Is DS really problematic?
I rarely see it in my games when I play survivor (usually no obsession) and as a result people get tunneled to death and when I play killer I don't tunnel or have survivors "abuse" it so is it really an issue?
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Just because you might be Lucky to not find people abuse the perk doesn't mean it is fine.
Unbreakable+ ds has no counterplay. And no: walking a way and waste your time looking for another survivor isnt counterplay that's still a lose situation.
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When people use it for an anti-tunnel perk, it's fine
When people use it for 60 second invincibility (DS + Unbreakable or even with Soul Guard with it), that stuff gets annoying
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DS is problematic as it allows extremely aggressive survivor's play without risk.
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For an Anti-Tunnel Perk, the Killer isnt informed why the survivor they downed suddenly gets to jump off your back for free.
It just says, DS in the side of the screen and It does not teach the Killer what they should have done instead.
DS is a relic in Dead by Daylight now. And it didnt really change anything.
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Imagine complaining about DS in 2020. When literally killers have been handed crutches nonstop for 3 years straight.
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Survivor sided level over 9.000
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I play both. Try again.
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The only problem with DS is how people use it for 60 seconds of invincibility where they can do anything they want, and the Killer just has to watch and do jack-#########. As an anti-tunnel perk, its fine. But it shouldn't give Survivors 60 free seconds to do most of a generator, get fully healed, things like that.
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Ds, by itself, isn't that bad imo. It's very strong but carries the risk of it never being used- I have the perk equipped a lot and when I use the perk, have it actually give me a skill check about 3/10 times, and about half of those times is when I force it. I rarely get hit with the perk too.
However, when it's combined with Unbreakable is when it becomes problematic in my opinion. This is when it gives you Godmode. This is what desperately needs a change imo.
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Every other game I get someone forcing it on me or the killer, or trying to. Usually multiple someone's throughout the trial. That being said, I play just after peak hours, when (in my experience) the absolute tryhards come out. And by "tryhards" I mean "people that let their perks carry them and then complain if they lose because despite all their claims otherwise they genuinely think they should win just by equipping strong perks." DS is one of those perks on the survivor side, and it is easily the most obnoxious.
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Idk I'd rather 4 DSs than 2 OOOs
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it's only a problem because it's active as your repair gens, everything else is pretty much fine.
the devs should deactivate the perk when you spend more than like 3 seconds total repairing that would fix a lot of situations where this perk is unfair.
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I'd rather 2 OoO's over 2 Head On's.
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To each their own then, I guess
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IF anything is problematic (IMO it is not as problematic as people claim it to be, I almost never get hit by DS and when I get to use my DS, I am tunneled 99% of the time) than it is Unbreakable paired with DS.
Unbreakable is a more problematic Perk than DS because it is useless most of the time but can be a complete gamebreaker when used.
The biggest problem with DS is that not everyone is running it. Because when the Killer tunneled the first time and no DS was used, the Survivor is basically dead at this point because they will get tunneled again - which will reduce the chances of the remaining Survivors by a lot.
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Look, at least in one scenario I have an actual excuse as to why I lost.
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Nowhere near as problematic as people push it to be, but it is still an issue.
Especially the SG, UB, DS combo.
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Okay fair enough, but they can't use Head On if they're always exhausted >:)
*laughs in Mindbreaker*
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...
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and what is the counterplay to tunnelers if you don't have DS?
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Idk maybe know how to loop?
But this thread is about DS not tunneling.
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depends on how the survivors use it.
some tend to abuse the perk as an "get out of jail for free card" to unhook in your face / repair a gen in your face and get away with it.
others use it as an anti tunnel perk to get away from the hook and recover, which is where i dont think its getting problematic at all.
its those lose - lose situations that are BS and shouldnt be a thing.
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Let me know whenever you want a demonstration. Do you even own the game?
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Once the killer finds out you don't own ds in your perk build they will tunell the hell out of you cuz why not it's free kill for them so run ds always and stop caring if it's problematic or not it's perk given for a reason and I sure will put it in use it goes both ways tho killer can bring what they want and I'll give my best to survive the game gave both sides op perks and add ons and it's made with purpose
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I agree with @CustomerService. DS and all the perks are fine. Nerfing DS are wants and politicking by killers who want the easiest route to victory.
The game wouldn’t be fun if it was as plushy and simple as y’all want it to be.
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DS is weird one.
In its current state, it's meant to be an anti-tunnel perk. This in of itself is fine. Overly focusing on one survivor is not only not fun for the survivor, but also detrimental to your efficacy as a killer in many instances.
The issue is that it's a very powerful perk that can be used very aggressively.
if you are unhooked during Endgame collapse, for example, unless you royally screw up, then you essentially have won—the killer cannot pick you up and you can probably crawl to an exit gate if you're even remotely close.
Gotta go for a save? You still have time left on your DS, so go for the rescue. What's the killer gonna do? Slug you? Ha, that's what Unbreakable is for.
working on a gen? Don't bother leaving. if he grabs you, he gets DS-ed. Oh, you popped it and now he's running towards you? Oh no, you already used your Unbreakable! Hop in a locker! He grabs you, gets DS-ed.
And that's the thing, survivors don't just lie around doing nothing while DS is active. They do objectives. They have a full minute of being able to do whatever the hell they want with little to no consequence. The most a killer can do is slug you, and that takes time away from the killer with al l the time they take chasing you—time your team is also spending doing objectives. And the time he spent slugging you is effectively pointless if you have Unbreakable.
You're a killer that managed to get downs very quickly? Nope, you're a filthy tunneller who somehow managed to tunnel 3 survivors at once according to their still active DS.
It's an anti-tunnel perk, yet it puts the killer in a lose-lose situation regardless of what they do. Just one with DS-Unbreakable (the infamous duo) is annoying, but an entire team of it? It's just hell to face. With 60 secs on each, that's potentially 240 seconds of invulnerability. It would take just 400 secs for one survivor to do each gen one by one. Are you seeing the problem here?
TL:DR
DS's use as an anti-tunnel perk is fine. The problem is how aggressively it can be used and how it can punish killers even if they don't tunnel.
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Mindbreaker laughs at you for running it.
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When it works as an anti tunnel perk DS is fine, no complaints here, but when it's used aggressively and basically waved in the killers face that they can't do anything for 60 seconds then it becomes problematic. Paired up with Unbreakable or even Soul Guard makes it even worse.
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Only in SWF
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jokes on you i get a hell of a lot of value from it :D
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It's function is fine. The problem is that when Unbreakable is used with it it allows the survivor to act like a complete moron and still be safe.
Seeing a survivor get unhooked and run straight to a gen with me nearby, not even attempting to heal or run, because they know full no matter what I do they now have a free health state no matter wether I slug them or down them and pick them up. I'm not one of those "boo hoo survivors arent scared of me" types. But that type of gameplay should not be rewarded aswell as it currently is by these perks.
DS allows survivors to play too bold and make bad plays with no penalty. In my opinion non DS users are inherently better players because they have to actually play around the killer seriously. They don't have a "no matter what you do here I win" button. DS users might get better results and more escapes, but they didn't really earn them because the killer would have been punished for punishing their bad plays.
If DS were truly anti-tunnel I would never proc it. Because I outright refuse to hook the same survivor twice. Partly because of DS but partly because I want the match to be fun. Slugging a bad play? Sure, but not hooking.
I regularly get hit by DS by healthy survivors after hooking someone else, and in some cases this has snowballed into a loss. Simply because i played well.
It's not fair.
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Share not our secrets, brother. Lest they seek to destroy our newfound stengths.
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It's not when there are far bigger problems that do not involve perks. Like built-in mechanics which are unlimited and have no downside for how exploitive they can be used.
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ds is badly designed and everybody knows how to fix it: remove its timer, make it inactivate when survivor fully healed or when survivor starts doing gens. BUT bhvr thinks its ok to let SWF abuse it to rush gens and end games in 3, 4 mins...
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I would also add that there should always be an obsession regardless of perks. Then a group of survivors can opt to not take DS at all and not give a signal to the killer they have a free pass to tunnel at will.
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Tbh Mori can only be actived when the survivor got hooked twice, and if the killer hits you without hooking someone else (tunneling) Mori won't activate.
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You do know it got heavily buffed?
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Bruh it sounds like you have not played the game in three years
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What gives you that impression?
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