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Why was pop nerfed?
As a survivor main i dont get it, pop reworded killers for doing there job and it helped slow down the game. Not to mention there are still really bad perks in the game that need to be fixed.
Comments
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The reason they gave was you could do too many other things within 60 seconds and still have it. Yet when asked about DS nothing happened.
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Because Killers had too much time to do what they wanted and still pop a gen.
Meanwhile, Survivors get 60 seconds of immunity while they can do whatever they want unhindered via Decisive Strike.
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i mean i always thought the 60 seconds was way too much since it was buffed. even at 30 seconds i was like this so good no way is it getting buffed and then the devs doubled its timer. it is still one of the best killer perks to regress gens its just now sometimes you have to prioritize its use on a gen then downing a survivor before using it which you can still do sometimes.
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Pop has nothing to do with DS
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The reason they gave does. It's a double standard. 60 seconds is too much time for killer yet survivors get to keep their 60 sec timers. Only shows the devs are survivor sided.
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Apparently it allowed Killers to do too much and still pop a gen (even though low mobility Killers actually needed the time to get to some gens).
The devs then proceeded to act like DS didn’t give Survivors 60 seconds of immunity. They still haven’t addressed that point.
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I agree that DS should be nerfed again. Still, all 60 second timers are not created equal; just because it's too long for Pop doesn't mean it's too long for other perks. Like, should we make MYC 45 seconds instead? No need. It's not Pop.
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The argument here is both pop and DS are meta perks on both sides and people on either sides find the other frustrating. So since pop got nerfed, people are wondering where the DS nerf is. But then, the devs cannot really push everything at once. Cant really blame them.
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We also have to take into account the survivors can have 240 seconds on their perks if everyone brings it. At red ranks DS is damn near equipped by everyone.
Now that you said it out loud there will be a shadow nerf to myc lol
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You're right, but that's just entitlement and whataboutism. Killers are indignant that their meta perk got nerfed without survivor meta perks also being nerfed. The decision of whether or not to nerf Pop didn't have anything to do with the survivor meta, though, and besides it's unreasonable to expect the devs to always change the survivor and killer meta together just to make the partisans on the forum happy.
The devs should make whatever changes make sense to balance the game whenever they feel they're necessary. Pop was the strongest killer perk in the game before the nerf, and it will remain the strongest killer perk in the game after the nerf.
Totally agree with you that it's hard to blame them for not changing everything at once. I'm sure they'll nerf DS again at some point, and I agree that they should.
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They were both meta perks with 60 second timers.
Killer mains and people who play both sides have been begging to have DS nerfed in some way as it is meta because it is arguably the most powerful perk in the game. Few people thought Pop needed a nerf.
The nerf that was given to Pop was a nerf that would have made a lot more sense on DS so it makes sense that people question the decision.
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I don't disagree that DS should be nerfed, like I said. I just disagree with the "Pop got nerfed, DS needs to be nerfed" reasoning. It should be "DS needs to be nerfed because it's OP", not "DS needs to be nerfed because Pop got nerfed".
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The point was that killers were always complaining that 60 seconds on DS was too long cuz the killer can go chase a different survivor, down them, hook them and then chase the one with DS and still get hit with DS. Then the devs go and use the same reasoning to nerf pop. I don't blame killers for being mad but I do think it's dumb to say survivor bias.
Ps that's not what whataboutism is. Ppl really need to learn what that word means instead of just throwing it around.
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It's just them pointing out a problem that needs to be fixed they're saying that instead of pops timer being nerfed they should nerf DS's timet
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Who cares whether or not they're meta and whether or not their timers are the same? I thought Pop clearly needed a nerf and I also think DS clearly needs a nerf. Still, DS's nerf is probably not going to be so simple, though, while Pop's was just a question of reducing the timer. DS needs more than that imo. I've seen lots of good suggestions about making it disable when touching a gen/totem/chest, when another survivor gets hooked, etc., and I would support something like that to make it a true anti-tunneling perk. That's going to require more testing than just trimming the timer down. They've also already nerfed DS three times, so I don't blame them for not wanting to half-ass it this time.
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As far as I can tell the decision was random at best... I struggle to find the cries of "pop needs nerf", "PGtW is op" etc. However there are actual balance breakers (leaving DS out of it) look at OoO, how is that not addressed?
I know it's unrelated to the post but it's related to your defense to DS.
Edit: misread the last post. Sorry and disregard the comment about defending DS. Sorry.
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"Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument"
People are saying that the devs are selectively applying logic to justify a nerf to Pop while not nerfing DS. "Oh yeah, well, how are you going to let DS stand when you nerfed Pop with logic that should also apply to DS!" Almost no one is directly addressing whether the nerf to Pop was necessary, or even substantial enough to alter how it's used. If someone were to drop a "Pop's timer should actually have been changed to 50 seconds instead. Here's an analysis I compiled based on hook times and pop times from 200 red rank matches," that would be awesome. But no, people are just mad at the devs for a double standard that doesn't exist. That is whataboutism.
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The reason people get upset about the divide isn't because they specifically want the same to be applied to DS, but more that they want anything to be done to it at all. DS is far more exploitable than PGTW could ever possibly hope to be, has better synergy with other perks, and is a perk that gains power by existing without even needing to actually be utilized. The prioritization is the biggest issue, the double standard callout is simply frustration at the excuse used.
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I get it, but it has nothing to do with the question "Why was Pop nerfed?" Pop's nerf had nothing to do with DS. DS not being nerfed also has nothing to do with whether it was a good change.
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the reasoning for it was, that killers should have to decide between kicking a gen with pop or going in a chase immediately.
with the 60 second timer killers could go for a chase first, down the survivor, then kick their gen with pop and then get another pop from the new hook.
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I understand the frustration with DS. I almost never run it as survivor because it drives me nuts as killer. I'm just tired of the "they nerfed my tribe without nerfing the other tribe" logic. That's just a recipe for mud slinging. If you want to call for a DS nerf, people shouldn't say "But muh Pop". People should say what's in your comment - that it needs to be respected just because it might exist, that it has insane synergy with UB/Soul Guard, etc.
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But if they make a new topic talking about whether or not the two are similar and whether or not the two deserve the same treatment it is no longer whataboutism. You're using whataboutism as if things are a debate and we're all answering each other. This is a different discussion on a different topic. If you talk about why pop deserved the nerf without mentioning DS and some1 brings up DS, then that is whataboutism.
Now here's the biggest problem with a lot of ppl using whataboutism. They miss 2 things you learn in university about tu quoque.
1. Don't be a pretentious prick about fallacies and use them to shut down conversations. This is literally the first thing they tell you in class. U should use them to enhance your arguments at most but still address ppl's concerns.
2. It is not a tu quoque, if you use it against a moral argument. This has nothing to do with this conversation but I just want to put it out there cuz if your only argument is something is unfair, unfun or OP and some1 points out hypocrisy, it's no longer a tu quoque.
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IIRC it wasn't really as much of a meme argument until there was a dev response that described why DS needs to be changed better than PGTW "needed" it. I'm sure plenty of people made the comparison before that due to the timers being similar, but that really set people off.
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I gotchu fam. Have a mini on the house.
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Wild theory:
Pop gets nerfed -> Players switch to ruin + undying -> they dont have undying, ruin or both -> they buy the killers to get them -> more money
extended version: Killers use ruin + undying -> soul guard becomes better -> survivors buy silent hill chapter to get soul guard -> even more money
/s
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IF you want the devs to fix this game, stop buying with your money, when the devs see that they are running out of penniless pennies they see that they need to do something about it to improve, as long as you spend like an out of control they will never improve this game, the only sound that devs hear and our money.
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This entire forum is a huge echo chamber. Nothing goes away.
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Someone asked why was popped nerfed and I answered. You dont like beating a dead horse than dont open a thread about a topic thats already been discussed. No one is making you read this.
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Becouse effective killer perks are not allowed in this game. Only vanilla perks, other things are crutches.
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pop spelled backwards is still pop
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Almo said the killer can do too much with 60 seconds of Pop and yet had NO ANSWER for DS. Whereas the killer can't even use it when the gates are powered and whereas survivors can be healed, work on a gen, save a hooked one and still be have 15 seconds left to be grabbed or leave when the gates are open.
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