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Tunneling and Camping are not viable playstyles
They're things that a killer can do, but they shouldn't be viable nor should they be promoted as playstyles to such an extent that perks need to be designed to counter them. It's aggravating and practically uncounterable because eventually you are going to die and you can not do anything about it. I'm not saying they should be bannable offenses but they should at least be frowned upon enough for Behaviour to do something, anything really, to fix the issue.
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I think tunneling is a valid strategy. Although the problem is that usually players who are clearly new and don't have DS are the ones that are tunneled.
As for camping, while there are certain situations where it makes sense (ie. egc), its otherwise a strategy that ruins the game for one side.
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I am wondering what you think Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time are if not anti tunneling and anti camping perks. Also there's more perks besides those that also help... though I'll admit they aren't quite as good as those two at their jobs.
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I had a game on Friday were I had to camp
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I had 2 survivors left and hooked one right beside killer shack so in between the hook was the hatch and the other guy had a key. If I left for even a second he would’ve unhooked and both would’ve escaped
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I'm just going to say the same thing I been saying cuz this is like the 7th post of the same thing I seen in the last several days.
Ppl should play however they want. The devs already addressed the camping issues.
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It's a viable strategy with risks and downsides. Granted, most solos don't have the game sense to deal with it. But you aren't getting a 4k against the highest level competition (generally not found in normal lobbies) without some level of tunneling or camping.
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Well tunneling is just the killer version of genrushing, genrushing isn't frowned upon so neither should tunneling.
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They're only not viable if the team is smart enough to punish the camping killer by doing gens. The potato teams are the one who will hover around the hook making half baked attempts to save, watch the team mate die, and end up having another one go on the hook.
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Why because you don't like it? It's not up to you to tell people how to play, everyone play how they want.
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They both suck, but so do teammates that gen rush and do nothing but flashlight the killer for fun. I wish both sides would chill out sometimes, especially since DS isn't amazing. I get away and the killer is stunned for a few seconds, but the minute I get out I'm tunneled and hooked. Also, you can't win-- Everyone hates DS, but if you don't use it you're asking to lose. I stopped reading posts about how people should play because it's all so silly. Play the game and try your best, but don't play to be a jerk :)!!
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They're viable because bad or just survivors without the right perks (kindred) make them viable.
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If you're a really bad killer, it's the only option you have. It's why we bring in Decisive Strike. That and Mori's.
It's one thing to have a killer be brought to your hook when you're being taken off, it's another when they break off a chase halfway across the map to come back to the hook. There just aren't enough skilled players playing killer sadly.
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I definitely try not to do either, as I play both sides. Sometimes the unhooked survivor just runs straight into me, so I hit them. If I realize that it was the unhooked survivor, I'll usually leave them on the ground and chase someone else. If they're still there after I down someone else, they are fair game.
BTW, if you watch any streamer, every single one of them camps in some form. They either proxy camp, or they leave and come back after a small amount of time. No matter how you try to justify it, it's camping, plain and simple. The difference is that there are effective ways to camp, and ineffective ways to camp. Literally staying at the hook the entire time, is not an effective way to camp.
As for tunneling, when used effectively it ends the match extremely quickly. It can be so effective that matches end extremely fast and everyone depips. So stating that tunneling is not viable, is 100% false.
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I feel tunneling is very viable as a killer, expecally if you have to do rift stuff and I say this as a someone who plays 50/50 killer survivor.
Face Camping on the other hand I really don't feel like there's a need for expecally on Bubba, Nurse or the Spirit and lately those killers have been face camping my little group the most.
Okay admittedly Bubba's always face camp, maybe they aren't viable any other way, but high mobility killers just don't have an excuse to face camp.
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Agree they are not viable against good survivors who knows what to do in that kinda situation.
Yet, if they are over altruistic it will hurt them most of the time.
If i see a killer camp/facecamp I just go do gens and bones, same when they tunnel someone.
If they tunnel me, by all means cause I love getting chased.
I never care for escaping cause other than a few extra bloodpoints it doesn't give you any rewards.
I can't even care if I'm being camped to death on my first hook to, as long as the rest are doing what they need to do.
Best way to reduce the camping and tunneling is to reward fresh hooks in some way.
That way they go for more chases and more hooks.
The only reason I don't go after the same person, is because I want more different chases as that is more fun for me and for the survivors (eventhough they sometimes don't deserve it).
The only time I actually camp is during egc
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The difference is genrushing doesn't prevent a Killer from playing the game. That's just survivors doing what they're supposed to do (the only thing they can do actually) the Killer is still free to hunt and chase and the game is still FUN
Meanwhile, a Killer that tunnels/camps means that one survivors game is literally 1. Stare at their character on a hook. 2. Mash spacebar 3. Die and earn 2000 total BP.
they're really not comparable at all.
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They are actually. Genrushing is survivors getting their objective done fast and winning. Tunneling is the killer doing THEIR objective fast and winning. Genrushing does prevent the killer from playing the game because by the time he gets one hook three gens are done and there's no way he can win unless the survivors get too cocky. Just like genrushing, tunneling isn't fun for whoever is on the receiving end of it. The survivor gets to barely play the game and assuming BT and DS will likely die very fast. I don't get your point that the two aren't similar.
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The key difference is that Killers are not prevented from playing the game while Survivors do their only objective. And I'd say for a video game, that's a pretty big deal.
"Genrushing does prevent the killer from playing the game because by the time he gets one hook three gens are done and there's no way he can win unless the survivors get too cocky " <--- This is not a logical argument. Killers are still free to move around and "not winning" is not the same as "not being able to play".
Bottom line is, when a survivor is tunneled/facecamped they can't do anything
If a Killer is "genrushed", they're still free to attempt to turn the game around apply pressure, chase a survivor and do killer gameplay things.
thus, they are not the same and should not be compared as equally negative experiences. Also keep in mind Survivors ONLY have gens to do, while a Killer is not forced to only hook/camp ONE person. Very different!
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A Killer's goal...is to kill, and your goal...is to get away. That's it.
If you're getting tunneled, then no matter the killer's intent (whether they're a griefer or just inexperienced and don't know when to pull off you) you're failing at getting away. If you're being camped, then you failed at getting away, and even as crappy as a strategy like camping is, it only takes a second for a survivor to swing by and pull you off. Compared to the much larger time investment the killer had to make with chasing, downing, and carrying you to a hook.
In my first few days as a Killer, my lack of perks and general inexperience with the game made me feel forced to fall back on camping for some of my kills. Even then, there were plenty of moments where people pulled off saves, sometimes solo, and other times as a group with some impressive flashlight work and other strategies. It IS counterable, if you have the right team, and the right perks/add-ons/etc. Part of the problem is, even if you see a certain Killer strat being used, or you realize what their perks are, you can only change your strategy to counter them, not your own perk/add-on setup. So, you're stuck with what you have for that game, but, that applies to Killers too, so it goes both ways.
Even with all of that said, I wouldn't be opposed to implementing certain penalties for tunneling or camping. I don't think it'll change much though because, if you're tunneling or camping, you're either a griefer or inexperienced - penalties won't alter a griefer's behavior in this case and inexperienced players should grow out of those strategies anyway. I did. Camping is boring, and tunneling (along with camping) wastes time you don't have against better survivors.
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Not entirely agree with you on the last part tho.
Survivors still have the options to do bones, to sabotage, to heal.
Sure they are minor things but they are still objectives.
And most of the survivors that whine about noed are the once who love to rush the gens.
Don't get me wrong, I do hate noed to and have never used it.
Even skipped the rift challenge for noed, because I hate it.
But yeah back on topic, as frustrating as tunneling and camping is for survivor, gen rush is for the killer
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They're not viable playstyles. At least they're about as viable as survivors let them be.
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They aren't viable. If you camp a single survivor on hook, everyone else will pound gens.
Tunneling one person in earnest will get you DS'd and lose the game because you'll have no momentumn, be stunned for 5 secs, and other people pounding gens.
If the survivors choose to be trashcans and not pound gens, well... Is a strat really viable when it relies on the incompetence of your opponents?
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I alway's find it funny when people think any Perks were designed to counter Tunneling, or Camping.
It's like they don't even listen to Dev's, or updates.
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Funny, if you are capable of reading the descriptions of perks you would realize that is exactly what they are doing, they are there to provide protection, to provide more time to the survivors to escape and to counter act the viability of these strategies. Tell me exactly how protection from being downed after an unhook, from being hooked again or extending your time on the hook are not perks that help against these strategies? Just because the developers say, these aren't specifically designed to counter them doesn't mean that that isn't exactly what it does. You can blindly follow what people say or use your own brain and think for yourself.
Have a read for yourself and explain how these are not perks designed to help counter play the strategies of tunneling or camping and if those are not the reason they were created please elaborate what their goals are?
After unhooking a Survivor within the Killer's Terror Radius, for 15 seconds, any damage taken that would put the unhooked Survivor into the Dying State will instead apply the Deep Wound
Status Effect. The Survivor has 10/15/20 seconds to mend themselves.
How does this effect not help countering tunneling off the hook, you get a speed burst, you aren't dead on the floor and as a result will not be on your next hook?
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Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.
After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 40/50/60 seconds.
While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check
to automatically escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 5 seconds.
How does this effect not help against tunneling, literally after an unhook for a full minute you are going to stab the killer, jump off their shoulder, no longer in the dying state and able to run away if they try to pick you up to put you on the next hook.
or
Life has taught you the importance of friendship which has given you strength.
While you are on the Hook
in the Struggle Phase, Camaraderie activates.
If another Survivor is within 16 metres of your Hook while Camaraderie is activated, the Struggle Phase timer is paused for 26/30/34 seconds.
You are now prolonging the time on the hook, providing more time for your team to do gens and counter the strategy of camping? It literally is what the developers state is the counter play and they also state that camping is a valid strategy, not a good one but one none the less.
"If you feel like you are being camped, you should stay there for as long as you can and give your team a chance." - https://youtu.be/NEaFKY3opY0
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It's not that they play like trash it's just that they don't want to be bored and hold m1 while not being able to help their team or play the game normally , sure you can counter it at the expense of not having any action in a game , people take this game way too seriously sometimes
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Sure 1-2 gens left have to make a play I get it maybe go for a quick elimination (tunnel). 1 gen or EGC have to camp I get it but here's my issue and I play 90% killer. Last night I had to switch over to survivor to knock out some rift challenges at this point in time was doing the 10 unhooks (killer challenges done so could get to it) decided to use my cheryl she still has anniversary cakes and has a maxed WGLF so good BP. Gets better the killer play a anni cake too so I'm like so excited at this point what's the odds in a solo match. Proxy camping/ tunneling trapper at 5 gens like #########? bro at five gens. He caught a Kate at beginning at it appeared as tho he left but he had just walked like 20 meters and came straight back each time to go straight to unhooked not unhooker. Everytime this happens I can never ask them they always seem to be crossplay.
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