Why does hatch still spawn if no gens are done?
It doesn't make sense. It only rewards the last person for failure. I get that the argument for the hatch is that you can be screwed by bad teammates. I get it. ######### teammates exist and I get them all the time when I play survivor. But if not a single gen was completed then none of the survivors deserves to escape. Nobody got anything done so why reward them? Even with bad teammates you should be able to at least finish one generator.
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It always spawns when there's 1 remaining survivor, simple as that.
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So that the game can end in less than 5 minutes if you didn't bring Whispers.
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I mean do you want the match to go on indefinitely if the survivor is solid snake? Just slug the third and get over it.
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Fair point actually. The last person would just hide which would get annoying. I still don't think anyone deserves to escape in a scenario where no gens were completed but eh I guess that's reason enough. Just another demonstration of bad game design I suppose :/
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That’s the common strategy, but the person slugged will still eventually die anyways and the hatch will still open. It’s a band aid, not a real cure for the problem. (Not that I personally see a problem in the hatch.)
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I was assuming EGC triggers after the 3rd person dies.
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This is such a bizarre opinion..
why does the last survivor not deserve to escape? It’s a game, in many cases played by casual players just for fun. You don’t need to deserve to escape/get a kill. Most times it’s very luck depended how the match plays out in the first place.
i can understand how this is frustrating when you go for killer adepts, but those survs are still all actual people just playing a game to have a fun time. Maybe that surv was just doing a daily to escape and is super happy it finally worked even though they got matched with survs under their skill level for many matches (which happens very often).
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I mean, maybe you dont deserve to kill them? Maybe they were the one decent Survivor you were not able to catch, while the other 3 were Potatoes?
Even if they escape, you clearly won... The focus on the 4K is way too big in this community.
But yeah, it is mainly to give an end to the match. If you were unlucky, that guy would just stealth around which would force Killers to use Whispers in every game, because otherwise there might be situations where the Survivor will just hide forever.
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It fits the lore; the entity feeds on hope, if the hatch didn't spawn it would be a hopeless situation.
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Where's my button "kill one survivor" that activates if all four of them are still alive during EGC then?
Hatch is fine, but this argument is ridiculous.
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It’s not a button. But you can facecamp, some killers can make it easier like Doc or Bubba, there is Rancor, there are Moris.
Hatch is fine. Those mechanics I listed are fine. But this is a game and it’s not all about skill or who deserves to escape or who deserves to get a kill.
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That’s not a very fair statement. As a solo survivor I’ve found myself as the last one left alive being the victim of dumb dumb teammates.
I’m running around doing “damage control”: unhooking, healing slugs, taking a protection hit to try and stop a killer tunnelling someone to death, trying to shake the killer off my damn butt, trying to get rid of damn Ruin so our gens stop damn regressing every time the killer chases us off when Tinkerer procs, and before I know it everyone is dead, no gens are done, and I’m the only one left despite working my damn butt off with nothing to show for it. At least there’s a 50/50 chance I might get the Hatch so that those dumb teammates haven’t completely condemned me to total Hell.
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If you get a 3K with 5 gens left that means you already won.... By far. At that point let's all move on to next match
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The introduction of closable hatch and EGC was actually good game design and a significant improvement to the former solution (no hatch until at least two gens were done + hatch standoff). Sure the last surv does not "deserve" to get out, but their chances are already slim in this situation. Since they cannot know where the hatch will open (it is not visible before), they have to be lucky to find it before the killer. But the killer is faster and does not need to hide, so the odds are heavily on the killer.
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One could argue that if you get 3 kills with no gen done, the game was unbalanced from the begining, because you got matched with players way below your skill level. So you got an unfairly easy match and still are sour about one escaping?
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Facecamping is about skill if you don't play Bubba or Doc.
Good sweatsquad is still able to unhook a survivor in front of you, and counterplaying their moves requires a lot of skill.
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uhm. So you agree with certain killers and not against a sweatsquad you actually can secure a kill easily even when undeserved?
but can you also tell me where that button to escape for the last survivor is when no gens were done? As far as I know they still need to find hatch before the killer while not being found by the killer.
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Like others said above hatch mitigates the problem where you have the last survivor just actively hiding and the killer unable to find them in a reasonable amount of time. It allows the game to go into sudden death rather than a dragged out stalemate with just one survivor. (You can still get the stalemates with two survivors who both hide waiting for the other to die so the hatch opens but that situation is rarer than the sole survivor one and doesn’t last quite as long since it takes less time to find one of two hiding survivors than it does to find a lone hider.)
That being said there are three minor things I don’t like about hatch
- Escaping by hatch shouldn’t reward the same 5000 points that escaping out a gate does. Survivors should be encouraged to only use the hatch as a last resort, not as a main goal. Hatch should probably only score 2500 points instead of the 5000, it would be a disincentive against survivors simply hiding for the hatch, especially for players (like me) who play to get the highest endgame score. Make hatch the consolation prize, not the main goal, for the last survivor or two.
- Keys allowing multiple survivors to escape with a single key use is too swingy. Fortunately it doesn’t happen that often but when it does it’s a massive point swing with just one item, something like 10-15k points worth when two or three survivors escape with a single key. A key should open the hatch for the key user and close it behind them. (And before someone shouts “what about moris” the red mori likewise is too swingy because it allows multiple early kills but I’ll leave details out of it since this thread is about the hatch and moris aren’t really related to that.)
- As I mentioned above you can still get a dragged out stalemate with two hiding survivors hoping for hatch. To mitigate that issue the game should probably have a timer of, say, five minutes where if neither side scores any points for that time then the endgame collapse automatically starts. Five minutes is plenty of time for either a survivor to work on a gen or a chase to start, if the game is stalled that long with no points being scored then it’s turned into a dull stalemate and a sudden death timer would move things along so the game could end reasonably quickly.
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I'm playing in red ranks and if it came to EGC facecamping against 4 men - it is always a sweatsquad. Also, you still need to catch the survivor you are going to camp. So, if you are a pure potato - facecamping won't save you. Unlike the hatch that can just pop under your feet. I managed to do some nasty escapes like that when I played survivor.
Ok, let's make that button disabling if survivors will find it first, I don't mind.
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Tbh I don’t even understand your problem with my argument in the first place. You are asking where your ‚button to kill in egc‘ is when I never implied that there is such a mechanic for killers.
and the argument that it’s always a sweatsquad just because you are red rank is ridiculous. It is not.
i also never said you get a kill gifted as an inexperienced killer against a 4man sweatsquad on comms. Neither did anyone say an inexperienced survivor gets a free escape against a red rank killer.
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It is terrible game design. All it does is reward that Claudette that did nothing the whole game, will do nothing, and continues to do nothing while you get chased until the end of time.
Because she’s expecting the hatch. I would remove the hatch out of the game altogether.
You don’t play optimally you die.
Then again, if the death rate now is 80% I’m guessing without the trash bags getting hatch it’d go up to 100%.
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It isn't a reward for the Survivor. It is to keep the show interesting for the Entity. The hatch assures that there is still hope, even if faint. The Entity wants the game to be a white knuckle event until the very end, i.e. a reason to keep that last Survivor running.
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Now I'm unsure if you read my whole post, but let me rephrase a bit of what I said actually. If the team did screw all the whole game and didn't finish one gen, then the last person doesn't deserve to have such a potentially super easy escape. It should be really hard for them to earn their escape. The hatch itself is just a 50/50 chance more or less. I'm fine with the last person getting the hatch in most cases. Hell I'll even give it to the last person on the not so rare occasion. But what I'm trying to say here is that there should be a requirement where hatch doesn't spawn at the end unless at least one gen is finished. If one person is left and 5 gens are still up something different should happen that would make it a lot harder for that person to escape. Why? Because they didn't contribute any work towards the survivors main goal. None of them did. It's easy to overlook but I'm only talking about a very specific scenario.
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Yeah but there will always be scenarios were that one last survivor wasn’t as bad as you might think.
you are not considering DCs or teammates actually trolling one survivor, luring the killer constantly to them and going down like flys themselves. Then there are killers that use Ruin+Undying+Tinkerer and the last survivor may be too busy destroying all totems and making every hook rescue and healing etc. while constantly bringing gens to over 70 percent. You can’t say that that survivor deserves to get killed. And it is way too complicated too determine what exactly caused this scenario of 1 surv left with 5 gens to go.
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Have you ever camped or used NOED after all gens were done?
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You're right. These are even more niche scenarios and at this point everything else just comes down to bad game design and the hatch being a bandaid fix. The last person could still be someone who tried their absolute best and just was highly, HIGHLY unlucky to not finish one gen due to circumstances, or it could be a Blendette. But I'm not necessarily saying the last person deserves to die. It's not like the killer has them dead yet so it would be unfair if they were just guaranteed to be handed the free kill. It may sound like that's what I'm implying, which is my own fault for not being more explanatory in my original post, but I'm not. BUT it should be harder for them to escape than the 50/50 chance of hatch and then another 50/50 chance of egc doors if they still can't manage to win the first coin flip and again I say this with only the 5 gens up scenario in mind.
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Fair enough. But depending on Killer the chances are not 50/50 and slightly more killer sided. But definitely still very luck based. And then we have those cool gate placements that may even change the chances to any side...
as a proud potatoe on both sides I can confirm that it’s really rare for a potatoe to get the hatch. On both sides. Even though I know most hatch spawn points.
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Yep definitely. Knowing hatch spawns does tilt the favors a bit. Not only that but the killer gets to patrol for it with impunity. It's still ultimately a gamble though so yea. Agreed.
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Hatch spawning no matter what is a silver lining for the solo experience. Bad team? You at least have SOME chance to escape despite your lack of luck in the teammate roll. I feel like it is necessary to make solo queue a bit more bearable.
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The hatch mechanic exists primarily to prevent a survivor from getting ######### by an incompetent team. I think we can all agree that this sucks in any team game. It's not a perfect mechanic by any means, but this is its primary purpose.
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So, what you're suggesting is that at least one gen has to be done in order for hatch to be visible so, in the scenario where there's one person alive and five gens up, that person should have to sneak around and do one gen before jumping in the hatch?
If so, I don't think that's totally unreasonable, though I also don't have a problem with the way it is now.
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I mean yea. That's one idea although I wouldn't be opposed to something a little more creative either. Something that would leave out the option for the survivor to hide. Due to current circumstances and game design though maybe now might not be the best time.
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