Why the needless Thanatophobia nerf? (Would like dev response)
I'm genuinely curious as to why BHVR thinks that increasing the Thanatophobia perk's percentages by 1% justifies removing the heal slowdown to prevent a (as they put it) "lose/lose scenario".
Let's do some math here. Base healing speed is 16 seconds. With current Thanatophobia's 16% slowdown, this bumps it up to 18.56 seconds. Two and a half seconds is not crippling by itself. Stack this with the Mangled effect for 40%, you're up to 21.76s. That's a bit more oomph, but now you've used half your perks for this. Run this with Coulrophobia, you're up to 86% slower, or 29.76s. Now that's definitely painful, but not only is it unrealistic (you'd have to keep people injured within your TR the entire time, something only two killers can do without Dark Devotion), but you'd also have to devote 3 perk slots to it, essentially devoting your entire playstyle to relying on preventing them from healing, AND this is assuming none of them have medkits or healing perks.
Now. Say that the new Thanatophobia kept the healing debuff. This would only bump it up to 19.2 seconds by itself, 22.4s paired with Mangled, and 30.4 with both and Coulrophobia. That's an extra 0.64 seconds across the board. Not a significant increase by any means... and this is assuming that again, none of them have medkits or healing perks.
If a Survivor just ran Botany Knowledge, it would negate both forms of Thanatophobia completely, and negate Thana+Sloppy down to just 3%/7% slower healing. If you run Botany Knowledge and Desperate Measures, then it negates Thana+Sloppy+Coulrophobia completely, and makes the new version slow you down only 1%. (Botany+max Desperate Measures clocks in at 89% faster heals, for reference). One could also just use We'll Make It, which trumps all healing slowdown. Or For The People, or any number of options.
So where exactly is the "lose/lose" scenario, outside of a situation where survivors literally cannot heal, such as being Broken? It's unrealistic to expect an average Killer to focus that hard on an anti-heal build, but Survivors having a medkit with speed addons/healing perks is both astoundingly common and offers tons of options for counterplaying this.
Comments
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Holy crap those numbers. I didn’t think they were so little. I knew they were low but damn! An extra 0.64 seconds is not worth the loss of the heal slowdown.
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Thana didn't get nerfed
Old thana at max:
Time to fix a gen: 80/(1-0.16)=~95 seconds so about 15 extra seconds
Time to Heal: 16/(1-0.16)=~19 seconds so 3 extra seconds
New thana at max
Time to fix a gen: 80/(1-0.20)=100 so 20 seconds more
Old thana with 2 injured
Time to fix a gen: 80/(1-0.08)=~87 so 7 extra seconds
Time to heal: 16/(1-0.08)=~17 so 1 extra second
New thana at 2 injured
Time to fix a gen: 80/(1-0.10)=~89 so 9 extra seconds
They bassicly shifted the extra healing time to the gen time and then some + totems are affected too now.
It's a marginal buff but a buff nonetheless
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The point isn't the gen times; due to the math of how the gen times work, that absolutely is a buff in that regard. My point is that removing the healing debuff is more of a loss, making the perk not work it, ie you are losing more than you are gaining with this buff.
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It was a buff. All good killers brought thana in the hopes that survivors would heal because of the penalty. The problem was survivors never healed. Now they may heal more thinking it's better and waste more time.
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It wasn’t a nerf. You and everyone saying it was just don’t know what Thana was actually meant to be used for.
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No it's not, the extra time it took to heal was litterally just transfed to the gens. the extra time old thana gave to healing is less then the extra 1% new thana does to gens. It's straight up a net positive.
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I would presume a perk that slows down gens and healing would be used for slowing down gens and healing, but perhaps that's just my radical and wild thinking.
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All the numbers in the OP are wrong, please see here:
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See, this is more useful. Factual information that allows me to re-examine the data based on an error. Thank you.
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Actually it's main purpose was to encourage survivors to heal more to remove the debuff on the generators, buying you time, or power through it, slowing the game down very very marginally. It's much more of a trick. With new thana it's better for survivors to heal- 20 seconds longer on a gen, or 16 seconds healing.
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old and new thano values are this
1 injured - healing(16.64s) gen time(83.2s) new thano gen time(84s)
2 injured - healing(17.28s) gen time(86.4s) new thano gen time(88s)
3 injured - healing(17.92s) gen time(89.6s) new thano gen time(92s)
4 injured - healing(18.56s) gen time(92.8s) new thano gen time(96s)
these values are barely different in fact i would argue that old thano is better since it wasted more time when people healed. 4 seconds is just not enough extra time and just makes the perk more weak on killers that lack ways to quickly injure all survivors and just slightly if at all stronger on killers like legion and plague.
the way i look at it is old thano wasted 18.5 seconds when survivors healed or 12.8 seconds when they didn't and new thano wastes 16 seconds at most from either healing or doing gens. the devs should increase the percentage by another 1% or 2%.
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It was nerfed pretty hard, did not have fun with it on the ptb, had to run legion to get any use out of it.
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You've calculated wrong. See here:
On how to do it right. Yes this was posted earlier in the discussion (thanks @Orion once again). New thana at max stacks is 20 seconds added, or 100s.
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The healing regression worked against its actual purpose of encouraging survivors to heal. This is 100% a buff.
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Thana is still a useless perk.
Devs need to use the test server to mess around with perks in significant ways. Make some op like thana and then work it down till its in a good spot.
Adding 3 seconds to one man on a gen isnt gonna do anything. They change things in such minor ways most of the time.... changing anything time wise by less then 5 seconds is gonna be completely unnoticeable
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If you ran the old Thanatophobia along with Sloppy Butcher, all it did was convince your average survivors to forget healing and rush your gens even harder.
By buffing the gen slowing and eliminate the healing debuff...they are more likely to waste that 30 some seconds healing each other rather than doubling up and pounding out your gens faster.
So, I guess it depends on the beholder if that is better or worse.
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Just gonna throw out my piece on this. The 1% difference per survivor is by no means, anywhere near an equal buff for removing the healing penalty. As now it makes healing easier so survivors are more likely to do it. So you are far less likely to have 4 survivors injured, and with that it also means that survivors dont have a reason to NOT heal. Now thana, can be fully bypassed by doing stuff survivors should be doing anyway. Not a huge fan of thana before the change but now its just useless
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Thana's slowdown is supposed to be the actual healing itself. It's supposed to force people to heal. It doesn't.
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I'll leave you this thread by @TheClownisKing: https://bit.ly/3dpOpph
It wasn't a nerf, it was a massive buff.
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Post edited by rglarson13 on1
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Yeah no it’s not lol
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That's the entire point. This wasn't a nerf.
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But... That was a nerf because now its even MORE useless
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But it wasn't, because survivors are actually going to spend their time healing instead of gens.
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