After clown gets buffed pig will be the weakest killer in the game and I’m sad

My recent Plague games in red ranks where exactly the opposite. They cleansed like crazy. The instance they were infected, running to a fountain, and then continuing to gen rush. It forced me to use fountains left and right to not loose them all at once (when the last fountain gets used). I gotta admit, I prefer them not cleansing at all to this, it just feels super stressful.

Assuming the worst is not a great way to judge killer strength. What about Nurse then? At her worst, she is not blinking at all and chases the survs normally, which is totally futile bc she is slower then the survivors (only with bloodlust she might get one or two hits). Or let her blink, but miss each and every one.

By assuming the worst, Nurse is the weakest killer, followed by Myers (stuck in Tier 1, bc no stalks). Even Hag is weaker than trapper if you assume the worst, bc she is a 110% killer.

With all due respect, but why are we blindly trusting statistics when it comes to Pig but when the Nurse gets mentioned, we look further for an explanation as to why this is the case? I'm not disagreeing with you on Nurse, but moreso critical of the idea that Pig doesn't need any help since that whole idea seems to be based of those very same statistics.

I don't really get some your decisions but I appreciate you wading into the snake pit to talk to us.

I don't think pig needs to be buffed massively + think she's underrated but could her add-ons and maybe trap rng be looked at at some point?

#MakeLiverBase2021

1. Plague is A tier at worst

2. Demogorgon is one of the most balanced killers in the game along with Legion

3. Wraith isn't that bad. He just suffers from a few things like his base stats being bad and his ability to be seen from far away. Besides being add on dependant he's not a bad killer.

I don't have thousands of hours on Pig (400-500) but she doesn't need M&A, Enduring and Spirit Fury on to make her good

I run: Sloppy, Corrupt, BBQ and Whispers and do just fine

I also have a fair amount of head pops without Tampered Timer/Crate of gears/ Jigsaw Sketch

What? He is. His add ons need work but they all have practical uses.

Anybody claiming Pig is the weakest killer needs to follow up by explaining why she has the fourth highest kill rates among red rank killers. Obviously kill rates aren’t the only way to measure effectiveness (e.g. Nurse has a low kill rate because of her extremely steep learning curve but has a very high potential) but they also aren’t meaningless in that a very high kill rate is difficult to rationalize if a killer is “weak”. What objective evidence do you actually have that Pig is the weakest killer because the circumstantial statistical evidence in the data contradicts that.

p.S. She was second highest on the All Ranks killer chart for reference. Which could indicate she is particularly strong against average opponents compared to higher rank opponents who are more situationally aware of stealth killers and possibly less intimidated by the traps.

I don't think she's the weakest necessarily, but I think she is weak. As for kill rates, I can only speak from personal experience, but there are a LOT of bad Survivors out there. I shouldn't be able to 3-4k strings of matches as a Pig in red rank without ever needing to use the ambush.

But the question is are you getting just as many 3-4k with her as with other killers? You presumably face just as many bad survivors with her as you do other killers. And note that the “bad survivor” factor is already kind of accounted for here because all the killers in the red rank chart have about a 10% higher kill rate across the board compared to the All Ranks chart and that’s due to the Red rank chart being all matches by red rank killers including those which had some “bad” lower rank survivor opponents. In other words all the killers in that chart are getting a stat boost from matches against bad survivors equally so it doesn’t explain why her kill rate is relatively higher than most of the other killers.

I pretty much only play Pig, so I cannot answer that question properly. All I can say is that I have done fairly well in red ranks as a borderline M1 killer (again, very rarely using her ambush) using "Agitation + Iron Grasp + Mad Grit + Surge." That's a Killer that's not even really using the full kit they have available plus an extremely meme build.

Right, and that’s great. My point is that none of that is evidence that Pig is weak, if anything it points to Pig being decent.

I really like the two kill rate charts you showed a few weeks ago (All Rank killers and Red Rank killers). Any chance you might get a chance to throw up a third chart which is Matches With Only Red Rank Players? I only ask because the Red Rank chart appears to be all matches with red rank killers but unfiltered for survivors which I suspect is why the kill rates are about 10% higher across the board (i.e. they’re inflated since many of those matches involve a red rank killer stomping a group that includes non-red rank survivors). It would be interesting to see if there’s statistical differences when you do the same bar chart but only including data from matches where all five players are red rank.

For example there could be killers who are particularly good against average survivors but have a relative weakness against stronger players, such as maybe stealth working better against players who are less situationally aware. In fact, looking at Pig in both charts, noticing that she drops from second to fourth place between all ranks and red ranks might indicate she’s weaker specifically in those higher rank matches, maybe, but her strong performance in average rank matches keeps her really high in the stats.

No worries if it’s too much work to get a third chart, figured it couldn’t hurt to ask though since you’re taking an interest in the thread. 🙂

play rate way better indicator for what people think about said killer. Remember how people used to think Billy was strong? In 2019, he had pick-rate of nearly 8.5%. In 2020, His pickrate is 3.48%, So he has lost more than roughly 66% of his player-base that used to play him regularly. Pig has about the same play-rate as Billy now. Heck to put into perceptive, many people say Trapper and Wraith are weak killers(which they are) but they rather play Trapper and Wraith than Billy in red ranks. Freddy and Spirit also used to have insane playrates, until their add-on got sledgehammered and weakened. Bubba who got reworked doesn't have a much different kill-rate than what he had before but he has a better play-rate now than he did a year ago. Over 1000 games, Pig probably just gets some head-pop that inflate her kill statistic but her kit on paper is quite bad and really only beats bad survivors who play against her stealth/box gameplay poorly. Kill rate is mostly a flawed statistic because it only tells the result, not the entire story of the game for how the result came to be. A better statistic would be average hook count as you need hooks to get kills and it paints a better picture for how well the killer does on average matches.

your missing my point. Strong killers are almost always popular regardless of their killrate. There is no such thing as "poor pickrate" strong killer. that stuff almost... never exists. if something is strong, it will get played a lot because people believe that they can win with said killer. I was using old chart to illustrate this aspect for how pickrates have way more meaning than kill rates with recent killer reworks. most of popular strong killers are between 5-6%. pigs is bottom of the barrel. I do not think that licensing plays that big of part in their pickrate. Freddy is licensed killer and he gets play a lot, Same for Bubba. When Bubba was worse, he was played less as seen in the previous chart. You can pretty much say that their popularity is mostly their strength. Strong killers are generally speaking... fun to play. Weak killers not so much and thus you will see them get played less.

im gonna have to hit you with a fat disagree. Wraith is, and will be the worst killer in the game. Excluding double windstorm, he basically has nothing going for him, and what he does have going for him can be countered every which way. and double windstorm doesn't even fix his kit, it just gives him so much movement speed, that you don't even really play with stealth, you just abuse the movement speed to get from A to B, run and gun a few targets, or reach a pallet earlier.

Im not saying pig doesn't deserve some love, that her kit shouldn't be less rng. But wraith is so absuable atm, that you can really only run super niche builds on him in order to have fun/win. hell even freddys stealth is better then wraiths, because atleast he's hidden past 32m.

Pig absolutely needs some work. so does myers, legion and well clown. otherwise its just addon changes for killers and pretty much every killer is viable on most maps.

I think Legion is the weakest and has the most boring power in the game.

Beg to differ.

With Rat Liver you are FASTER than survivors while you hold Of The Abyss, allowing for insane mindgames.

It's a must pick.