I wish dead hard would get reworked
In my own opinion, I feel like dh is too strong and in some cases it can carry survivors. Think of all the times somebody wouldve been down or killed if it hadn't been for DH. I dont find it a very skillful perk. All you have to do is click a button and get a free boost. Chases go on for at least another 10 seconds. I feel like if u had to use dead hard, you played the loop wrong. It's like the old ruin argument. Doesnt take much effort for the reward you get.
Edit: A nice change that was suggested was to make it so you couldnt vault or throw pallets 1.5 seconds after you use DH. Like with the doctor you cant hit immediately after the shock. Remember the only problem I have with dh is dh to a vault or pallet when the killer can do nothing to stop it
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Yeah I feel the exact same way about dh. It gives you too much value for what it was designed to do.
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Dead hard is still quite easily countered. Just wait that extra couple of seconds when you catch up to the survivor after the first initial m1 and bait it out.
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Personally I'm fine with it but I wonder how would you rework it?
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Pretty sure that it is actually getting reworked.
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Not really too much value. DH is popular bc it's the easiest on-demand gap oppener of the exhaustion perks. SB takes a lot of preparation to use on demand, Lithe activation is just bad, and BL might be useless depending on the map.
1- If they used DH they cannot use lithe, SB or BL during the chase.
2- Exhaustion addons counter DH more than any other of the aforementioned perks as you cannot use it while healthy.
3- DH is extremely inconsistent, more often than not trying to dodge an attack will result in you exhausted on the ground.
4- Once DH is used, the killer can easily counterplay in future chases. Other exhaustion perks are still good though.
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It is far and away the strongest exhaustion perk imo. The others just slightly extend a chase but Dead Hard is practically an entire reusable health state. Looking at it completely imparitial from playing a lot of both sides, with and without DH. Its simply too strong in the right hands.
It's like DS/UB. On 1 or 2 players its managable. And its likely to be misused. But on 4 players who know how and when to use it its incredibly strong.
I also think much like DS/Noed/Ruin+Undying bad players tend to rely on it over their own skills.
The main problem is that right now using it for its intended purpose (absorbing a hit) is secondary to using it for a free 'I win' button when the killer outplays you at a pallet loop. Hopefully after they've reworked it so it doesn't leave you exhausted on the ground 90% of the time it'll be looked at.
I don't think reusable health states are good from a design standpoint. Imagine if the killer had a perk to just quickly delete 3 pallets of their choosing at the start of the match. That would be the killer equivalent.
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Point 2 countered by the fact that very few killers have exhaustion add ons, and those that do are slowly having them removed or reworked into something different due to them being a relic of the old exhaustion system. And point 3 is obviously a programming problem that we know is getting fixed, hopefully soon.
Point 4 isn't much of an arguament because the survivor has to misplay and be caught out in the open in the chase (aswell as be injured), and on most maps against most killers, simply holding W once the chase starts is more than enough time to make it to a playable tile. As long as there is an undropped pallet (dropped depending on distrance to the killer + connection) or a decently safe vault nearby only 3 or 4 killers can actively counter the perk, other killers have no choice but to chase it and allow it to play out.
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I normally run Sprintburst. Decided to run Dead Hard again whole day yesterday - today I went back to Sprintburst. Dead Hard either fails to activate when pressing the button or you get hit mid DH. I think I managed to use it twice the whole day to extend a loop without getting hit anyways.
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Personally I think just cutting the distance to about 2/3s of what it is now and slightly extending the window of invulnerability would make it fairer. If you look at Davids perks it hilariously obvious that this perk was intended to bait killers out of already in place chases and absord hits for protection points with no mither. I highly doubt the devs ever intended it be used the way it mostly is now.
90% of the time it isnt used to actually absord the hit even in chases, its used to save a survivor that played badly.
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DH is not that big of deal. It's called waiting it out a few seconds. No big deal. Once you seen it on a certain survivor. Then you know to always bait it out. Honestly dh needs a good rework. Getting hit while dh is animating is be. Happens alot because of dedicated servers. Yes you can complain m1 to win for distance. But isn't that the same for all killers? Someone injured just m1. Got need just m1, got devour hope just m1, got haunted grounds just m1... see it's easy to make that remark.
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I do hope that the new version doesn't actively punish me with exhausted on the ground if I actually try to dodge when the killer starts a lunge like the current version.
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You are really overestimating DH. 3 is not a programming problem, it's a latency issue. DH was much more effective when games were hosted by the killer but with the introduction of the servers in the middle, the survivors latency and killers latency play a role now. When you take in account that DH grants 0.5sec minus both latencies of immunity and that hit detection favors the killer as stated by the devs, DH becomes this unreliable dodging tool. It's much more effective to gain distance and extend a loop.
Also, you seem to be underestimating other exhaustion perks. SB allows you to work on extremely unsafe gens with the impunity of reaching a safe tile and the most skilled users will 99 it to activate an on demand. 3 seconds of sprint burst mid chase hurt a lot more than 0.5 of DH. BL is basically the same, but it's usage is inconsistent due to map layouts. Lithe will always be the worst due to the activation requirement.
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You cant counter this if they use DH for distance to a window or pallet. That's my problem. You cant counter it and you just feel robbed of a hit
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Yes you can, just do not lunge. Walk behind them and tap M1.
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If you are running a loop chasing a survivor. They will DH before they get in m1 range for distance to make the pallet or window. Otherwise if they hadn't had it, you would of hit them. My problem isnt using dead hard to miss a hit normally, my problem is using it for distance on a loop where you otherwise wouldve gotten a hit
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I agree with this and think this is a fair trade. This makes it less effective for looping but more effective for its intended purpose
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I was thinking more of reworking exhaustion status or leave it to a token system when using dead hard consume a token.
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Again you cant wait it out if they DH for distance in a loop
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Imagine complaining about DH while Killers literally have a builtin DH that has a marginal cooldown compared to DH, where "all you have to do is" hold "a button and get a free boost".
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Dead hard is easily a perk that i hate THE most.
Whenever i do a really good mindgame or use my power really well (e.g blight) the survivor just taps a button and bam,you get nothing.
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I'll assume you're talking about bloodlust. First of all ur assuming I'm a killer main I play both sides. And bloodlust in some situations is necessary due to some map designs. While its defo a problem if u hit BL2 or more but overall BL1 is not a big deal and rarely happens with good killers. It's only bad killers who abuse bloodlust
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Yes! I'd be different if there were any sort of counter play to it or and risk on their side but there isnt any. It's all reward
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I'm talking about the Lunge Attack (which is performed by holding a button).
I did not assume you're a killer main, but I assumed you knew the game.
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From what ik (I may be wrong I heard it a whole ago) that the only thing they were doing do Dead Hard was to make it more consistantly somehow where it would bug out. I may be wrong but I swear I heard them say that on a dev stream
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And I fail to see how you're arguing that a 0.5 burst of speed is more valuable than 3 seconds offered by other perks in the same situation. If you really think DH is OP the best advice I have to you is exhaustively use it and ask yourself sincerely if you wouldn't had a better benefit from other perks. If you don't wanna invest your time doing this, check content creators that use them to the fullest potential and you'll understand that DH is inconvenient for you as a killer but other perks can be much worse. I recommend Ussylis for Sprint Burst.
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yes Dh should be change, but not reworked, it should be so you can't interact with anything for 1 or 1.5 second after using it.
like this it can be only use to go to loop and extend a loop but with a risk, no more dead hard to vault or pallet drop
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That's not where Dead Hard is strong, nor how you can counter it. You cannot counter Dead Hard for distance to a pallet or window (or even out an exit gate). You simply can't. It's not possible. You either continue a chase, which can last very long, or you give up. The exception would be playing Phead and shockwaving an animation lock, or a Huntress hatchet.
Yeah, you can wait out someone being dodging a hit when you're on their ass, but that's just using the perk to waste 2 seconds of the killer's time.
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Correct,they are reworking the code from dead hard to make it more consistent with dedicated servers
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Well for starters Lithe and Balanced are situational so they are not better. The only real contender is Sprint Burst. Also take into account I like sprint burst more and use it more. The problem with dead hard is that you can do everything right as a killer and they will still be able to get another loop again with DH. THERE IS NO COUNTERPLAY. You could use SB or DH depending on your playstyle. SB lets you get a head start and sometimes even makes the killer not try and chase you. The problems with DH is that it just robs a good play from the killer that otherwise wouldve gotten the hit. And it gets even more unfair when every chase you have this happens when everyone is running DH (there is a reason it is the post popular exhaustion perk).
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To add to that,if i see someone sprint bursting to a very strong tile then i can just choose to leave the person and chase someone else or catch them off guard a bit later while their sprint burst is still on cooldown.
This isn't the case with dead hard
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....walk behind them and M1 when the reason you're lunging is to hit them before they're in Dead Hard range of the pallet/vault... righto.
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Yes, there is a reason why it's popular, it's in my first response. If you keep telling yourself that there is no counterplay despite even other killers arguing otherwise than this discussion is fruitless. What DH does better then other exhaustion perks is showing you the opportunities you missed, but you're not arguing that SB robbed of the first hit in that unsafe gen or the tile transition that BL or Lithe allowed them to make on you. DH is just in your face and that seems to be the frustrating aspect that you're trying to address.
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I am reading a lot of these comments and I'm getting the feeling that they just aren't smart going against it. Every time I've used it or seen it being used, it's saved maybe three seconds at best. Most of the time it gets wasted in a dead zone in an attempt to get to another area, or just outright baited out.
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I think everyone should just use clown with solvent jug then and just call it a day and no no every survivor they down screw it..
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You realize im not the only person that feels this way? If I find a clip I can show you but I feel like you don't understand what im talking about.
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6:19 is an example. granted he was doctor and could of shocked but thats just one killer. For some killers there is nothing they could of done to prevent that. He would of gotton a hit because he messed up but since he had DH he was saved. I dont see how this is a missed opportunity when the killer could do nothing.
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that only works if they dont know what they are doing or endgame when there are no pallets
good survivor uses it to get range to get to a pallet/window therefore it has no counter and thats the reason why its problematic
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Since we're cherry picking examples, here goes one from the same player around the same time:
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Exhausted on the ground OP!!!
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But he didn't even go for the pallet. And he wasnt even looping him. This just shows u dont know what I'm talking about. He probably couldve made it to the pallet without dead hard. He wasn't dead Harding for distance in that example, he was dead Harding to avoid a hit which isn't the strongest way to use it and very counter able. The example i used literally nothing the killer could do to stop the guy
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https://youtu.be/We0luJm7Y4o?t=452
Heres more examples if you really need to see
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Yes, I've seen. What I don't understand get is why are you so mad at a perk that is not even working correctly. DH always gained you distance and before servers, it also allowed you to dodge a hit consistently. It's an exhaustion perk, it is supposed to be powerful as it only lasts 0.5 sec compared to the other exhaustion perks that last for 3 to 5 seconds and you cannot change its direction once started.
What I really wish was that you could see beyond punctual evidence, bc if you don't you will continue frustrating yourself whenever someone uses the perk in matches.
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Ima just stop becuz the fact that you are still stating dead hard doesnt work correctly and ignoring the fact it has no counterplay makes this discussion meaningless.
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I feel the same. Admittedly, I use it because the potential is far more than the others but I think the game would be better off without it.
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"Exhausted and on the ground! Perk sucks!"
Still ran by 90% of survivors
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It is getting re worked.
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That doesn't help, so many people know by this point the distance needed to hit, they use the red stain to set up the dead hard. Lunge has very little to do with it.
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Dead hard is in the list to be re worked because it’s not consistent now with dedicated servers. It was created before dedicated servers were a thing.
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I agree with OP. Killer can do everything correctly, but gets robbed of a deserved hit just because a survivor pressed a key. It’s very annoying to deal with (unlike other exhaustion perks) and has no counter play when done before a pallet or window.
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Dead hard is balanced by the fact that it doesn't even work half the time. Pretty rough downside imo, not to mention it's the only exhaustion perk that has this unique mechanic.
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