they chose that enduring will no longer affect ds since it always ended up with very weird values thus they decided to no longer affect it all but did stay with the 5sec stun of ds, which they previously had increased. Also this wonders completely offtopic.
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Cant find source either, but this was their reasoning.
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Ruin Says hello
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SWFs wasn't touched once since it was released. Good Survs are breaking the game by just holding W and doing there objectives. Most killers don't have enough time and feel forced to tunnel and/or camp. After the Ruin nerf they have the Undying/Ruin (which is actually map pressure) clusterfix, but it's getting boring for both sides (same 2-3 perks everytime). Because it doesn't change the foundation, the reason why gens can go so fast.
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Didn't survivors used to have true infinites, only fast vault animations, exhaustion regenerated while being chased, and double pallets with vacuum that sucked killers into being stunned?
Going KILLER GET NURFED FOR NO RAISIN is disingenuous.
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I haven't seen any evidence of this personally. I think you should support such a premise with evidence statements if you are going to make it. I think Behavior listens to whatever and whomever is going to keep their company healthy and making profit. That is commonsense. The game only works with both Survivors and Killers. They need both equally since it is not cost effective to have to come up with AI code to Bot either side. That would cut seriously into the bottom line. This game was clearly founded on a brilliant idea, why not let Players provide both Antagonists and Protagonist and save us the nightmare of all that code?
To me, anecdotal evidence alone, it is clear that Behavior studies and works toward keeping the game as healthy as possible for all sides because that is what keeps them in business. Balance will never be perfect in a system like this because there are too many variables. However, they do a fairly good job by all accounts and the clear evidence that they are still here and roaring along successfully. In this market, far more games crash and burn (and are forgotten) than those which last four years and turn a profit.
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Current ruin is much more powerful and more consistent than the previous one. And even then, it was not a nerf, but a rework
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I think you do give a damn after all if you decided to write this essay for me. I appreciate it, but I already knew all of this info :/
My question to Orion was if he could provide specific quotes or a video fragment from the devs saying that the changes to enduring were "explicitly caused by DS".
And I don't really think 2 people is "multiple" people. Is it?
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You can never be sure without a source. And even then, like I said, this was done for balancing and consistency reasons, not because the devs favor one side or another.
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You can be sure if you were there. Also, you're trying to retroactively excuse this display of bias by imposing your reasoning onto an action that the devs themselves justified in a different way. That's not gonna work.
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Oh yeah, Ruin is so strong, that survivors don´t even bother searching for it.
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In 3/4 trials I don't even know it's in play until I start my second generator. The other 1/4 are when the killer finds me first. That's how impactful it is.
EDIT: I should say, though, that we (survivors) still search for it because when we need to unhook, heal, whatever, we don't want the generators to regress too much.
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So you asked for examples and then dismiss them...
Okay then.
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Evidently they don't listen to the forums. I know because...
- Doctor is still in the game
- Myers hasn't been nerfed to have no Tier 3
- Bubba hasn't been deleted
- Pig hasn't been buffed
- The hatch doesn't spawn at the start of the match to buff keys
- Killers haven't had the add on system removed in favor of survivors choosing what add ons they play against
- The perk system for killers hasn't been removed
- DS hasn't been reverted to old DS
- BNP hasn't been rebuffed
- Wraith hasn't been nerfed
- Pig hasn't had her ambush taken away
- Trapper hasn't been nerfed
- Clown hasn't been nerfed to get slowed by his own gas
- BT hasn't been made a "feature"
- Phead hasn't been deleted
- Generator speeds haven't been buffed
I've seen all of these in my time on the forums.
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The biggest nerf in the past 2 years for killer were Ruin, Nurse and Spirit and it turned out Nurse and spirit are still to strong and Ruin is actually even better now then it used to be. So... what are we even talking about?
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If you have at least two braincells and know how to utilize the perk, then yeah, it is strong - much stronger than old ruin. And if you think survivors do not search for ruin, then please get out of green/brown ranks.
I didn't dismiss anything, buddy.
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Also Hmm unnerving presence and enduring used to counter ds. Then they patch it so unnerving doesnt affect ds only. It literally affects all skillchecks but ds (even doctors). Enduring also counters ds so ds gets buffed to 5 seconds then they nerf enduring and keep ds.
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Dont forget infinites, bigger and more survivor friendly maps, Insta heals, Insta BNP, Insta Vault, old DS, old MoM, no entity blocker, much slower vauling speed of killer, MUCH more pallets, much better loops, darker maps so survivor could hide better, killer perks were terrible, multible exhaustion perks at the same time possbile because of cooldown etc etc
Its absolutly absurd to claim that devs are survivor sided when all they do is make it more easy for killer from patch to patch.
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Well I can't take your word for granted if you can't provide a source. I might as well say I am secretly the CEO of BHVR. Would you believe me?
And if you think balancing the game is "bias", because, like I explained, DS needs a 5 second stun to work properly, then I'm glad you're not a game developer..
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In the grand scheme, they mostly listen to killers for sure. Survivors have continuously been nerfed since 2016 in so many ways. There's been a few killer nerfs here and there (Nurse and Hillbilly) but overall they have all been buffed. With all the perks killers have at their disposal, it is no longer about skill to win, they use perks to find gens being worked on, auras to chase, and regress and stop the objective with ease. A fairly decent killer using good addons, and the best oppressive killer perks all require a top SWF sweating a genrush to just barely stand a chance to open the gates.
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Really? If you say so...
Okay, i give you the benefit of the doubt. How is the new Ruin stronger then the old one?
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