If only BHVR had some sort of Player Test Build
I wish there were some way to test changes to the game to gather data about certain tweaks to gameplay you want to implement. If BHVR had some sort of Player Test Build server they could test the Bloodlust change without impacting the live game. Oh well, I guess some things can't be avoided...
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I don’t know about you man but I really wouldn’t want to play a ptb just to test out a bloodlust change.. also not really many people play the PtB. IMO this makes the most sense to grab the most accurate data. Straight from the source but some people rather cry about 2 days without bloodlust.
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Well if consoles could participate in a theoretical PTB that would probably help too.
but really I wouldn’t want anything to do with it either way.
sounds like a good weekend to play something else. Unless of course you’re a survivor main.
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I had the same thought, but let's be real, queue times as killer are usually horrible as is in the PTB and after 36-48 hours it seems that most people just go back to the live version anyways
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Lemme get this straight. You are saying they shouldn't TEST things with a TEST server? I get that Bloodlust change doesn't matter to you like how if someone doesn't care about a new feature or killer won't play the new PTB. But that doesn't mean you test on a live game server. You test on the TEST server that's what it's there to do.
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The intention of it being on the live build is to get more data than on the PTB.
- Only a small friction of people play the PTB which would result in a small pool of data being collected.
- Matchmaking has also been disabled on the PTB.
- A PTB is usually done to test multiple things, so this could have potentially caused other things to not be as tested as much.
The data being collected specifically is intended for Bloodlust and that's the main intention - having it on a PTB with other factors would cause that it's not a live enviornment test, which is a important part of testing. Hence why things like MMR and Hit Validation were enabled on the live build and not PTB.
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The reason PTB servers have high killer cue times is because they usually use it to test new killers. With a game mechanic PTB it would bring survivor mains too. So they can see how no bloodlust affects their gameplay.
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Pretty much exactly what this mod said. Just gotta use your brain and think from the devs side for a bit.
Because all you are doing right now is trying to nitpick at technicalitys
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So why have a PTB at all? The new killer and perks are beholden to those same critea. Small fractions of playerbase, matchmaking? and the multiple test items muddy the results as well (if a killer is weak but has strong perks or vice-versa) so how is this different or should they not use a test server ever?
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A whole chapter is being tested on the PTB.
Turning off Bloodlust, enabling MMR and Hit validation are complete different things than a chapter being tested to see how the killer and survivor (perks) work.
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It's not a technicality. I am saying that's what a PTB is expressly for. If bloodlust is important to someone they will test it on the PTB. If they don't think it's important they won't participate. How is that different from any other aspect of the game that the Devs test with the PTB? Is a new Killer not important enough to gameplay to "Test" on the live servers with thousands more players to give better data with? I mean what are we saying here?
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So, why not wait to implement No bloodlust during a chapter? If it's a cost/benefit analysis issue (Running a server cost versus getting gameplay data analytics) why not hold off or bundle it with chapter 18's test?
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As i've said above why is this different than testing a chapter? The analytics are the same. New killers and perks are tested this way why is it less or more important to test THEM that way?
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As others have said, not many people would probably play a PTB just to test this out. Like, when a new Chapter is about to release, I am on a PTB, but only for 1 evening. Same for Midchapter. Because more is not interesting for me.
I would honestly not download the PTB just to check out a Bloodlust-Test. It does not hurt anybody to test this on the weekend.
Like, I did not notice it at all during my games. So for me, it is like I am playing normally (played only Killer so far).
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Because they only want data when Bloodlust is turned off in the live enviornment. Just for Bloodlust. Only that.
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Well their only going to get a small friction of people testing Bloodlust, all the killers are just not going to play for the weekend. At least the ones needed for high rank games. I can play another game for the weekend - that's no problem. I'll see ya'll Monday.
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Okay, with that logic why not test each new perk or mechanic or killer or survivor live, soley and without the encompassing chapter?
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A legitimate question here: Why even announce the disabling of it ahead of time?
MMR data gathering was being done "behind the scenes" well before it was announced as such, so it's not like such a test would be unprecedented. And Bloodlust is a mechanism that, frankly, if it had been removed for a weekend, or even longer -- let's say a week or two -- most, if not all players, wouldn't have even noticed it not being present (I likely wouldn't have). The few who might have -- well, you would have had a couple of forum posts titled "Is Bloodlust bugged?", followed by most people assuming it WAS a bug, like the countless other bugs we run into on a regular basis in the game anyway. People would have continued to play "normally" and you could have had a greater amount of data to look at with no compromising of what was being studied.
Instead, the announcement of the removal has already tainted the results -- you'll see people playing "differently" knowing it's not in play. It may not be a lot of variation, but that variation WILL be present, where it wouldn't have been if this test had been done without announcing it. That variation might be killers dropping chases they wouldn't have before, people playing different killers than they would normally play, some people not playing killer at all, survivors utilizing specific loops more often than they wouldn't have otherwise, survivors burning specific map offerings, etc. -- ALL of those potential actions that could taint the data would have been avoided if this test had been done behind the scenes and not publically, which -- my opinion only, obviously -- means that this is a lost opportunity for data that would have been more accurate than what you'll actually be getting over the weekend.
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Because they belong together in a chapter and it wouldn't make sense testing each perk individually? Chapter are prepared together, like a bundle and the way they work with the game is done in a bundle. There is a difference between testing a mechanic like Bloodlust, that affects every killer and testing a chapter that only really changes anything if the killer or/and perks are being used by people.
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What if most killer took your stance? What data will they gather then? If most killers see it as a detriment and stop playing less accurate data is gathered. With a PTB you opt in to test a feature. The live server is the live game. They are messing with a product you have already bought.
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I'm afraid I have no direct answer to this - they made the decision to share this ahead of time, but this is feedback I'll be noting down definitely.
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Decisive Strike is a perk but even if a survivor doesn't have the perk it's very existence make the killer change strategy. This gameplay change fundamentally changes how all killers play and thus how all survivors play (jumping in a locker after being unhooked to bluff decisive). I suggest that a mechanical change like Bloodlust is such a material change to the way the game is played by some killers and survivors that it should be tested on a test server that people opt into rather than change the live game.
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Thank you for the quick response and for passing that on.
IMO, the best test subjects are the ones who don't know they're being tested, lol.
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It's too late for that now, but you can definitely write a thread in feedback and suggestions for any future events like this.
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If you’re reliant on BL you’re bad at chases. Get better at them or drop them if they’re time consuming. BL is an outdated bandaid the devs added to -temporarily- fix the issues with the giant maps and god loops that -used- to exist.
No one is going to download the game all over again at least twice to play without BL and give feedback.
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Because everything that goes live after a PTB is perfectly functioning and isn't riddled with bugs. Good job PC fats.
PTB is a dick measuring contest for PC mustards and nothing more. This is a step in the right direction for having real results.
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yes a vast majority of killer players are simply going to stop playing the game because a mechanic that barely helps good players isn’t available to them. You’re spot on there, champ.
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Yeah, you don't have to DL the game again, just the patch. Secondly I am not making an anti "Get Gud" argument. I am making a "We don't know what the removal will affect" argument. Like have you thought about the fact that now Beast of Prey can't activate? No? Because no one uses it right? But if you go into a PTB thinking "Huh I wonder what I can test, oh yeah, beast of prey!" You could gather data.
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I mean, when they made things that hurt survivors in PTB they promised to not play until it was changed. Even if the change is only percieved as hurting survivor and materially changed very little. Why do you think opening day killers invariably get nerfed? Why would the killer attitude be different?
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You have to sit through downloads when transitioning to and from the PTB. Also, who the absolute ######### runs beast of prey? Literally a waste of a perk slot. No one uses it and hopefully it gets reworked when BL is removed in the future.
It’s being tested on the live server because it’s the best place to test it. I hope to see more small changes like this tested every so often on the live servers personally.
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What are you even comparing? The most recent PTB has one of the most easily bullied killers they’ve made recently with all the actual decent perks being on the survivors side. Either way quitting because an outdated mechanic that barely does anything now is being turned off for a bit is a bit dumb.
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Right. So you don't see how that's an issue. How about "Testing" on live servers the removal of wiggle on the killer's shoulder. I mean only a bad killer tries to take a survivor to a far hook so I mean it wouldn't really change anything but for bad killers. You don't forsee an issue there? How about removing the red stain? Only bad killers don't know how to hide it as they go around a corner. You don't see a problem with "Testing" that on a live server do you?
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Ok so let’s talk about the similarities between the wiggle mechanic and BL mechanic. I’m happy to. So, wiggling is actually very vital to the game. Without it killers such as trapper, hag, billy, Bubba, and Myers could simply play the basement every game. There’s also the mechanic of saboing hooks and taking protection hits to try and assist your teammate in wiggling free. Perks that affect wiggling are Agitation, Mad Grit, and Iron Grasp. On survivor side there’s flip flop, Boil Over, and Breakout. All perks people actually use unlike Beast of Prey. Wiggling is meant to only keep the killer from taking you wherever they want. Wiggling free is actually really rare.
BL gives you a speed boost for over committing to a chase and the lack of the mechanic doesn’t completely alter the game. They aren’t comparable in any way whatsoever. Great try though.
Things they could temporarily tests would be things that don’t completely change the game similarly to how not having bloodlust wouldn’t completely change it. Reducing the DS timer or small changes to meta perks on both sides to see how it shifts things for those few days. Slightly reducing the speed boost on hit for survivors could be more comparable to the BL tests.
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Beast of Prey was the only thing I could think of but that isn't the only thing it affects. How about the fence loops at Haddonfield or the main farm house in Thompson's? How do long loops affect BL?
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You don’t need BL for either of those. There’s a whopping 3 killers in the game with no direct chase shortening abilities. Haddonfield is a broken map. Everyone knows it, but it doesn’t have any infinites and most pallets are unsafe. BL was introduced as a bandaid to counter infinites. BL in the current state of the game is rewarding killers for over committing to chases. Haddonfield is a bad map. You don’t need BL to catch survivors on it.
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