Stealth is unrewarded
Just as I see a new wave of users trying to motivate survivors to play stealthy, the game doesn't at all.
Even though I'm not a P3 Claudette main, I still enjoy playing in a stealthy way using perks as Calm Spirit, Iron Will, Fixated and Lightweight. When I was in lower ranks, I even managed to survive some games without even getting chased once. Problem? Playing stealthy implies you need to move unnoticed (unless you're going against Nurse). Many times moving to the corners of the map is useful while the killer looks for you near the generator. If you evade the killer once, or maybe twice, they will start to look much more closer. Although you do waste their time, you actually barely get any points if you're not being chased.
For example, a few days ago I was attempting Adept Zarina. The Bubba I went against wasn't really a pro gamer, and he fell for my Red Herring tricks every time, and I managed to only get chased once. What followed me getting the achievement was a depip, because the game can't know if I actually do anything to the killer. Same thing happened to me a couple times back when I was an Urban Evasion gamer.
In conclusion; the game doesn't actually reward stealth, at least less far than a succesful chase. Not to also count the mANY salty killers that just outright call people with this types of playstyles scaredycats. Stealth is viable, but it won't be anyone's main strategy without the support of many people.
Comments
-
I think the problem with playing stealthy is that you are not being hooked. If your teammates are on second and death hook, you should probably get hooked on purpose to relieve pressure off them. At least going into a chase delays a death.
40 -
^^^^^^^^^^^this
stealth as a survivor is an indirect sandbag thats why its not rewarded
34 -
That's something I hadn't thought about. Ty for the tip!
6 -
Stealth is rewarded, in that you don't die?
Recently I had a nurse of all things complaining I was hiding from her. It was pretty obnoxious because she tried to get one of the other survivors to rat me out after I had not been hooked all game. I literally saved this meg, and then she brought the nurse over to me using bond.
Luckily, I brought in a key and dipped out; right in the nurses face too.
You think running out and letting the nurse chase me for free would relieve pressure from my teammates? I doubt it.
0 -
even though its rare, escaping and depiping is possible lol. Happened to me a couple times
1 -
I have been playing long enough pips don't matter to me, the only wins are escapes in my books.
Stealth is optimal in DBD. If the killer can't find you at the generator you are working at, that's wasting just as much time as being chased by them, and not using any pallets to boot. You have no obligation to sacrifice yourself for your team in solo Q. Often the best play in a losing game is to wait for hatch or stand on a door. I had a game a while back where the team was 3 man slugged like 40 seconds into the game at 5 gens left, and I straight up just let them all die and took the hatch. I knew the gens were not going to be done that game.
The best stealth perk in the game is spine chill, and probably fixated after that. And if you have fixated you might as well use sprint burst too. As someone who played predominately stealth killers until recently, it always blows my mind survivors will have full stealth builds but not the information when to use them. I will just walk straight up and make the entire build worthless.
2 -
Stealth has its place against some Killers like Oni, Plague and Myers where you can wait out their powers.
But in general its better to be more productive and get chased. Than be less productive but not get chased
1 -
Ironically, a horror survival game where stealth is heavily punished.
13 -
@DaKnight I had a Meg do the same to me with a Freddy. He couldn't find me so he picked her up and kept dropping her so that she could bring him to me and she did. Then to top it all off they thought that they were actually good at the end game chat.
Imagine being so desperate to find someone that you use another survivor to find them now that's sad, to me at least lol.
2 -
Devs have been nerfing stealth for a long time. Their reasoning is that they want the main aspect of the game to be chases and "meaningful interaction" between survivors killers which stealth technically isn't (even though they made Spirit wheres the interaction there lololol).
2 -
Stealth is a viable and important part of DbD survivor play. You are under no obligation to make a killers job easier by letting them get into chase. You can be productive and while being stealthy. The one point I will agree with is sometimes you need to take the heat to keep someone else in the game. I hate the solo Q mentality of, the games not going well, let me hide andl just wait on hatch. To me that is not stealth, that's just garbage, takes no skill and shows no teamwork. The game would be better without you in it.
5 -
Stealth sometimes can be viable but it is always going to be circumstantial and often a detriment when being too stubborn to realize when to play stealthy and when not to.
Killers like doctor and legion exist, perks like infectious bbq stridor whispers exist, addons like all seeing snd sratched mirror and amandas letter exist, boldness is a category for a reason and i remember when the Evader emblem was broken it would actually punish you FOR being stealthy and you couldnt pip because you hid too well all game.
Stealth is not a superior way to play the game becauase of how the way the game is designed in the first place. It is a circumstantial option. There are simply games where the circumstance is that you cant hide. And in disregard of that circumstance and trying to play stealthy anyway is what might actually get you found and hinder your team.
....I love that as a killer so please... keep doing that 😏
1 -
Never, and i mean never go full stealth. i dont mean this in a mean way or anything like that but always going full stealth will hurt your team just because the killer will be hooking the other 3 more often and as soon as the game becomes a 3v1 then its much easier on the killer especially if they have gen regression perks etc. as usually 1 person is on a hook and one is being chased meaning all the 3rd can do is save tbh. Having said that stealth can help, when it comes to the killer trying to slug in say Tier 3 myers or ONI in his power they can get alot of pressure with many downs so avoiding that can be game changing. But most of all if you are so use to stealth play then those same people tend to struggle in chases more and chases is the biggest thing to separate a rank 20-1. (personally i like being chased, most fun part of the game and when you do well you feel kinda good lol)
0 -
Ultimately, you should do what you find fun. But stealth is generally suboptimal for a few reasons:
- As others have said, your teammates accumulate hook states
- If/when you do get found, you're often really out of position and give a free hit
- It's simply better to stick gens
That being said, it's good to be stealthy to a point. My teammates and I often hide out the first minute to count lit totems and gather intel. It's also good to not hand a killer their chases. Make them look for you, but don't be so out of position that you give free hits.
2 -
The most effective use of stealth is to split in the beginning of the game while avoiding the killer. After that it's like Yords said, your hook state should be a resource for the team. If the same guys gets hooked 3 times, you lost a teammate, if 3 ppl have been hooked once, your team is good to go. Also stealth can be extremely damaging after unhooks. Not everyone runs Iron Will and most killers approach the hook if they do not have higher priorities. Remind that the chances of the killer finding your groaning injured teammate are higher if you both are hiding.
2 -
Playing stealth does nothing to help anyone. It forces the killer to tunnel the people who aren't playing stealth which leads you to having no teammates faster. Unless the killer is stubborn about finding you.
4 -
NOT! I play Claudette most of the time, I do the most gens, and I get the most saves. If I don't do the gens, or get the saves, either nobody else does or everyone rushes the hook like an idiot. Rushing the hook in mass is a great way to sandbag the entire team. When I do get chased and run the killer over the entire map for up to 5 minutes, maybe 1 gen gets done, if any at all. Maybe you should learn how to play the game properly?
0 -
what are you even talking about? "When I do get chased and run the killer over the entire map for up to 5 minutes" you clearly aren't playing stealth if this is what you are doing
1 -
If you don't understand what I said, you obviously don't know very much about the game. Even if you do play stealthy you will eventually be seen, thus the chase. It's very concerning that you either don't know this, or you didn't even consider it.
2 -
Also if you play immersive to the point where you do not work on Generators at all. To wait till the survivor is found/killed, and for the hatch to spawn. You are taking the game hostage (Dev's said it), and can be penalized (possibly banned) for doing it.
2 -
question in op's post isn't "why isn't running the killer around for 5 minutes rewarded" its also not "why isnt getting saves rewarded?" you are just overlooking the post this in reference to and insulting me
2 -
Why do you insist on being clueless? I specifically stated using stealth to achieve those goals, but sometimes you get caught. Is that so foreign to you? It shouldn't be, as that is what the game was designed around.
1 -
I adore using one stealth perk for hiding around the hook when a teammate is downed, and also for evading the killer! I also use really fast and helpful perks for me and my team, so maybe balance it out like that?
0 -
Not true, it is just not rewarded in contexts as it should be.
0 -
Sometimes you dislike one survivor more and want to make sure THAT ONE doesn't get out alive.
0 -
Stealth is usually a recourse more used against certain killers and overall by people who dont know how to prolong chases, which usually means less experience. For instance, stealth is good to use against Nurse and Spirit, but you can't have the mindset you will be able to use all the time, so you have to necessarily learn in this game how to prolong chases as well.
Some people can also use stealth on prolonged chases, by making the killer think they went one way and go to another (some perks like quick and quiet, dance with me and urban evasion help in this, but are not essential). Making them lose his trail. Stealth is not simply about never being found. People with less experience panic when they are found. If you think being found is not that big of a deal you won't dismiss stealth as useless.
0 -
False.
Really good survivors who can loop know when to be stealthy. Even with 3500 hours I sometimes lose survivors when they decide to stop running and play unpredictable and then hide somewhere. Or I spot someone, see scratch marks and they are just vanished. And they get rewarded because they don't get hooked. You have to play well to make stealth work but it's totally worth it if you can pull it off.
3 -
you don't use stealth to get 5 minute chases you're not making sense and you're insulting me for no reason just stop
1 -
I am not trying to insult you at all. You keep taking everything that I say out of context in an attempt to negate everything that I've said. If anything, it is you insulting me. Telling me to stop responding to your false statements is against the forum rules. The 5 minute chases was an example of what happens when I am being chased. It is not an example of me being stealthy.
0 -
Yes just what the game needs, more survivors hiding in corners and bushes doing nothing and stretching the game to 20-30 min
2 -
"Maybe you should learn how to play the game properly?"
this entire post
this is you insulting me for no reason.
you're trying to make the case make the case that stealth lets you do _________(fill in none stealth related objective here) and then you infer im an idiot for saying your not making sense. it stops being a stealth play when you get caught. nearly everything you've posted so far has been unwarranted insults and the rest is you trying to make the case for stealth being good by using non-stealth plays as examples.
2 -
So in answer to the OP, since you are referencing the fact that you depip despite surviving when playing immersed I think it's fair to reference the emblem system. The game does account for stealthy play there:
- 100 points: starting value
- 1 point per second: awarded for being in proximity to the Killer
- This value is affected by a distance multiplier:
- within 5 metres: x6.0
- within 10 metres: x2.2
- within 20 metres: x1.1
- within 30 metres: x0.5
- within 45 metres: x0.3
- within 64 metres: x0.1
- farther than 64 metres: x0.0
- This value is affected by a distance multiplier:
so if you are near the killer but not in chase then the closer the killer gets to you without initiating chase the more stealth points you are awarded. to get Silver emblem you need 380 points, gold is 560, Iri is 880. this means that baseline to get silver without ever getting a chase would be to stay within 5 meters of the killer for 47 seconds or within 10 meters for 127 seconds. however a single pallet stun is worth 50 points and looping the killer around a structure is worth ~1 point per second which you bank every 10 seconds, with a double bonus if you escape the chase.
so it is certainly possible to earn a silver evader emblem without ever being chased, but I wouldn't realistically expect gold emblems without chase unless the killer is farming. Additionally, during a chase you gain points in light bringer if your team are on gens
And I think this is right. getting into the higher ranks should be based on a demonstrated ability to master all elements of the game including stealth. if someone could get iri emblems without being chased at all. the pips aren't really a reward so much as a measure of overall match performance.
Finally, I tend to agree to an extent that stealth can sandbag the team. not that you aren't unhooking and doing gens, but if the killer can't find anyone else to chase then of course they are going to tunnel whoever is out being bold. If that person is a God tier looper then great, they run the killer for 5 gens and everyone escapes, but if not then they die early and make it that much easier for the killer to mop up
1 -
The problem is that although you may be stealthy, your teammates in most cases aren't or want to get chased and end up getting hooked. I've had games where I spent 40 seconds stealthily around a killer and then within 20 seconds of leaving me he had already downed another survivor. So the idea is you have to cover a bit for weaker players and take some pressure off them if the killer allows it.
But there is an optimal stealth play. Last night I had a game where the killer was running ruin, and within ten seconds of the match was already on my gen looking for me. I managed to stealth him around for about 40 seconds before he started to look for others. Just as he was a little distance a way, I fast vaulted a window to bring him back and start a chase. The reason for that is easy. If he ends up pressuring another gen and chasing someone else, only 2 gens might be completed while one regresses and the one I had been working on has no progress. By bringing the killer back to me I give my teammates enough time to finish their gens and still waste a decent amount of the killers time.
As far as the pip system goes, it's a joke and people shouldn't take it so seriously. Depiping because you got morid or face camped or because your teammates DCed or because survivors let you die on hook is dumb and the devs would rather release unfinished content than improve their current system.
0 -
When I don't run my normal build I run Fixated/UE/IS/BL. It's not super stealthy but I find it enjoyable to run
0 -
I understand where you're coming from, however, I did this several times and I was left to die half the time because no one came back to help me, even though I gave myself up for them, so I don't do it anymore.
2 -
I'm happy stealth is unrewarding, we already have enough Claudettes crouched in bushes using urban evasion and iron will. If it was more rewarding they would be more then... Is so boring to play against stealthy players.
Is better to learn loops and mindgames, more fun, and you get more points, I was a stealthy sv long ago.
0 -
Dude, you are being extremely rude. I can't even understand what you said here. I'm sorry, but from what I can understand, you are taking my words out of context and twisting them to meet your narrative. Stealth, when used properly, is the very essence of this game. When used improperly, it's like sandbagging your entire team. Stating that I said anything different is a false statement on your part. Instead of attacking me, why don't you attempt to prove your point?
2 -
If the last few new maps, and the latest map changes, are any indication of where BHVR is going, it is definitely toward a more stealthy play. If they didn't want players to use what you hate, they would not have added them in the degree that they have. This is one way of slowing the game down tremendously w/o making it tedious. They've said it before, this isn't COD, and they don't want DbD to be that type of game.
0 -
Essentially, this is a game of time management. The side who is most effective with their time is generally the side who wins. If survivors just needed to stall for time, stealth might be a good strategy. But they have an objective, to repair generators before the killer kills them all. So they need to be aggressive. It's similar to Town of Salem, where a passive town is a dead town.
The main problem with stealth is that it only wastes the killer's time in certain situations. However, if the killer isn't looking for you specifically, he'll just find someone else instead. I've had plenty of games where a survivor died off early because I legitimately could not find anyone else to chase, as they ducked away into cover after unhooking, leaving the injured survivor to be found again. That's just sandbagging those survivors.
You might think that the game should be more stealth centric, but that's pretty boring as a game concept. If you spent most of your time as killer looking for survivors, who are spending most of their time hiding in lockers or bushes, nothing is really happening. Neither side would have much fun that way, and the games would often be extremely long.
1 -
To those that argue you sandbag by avoiding, I raise you Survival of the Fittest. Action SWF DBD is not something I or any player ever contractually agreed to. Not my fault everybody runs around like they can't die or something anymore.
1 -
Yeah, the best thing you can do is run kindred and hope your team has at least 2 brain cells lol.
1 -
one of your posts is just insults how is that out of context? im being rude? you are inferring im an idiot in every reply and i have done nothing.i didnt attack you im saying you're continuously insulting me and asking you to stop.quote me copy and paste the exact comment you think "Stating that I said anything different is a false statement on your part. Instead of attacking me"
your not linking your points together in a way anyone else can follow saying your trying to make the case for stealth and going on about all the good your do for your team be looping for 5 minutes getting saves and completing gens. none of these are stealth
0 -
Dude, at this point it is crystal clear that you are trolling. I explained the "5 minutes gen" statement to you in 4 different posts, yet you have ignored everything that I've said in each post. You have failed to provide any information to counter my statements and continue to twist my words into something that I clearly rebuked. Stealth is here to stay, and BHVR is moving the game to a healthier, stealthier, state. You can either adapt, or have a miserable time in the game, it is completely up to you.
0 -
@Xeticus Well she sucked, so if anything she would've been better off dead (in the game). She even ratted out everyone else, it turned out ot be some streamer who was trolling to ruin other people's games.
0 -
I only hate stealthy survivors just because my BBQ stacks
0 -
I like to play stealth, but was discouraged with the lack of points. Staying in the killers radius for boldness and evasion points, working on gens, rescuing and healing people can help you get points and avoid depipping.
0 -
You only ever need to stealth if you're around the killer. I have no patience for survivors that sit in a bush all game.
0 -
this is a tag game, you should use these perks to make plays during chases
for example, fixated will help you to shift tech
iron will WILL help you to make mind games while injured
and so on..
0 -
Actually, stealth doesn't mean, hide in the corner of the map. Stealth can mean if I know the killer is closer to the gen I am working in, I proceed to hide instead of running like there's no tomorrow. And yes, it's not rewarded. Also, playing stealth makes the killer not wanting to spend time in searching you because that doesn't help him so you can work in the generator free of the killer pressure since the killer is not going to waste time looking for you.
1 -
I feel the problem with stealth is the objective of the survivors. The faster you finish those gens the better your chances of escaping. Sadly that means running around. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy stealth. Whenever I play skyrim my sneak skill is always the first to hit lvl 100. I feel stealth has it's place in DBD but it has 3 main problems.
1: The community gives it a bad rep. When you hear stealth you think a P3 Blendette that's crouched in a corner. UE'ing everywhere and not doing gens. There's nothing wrong with using UE to get around but if the killer is occupied you can throw stealth out the window and start running to the nearest gen. Most survivors look down on stealth and often hate message new survivors who try to actually avoid being seen. This causes the new players to think they need to run everywhere.
2: Stealth is like most hex perks for killer. High risk and low reward. Minus a few exceptions(Devour Hope) When a chase begins, losing a killer through stealth is very difficult against decent killers. If it works it's amazing. However if it doesn't work the killer gets a free hit. If your bleeding there's almost no point in trying to stealth. You can bring perks like dance with me, q&q or iron will but that's like bringing toth to protect ruin. Your doubling down. If it doesn't work your at an even greater disadvantage. You could have instead brought 2nd chance perks. Which I feel are too many and too powerful. There's also the killer to consider. If it's someone with a one shot, like bubba, billy, Oni, I don't even try to stealth them. If they find me crouched behind debris it's a free chainsaw.
3: Pallet looping is just so damn good at wasting time. Stealth "might" work. Pallet looping "will" work. Even if your caught, a decent looper can waste enough of the killer's time for the team to repair gens. If a stealthy player manages to lose the killer. Then the killer will go back to patrolling gens and probably find someone else. If the killer is busy chasing someone for 1 min then the rest of the team is practically free from harm to repair the gens.
1
