undying turns survivors into potatoes
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That's with the hope that goes ruin and undying combo actually works as somebody who runs Undying + haunted grounds a lot I could tell you I have had way more instances where undying gets destroyed first then when haunted ground triggers multiple times.
Undying will always remain a gamble perk sometimes it actually protect the totem sometimes it's the first thing to go and when that happens you could possibly lose your other totem and essentially lose two perks within a very short time of the match beginning.
My problem when people normally discussed the undying ruin combo is that they usually jump to the worst case scenario for the survivors despite the fact that that's not always the case.
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Eh, not really. There's a 50% chance that the hex totem you cleanse is Undying and considering how 90% of the time you'll spawn within 16 meters of a dull (or sometime a Hex if the spawn system bones the killer) thats not a big deal. I also see the auira reveal as a positive as it means the killer either has to drop a chase to stop me giving my teammates more room to breathe or just bite the bullet and let it happen. There's only 3 or 4 killers that can even do anything to stop you provided they're a decent distance away or only see you as the aura fades out.
I think if a few more survivors picked up Small Game complains about Ruin/Undying would fall through the floor and we'd see more killers using Corrupt again.
I'll add also that I've never seen a killer a chase to defend a dull totem. And this works against them because if they don't keep track of how many dulls they see being cleansed they can lose their hexes sooner than they're expecting.
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A git gud is in order.
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Honestly DS is not bad. When I use it I still never "use" it. Most killers just leave you slugged for 90 seconds. It's not even game ending to eat ds. I eat the ds and down the survivor again, it's not hard. Mind games are my strong suit. DS is for tunneling killers now since they gave it a time limit. Try going after the one who unhooked them. BT is required because camping STILL exists. If you get had by BT it's your fault, don't attack the person unhooked go for the savior. It lasts 15 seconds don't be so dramatic. DH can be baited, or you miss ONE swing and they get to a pallet or something. Big whoop. Try mind gaming. Unbreakable is situational again when I use it I never actually "use" it. But if you leave someone slugged that long they deserve to get back up, they are playing the same game you are remember. Being left on the ground because some snowflake killer won't just eat a ds isn't fun. Killers are acting like this isn't the easiest they've ever had it. DS used to be forever and BT used to be for both players. DH is severely punished by lag and will often leave a player moving slightly faster on the ground exhausted. Unbreakable only is usable once. Even if all four use these perks with some tactics you can just as easily counter them or go after the unhooked and not the one already injured. Some of y'all need to grow a pair while the real killers are talking. We have a surplus of ######### survivors and its hunting season.
TLDR: Git gud?
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here is why its a big deal:
1) you have no idea Undying is in effect and are therefore not aware that your aura is currently being revealed to the Killer. You just spawned in and decided to touch a Dull Totem standing around - you dont know which Killer it is or that Ruin is even a thing, therefore you also have no idea that Undying is even a possibility.
2) the Killer gets an immadiate target right after the game started
this leads to the Killer getting his first chase basicall immediately on a Survivor who not only doesnt expect the Killer to know about him, but is usually also quite outpositioned and has no idea where stuff for chases is.
Otz made a really good example of this when he played Leatherface on The Game. He just spawned and started walking around the map when he suddenly saw a Megs aura. So he went to her location and acted like he was merely passing through the room, to keep the illusion for Meg that he didnt know about her - and 5 seconds later Megan (who was not only horribly outpositioned due to her trying to avoid Killer contact with stealth, but also completely unaware of the fact that Otz was actually targeting her) gets a chainsaw shoved in her face, which won him the game basically right then and there, as he could start his snowball game immediately.
this Meg had no chance to know he had Undying and therefore also no chance to act accordingly.
plus Ruin and Tinkerer made sure that he had a top tier gen defense, so while he was able to push his objective very easily the Survivors objective was incredibly hard to do, as they needed to take care of Ruin Undying first (every time risking getting chased next thanks to the aura reveal of course) and only then were able to touch the gens reliably.
so while that perk combo basically puts the Survivors objective to a halt (or at the very least tremendously increases the time it takes for it to be completed, while also making it extremely risky to do so) it also allows the Killer to get their objective started off pretty much instantly.
you dont need to be a good Killer to consistantly stomp Survivors when using this perk combo.
and if you are a good Killer its basically a free win every game you play.
the only way to counter this build reliably is by playing in an optimal 4 man SWF. Which means that anyone who isnt gets stomped. Which simply isnt healthy for this game.
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=). Months that i say the game is killer sided, deeply killer sided, killer mains came to argue that the game is survivors sided. I'm happy to see a guy (i expect a good killer) saying that as a killer every game are ez win.
This game became unplayable as a survivor. Everything is broken, killers have too many way to counter eveything we rely on to survive.
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This is because you are a bad killer who doesn't know how to apply pressure. I've never lost a game with Ruin + Undying. By the time they even have the opportunity to cleanse both totems, they've already lost.
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Ah, Detectives Hunch.. You will never NOT be useful..
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Anyone who isnt an idiot would treat the totems like those perks are active. Same with BBQ or killers with DS.
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I've started running DH to counter the meta, it works often, if you're one of the survivors that struggle with Totems you should give Detective's hunch a shot, combining it with inner strength is underatted
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. As I said countless times the only thing Undying really needs is there have the Aura reading taken away and given to something like thrill of the hunt instead.
Undying becomes a gamble passive protection that you don't have to invest too much time into if you have to hope you're lucky
Thrill of the hunt gets turned into more of an active protection system this will give you a lot at all tools to actually stop people from destroying the totems but you have to put in the work to fully protect them
Post edited by Volfawott on2 -
you do know some players have totem locations memorized?
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All so says alot about a players ability to pressure gens and win chases if they need to count on undying to win lol both sides are potatoes
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luckily the perk reveals anyone near a totem aswell, so you dont even have to be aware of a totems presence to get revealed
and BBQ has a huge tell when it gets activated, while also being a lot easier to dodge (as you arent forced to get revealed by it in order to be able to win, while undying literally forces you to reveal yourself with totems).
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i fully agree.
it would be so much more balanced without the aura reveal - or at the VERY least they should limit the aura reveal to Hex totems only.
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Just do the bones.
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Then everybody in that case absolutely sucks in chases.
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Before undying:
After undying:
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Undying+Ruin is pretty good detector of potato survivors who have zero macro skill and all they've learnt is running in circles and holding M1 which was still enough to reach red ranks.
If survivors are dumb, they're going to throw all their resources for desperate attempts to break hex combo instead of spreading and doing generators, remembering locations of totems and destroying them whenever killer is unable to protect them - carrying survivor to hook, chasing somebody on the other side of the map and so on.
Using Undying&Ruin combo isn't a guaranteed victory. It's just detects ######### survivors and gives them reality check. Once you get people who have brains to do totem when you can't do anything to defend itl, unless you abandon everything you did, thus wasting more resources than survivors do, you'll abandon this combo because you'll end up without 2 perks against good survivors.
Oh, and also:
- Survivors have a very good chance of finding and destroying totems in the first 30 seconds of the game. I once had a game where Undying and ruin popped in first minute within 10 second gap.
- You have to turn and look around every few seconds in order not to miss Undying aura proc because if you miss it - say goodbye to totems.
- If totems don't spawn nearby, combo's screwed
- Undying dies first with 50% chance.
This combo surely shouldn't be nerfed
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I do too. I keep small game just for the crappy indoors maps. I'm talking about the survivors who don't have them memorised and just run to the basic wall tiles and ignore trees/rocks.
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“if I get it to 70% and win the chase...”
... you’ll be back to a 0% done generator. And you might win the chase, I don’t know how you play. 99% of randoms have never won any chase and they couldn’t win a chase even if they followed a step by step video tutorial.
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I can't even tell you how many times I get 3+ kills because I sometimes just bring thrill of the hunt when I'm playing for bps only. Survivors will just murder themselves over and over, one after the other, to blow it up... Even when its obviously not ruin from the start, and obviously not dh or lullaby later on.... They see a lit totem, and it's like their brains jumped down the hatch without them.
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It's kind of funny they seem to always cleanse my undying first somehow. I usually still win but it's annoying
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thats because you play vs bad survivors
when i use the combo my ruin is gone in 1 minute or they cleanse all normal totems and then its gone aswell
it literary takes 1 perk out of 16 or 1 item to take down this combo
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That's 99'99999999999% of survivors in the game.
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Kill rate was over 65% before undiying, and that include swf. Can”t imagine a reason why this perk in on the game.
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I mean, this. IF you happen to win the chase, by the time you get back to the gen that was about to pop it's ussually just about gone.
I check for ruin by tapping a gen at the start of a match, but if I know the killer is chasing someone or otherwise busy enough that I could get the Gen done, I'll do it. Otherwise these people don't seem to realize just how quickly the gens regress if you get pushed off.
Sure, if you dont have totem spawns memorized like I do (aside from indoor or freshly updated maps) or you see another teammate obviously looking for totems you shouldn't be looking for the totems, you should be pressuring gens, but if no one is looking for totems (and in anything other than a 4 man you don't know if they are) its almost just as much wasted time to be close to completing a generator just for a tinkerer killer to come push you off of it or catch you if they have a one shot ability, the latter being worse if no one knows about your gen so you get to sit on the hook next to it and watch the time you spent on it regress to nothing.
That said I don't mind the combo, but to downplay it's viability is disingenuous.
Can't wait for that new perk to come out that increases your lunge by 100% when we already have issues with hits not feeling fair and latency. 🙄
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2 people do a gen in a little over a minute
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In a couple months it will be at 120% rate. We are going to have to include a fifth survivor in. We’ll be owing kills at that point.
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