Why the game will never be balanced

@altruistic said:
Imagine thinking Killer at the moment is hard.

You clearly never played Killer in 2016, or 2017.

So many new players think they’re better than they actually are.  They play against better people and immediately think it’s the games fault.  Gamers today in a nutshell. 

I'd say killer right now is pretty difficult. I mean obviously nothing will compare to when the game was launched and infinites were in the game. But after those were slowly taken out of the game killer became a lot better. I'd have to say that right now killer is probably harder then it ever was after the removal of infiniting and pallet spawns.

I mean getting 4 kills a game is still easy if you play in a scummy way. But for killer's that try to play by "survivors" rules... Getting a couple of kills a game is challenging. Games over in 4 minutes. The first chase takes 3 minutes due to Ds & Dead Hard w/ Insta Medkit. That's 3 get out of jail free cards. Just saying though. I still get to rank 1 on both sides. But I actually play more survivor right now cause it's a lot more enjoyable. Easy to win and easy to have fun. Killers fine too but there's literally groups out there that only play to try and make a killer salty. And after you've played them a few times in one day you just don't want to play killer anymore.

@Elegant said:

@AgentTalon said:
I'm so glad the Nurse on PS4 doesn't have the same impact on the game as she does on PC. Sounds like she's a real tough cookie on PC but I've seen maybe 5 out of 200 games or so on PS4.

The nurse has zero counterplay on pc. If the nurse plays well she is going to win and there isn't anything you can do about it. The only way you win vs Nurse is if she plays poorly and makes mistakes.

Matches against the Nurse are a matter of skill. If you lose, it means the other player was better than you.

@RotBb said:
   It’s fair to say that the devs do not realize that the killer is supposed to be stronger than the survivor... Dead by Daylight should be asymmetrical, not symetrical. The devs have focused on nerfing killers day in and day out, but that’s because the survivors are louder.

What nerfs are you referring to? Over the last six months, survivors have been nerfed far more than killers have.

   Balance in this game requires for it to be unbalanced.

No, asymmetrical doesn't mean unbalanced. People need to understand this.

The killer should be intimidating through and through the game.

Do survivors not run or hide from you?

Even when the exits are powered, the killer shouldn’t have to turn themself in.

Because every killer drops what they're doing and sits in a corner once all gens are powered?

The hatch shouldn’t be a free escape.

It's not.

All strategies should be allowed (mentioning that with the upcoming camping nerf).

All strategies should not equally viable across all ranks. Some strategies take more effort than others, and camping is on the farthest on the low-effort side.

I can ignore all my teammates and play hyper immersed every single game, but that doesn't mean I am entitled to rank up. I can slug the crap out of survivors I find and heavily trap their bodies, and that doesn't mean I am entitled to rank up either.

Killers shouldn’t have to be a god tier nurse to have fun.

God tier Nurses are the standard for fun?

If you are intending to have a serious discussion about balance, overblown and dramatized exaggerations are not helping you make a case.

The only thing I can agree on is that killer needs to be stronger and less stressful, but it is impossible to actually talk about this when more than half of your post's content is a fantasy.

@MisterCremaster said:
The problem is that killers feel like they've only won if they 4k and survivors don't always care if they do get killed.

Lets review:
4 Kill = The survivors really messed up
3 Kill = You won! Congrats!
2 Kill = You tied. This is not a loss.
1 Kill = You messed up somewhere. Survivors won.
0 Kill = You probably messed up a lot and or had some rotten luck.

If more killers understood that, then there would be less complaining. If killers think they need a 4k to win, then they are going to get frustrated and feel like they are CONSTANTLY losing.

Its an interesting dynamic how most people playing survivor don't seem to feel the same way. Killers just take the game way harder than they do. Survivors seem to die and move on much more readily.

There are many killers that feel that a 3k should be the standard for the game. TBH I don't think the number of kills matters that much. The game should be centered around feeling satisfying for both sides.

Sacrificing myself for teammates or getting a good chase in makes me feel good as a survivor, but killers don't have that feeling. They feel pressured to get a goal completed, and that one goal tends to be frustrating to get regardless. Or so easy that it's not satisfying at all (ex: "Why did you run into me" cases).

If a killer is thinking "######### these survivors" after a 4k, that's not adequately balanced. Also part of it is feeling that they are not in control over their losses (e.g. "I lost because of SWF, unbalance perks, OP survivor add ons", etc. ) rather than attributing losses internally (e.g. "oh I messed up, I should've slugged instead of picking up"). And feeling as though they are being judged (e.g. expecting mean endgame chat).

Obviously I can't speak for every survivor, but when I lose, I don't immediately think "wow of course they're using BBQ Billy screw this guy" or "Nurse is some OP PoS". But that may be part due to the lowered stress of being part of a team, playing with friends, less focus on numerical outcomes as a survivor, etc.

When playing as killer, coordination feels unfair, when it really shouldn't. It is so obvious how killers view coordination when playing as a solo survivor, you get accused of playing SWF (which shouldn't be a bad thing, again).

@Elegant said:

@Orion said:

@Elegant said:

@AgentTalon said:
I'm so glad the Nurse on PS4 doesn't have the same impact on the game as she does on PC. Sounds like she's a real tough cookie on PC but I've seen maybe 5 out of 200 games or so on PS4.

The nurse has zero counterplay on pc. If the nurse plays well she is going to win and there isn't anything you can do about it. The only way you win vs Nurse is if she plays poorly and makes mistakes.

Matches against the Nurse are a matter of skill. If you lose, it means the other player was better than you.

No it isn't lmao. There are zero good, valid arguments that can be made for Nurse being a skill matchup.

nurse does have a valid argument, you need to know how to use her, if not your screwed

Not to sound like a cocky dingus but once again you only are focusing on fixing the symptoms of the disease instead of the disease itself. The imbalance that plagues this game is caused by the ratio of objectives on each side. For 4 survivors there are only 5 generators that take only 80 seconds each with only 1 survivor on them at base repair speed. Then if you want to add the exit gates you got 7 objectives for 4 players to do. On the killer side, the killer has 3 objectives per survivor (3 hooks per survivor to kill) so in total that's 12 objectives and then add another 5 objectives with defending the generators and then 2 more of the exit gates. So in total altogether, the lone Killer player has 19 total objectives to manage all by himself. And to add the icing on the cake, the original 12 objectives that the killer has to manage varies based on the survivor's tactics and plays instead of just a set timer of 80 seconds like survivors have. It astounds me that the devs can code but can't add that up lol

I play both sides pretty much, i used to main killer like a year ago, it was quite hard, well not quite it was very hard, lots of looping, swf, flashlights etc. I feel survivor was pretty broken before, specially more with swf, but right now, i play survivor as a solo player, and i honestly find myeslf on the point of uninstalling the game, it's nerf after nerf, swf might be broken still, but when you play with random survivors, the game is legit just, bad, most of them are very potato even tho you are low rank, and the main problem is, at least on my side, the tunneling, slugging, camping is still a must on every killer i face, even tho they can catch up survivors easier than before. When i play killer i honestly think it's easy, i dont play as a nurse, before some ppl says nurse is broken n stuff, i play as a pig, for 95% of my matches, i have a p3 pig and it's honestly easy to play, and right now the more nerf survivors get the more gen rush they will do, i been on the side of survivors doing "gen rush" and it's honestly boring and not fun, you cant get points neither pip from a gen rush game, and when you try to face the killer you get straight slugged for having DS, or getting tunneled right off the hook so you cant play the game at all, imagine getting unhooked and hit the second after getting unhooked, where is the skill on that, there is nothing a survivor can do after getting tunneled right after a hook, and you will say "well just pop a borrow time smh" on solo games not every survivor comes with a perk build to fight toxicity, not everyoen runs DS, BT, Unbreakable for slugging memes, flashlights and things like that, i consider a good game, when i dont get tunneled slugged and facecamped, piping up and not getting bmed like that feels like a good game, same as killer, when i got plenty of hooked ppl , good bp and a pip i think it was a great match, most of my matches as killer i hook only 1 or 2 survivors and let the rest go cus it's way too easy lol.

@Elegant said:

@alivebydeadight said:

@Elegant said:

@Orion said:

@Elegant said:

@AgentTalon said:
I'm so glad the Nurse on PS4 doesn't have the same impact on the game as she does on PC. Sounds like she's a real tough cookie on PC but I've seen maybe 5 out of 200 games or so on PS4.

The nurse has zero counterplay on pc. If the nurse plays well she is going to win and there isn't anything you can do about it. The only way you win vs Nurse is if she plays poorly and makes mistakes.

Matches against the Nurse are a matter of skill. If you lose, it means the other player was better than you.

No it isn't lmao. There are zero good, valid arguments that can be made for Nurse being a skill matchup.

nurse does have a valid argument, you need to know how to use her, if not your screwed

That's not a valid argument. With Nurse you learn how to blink and you win every single time. That's not balance. Having to have a moderate amount of skill at something to always win is not balance. There is not a single competitive video game that has a character that works that way. There is not a single character in LoL or Dota that has an insanely high win rate in high ranks. In League atm the character with the highest win rate is sitting at 54%. I would be willing to bet that anyone who has over 40 hours on Nurse and is in rank 1 probably has at least an 80% win rate on Nurse. If not even higher than that. That's not balance.

No its not that, most nurse players cant play her but instead are trying to do her blink challenge, dont challenge me with that bs of win rate, the perks sprint burst, adrenaline, and dead hard just waste her blink and force her to get exhausted and in the higher ranks, most players run atleast one of the 3

I don't think everyone has the same definition of what asymmetrical game means - some think it is power level, while what I found is it is just two sides that can play in drastically different ways. The term unbalanced is used but no reference to power levels (in some situations one side would have the advantage while it would be opposite in other situations) and I never found where it says one specific side is always stronger than the other.

That said - 'balance' in regards to power level is going to be very tough if not impossible here in not only with drastically different ways to play but drastically different objectives to complete, not to mention killer is invulnerable while survivors can be eliminated and do not respawn.