Playing against spirit/slinger/etc is the same as playing as m1 killer.
I like how people complain about spirit, slinger or other "If person playing makes no mistakes, I can't win" kind of killers, but are perfectly fine that M1 killer gameplay is essentially the same as playing against spirit.
Watch. I'll use spirit as an example here. Winning a chase for killer - down survivor and not lose the game because of how long it took. Winning a chase as survivor - make killer leave you/make it so chasing you costed too much time for the killer.
Who is the one having to mindgame in chase?
- When playing as spirit - survivors.
- When playing as m1 killer - killer.
Who is the one having to rely on opponents mistakes in order to win a chase?
- When playing as spirit - survivors
- When playing as m1 killer - killer.
Who has no way of winning a chase if both opponent and the player are making no mistakes?
- When playing as spirit - survivors.
- When playing as m1 killer - killer.
Who has to use alternative and non-reliable tricks to win the chase/game?
- When playing as spirit - survivors.
- When playing as m1 killer - killer.
Why when survivors have to be the ones not having an upper-hand in chase it is a disaster, broken game and fix it instantly or I'll install, but when the killer is not having an upper-hand in chase it's perfectly fine?
If people are so desperately wanting killers like spirit to be changed, so that they stand a chance against a pro spirit, they mustn't deny that M1 killers should also be changed, so that they can stand a chance against pro survivors.
Waiting for local survivor mains who will try their best to explain me how these are entirely different things and only killers like spirit need changes.
Comments
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So you're comparing spirit to trapper? Makes 0 sense mate.
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Did you read the post?
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I did, and he was comparing spirit to m1 killers. A good example of a m1 killer is trapper, if you're being chased in a place that he doesn't have traps on. Meanwhile, I've never seen people complain about trapper, because you can actually see him and know what he is doing. Meanwhile, spirit can just stay still and you have no clue what is going on because there are no visual or sound cues.
I just don't see how both of them are comparable besides both having an m1 attack. The difference is, spirit can recover and phase, if trapper wants to use his ability he has to leave and get a trap.
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Not a good comparison there. Biggest difference between Spirit and any M1 killer is that Spirit gives zero information to the survivor when or how she's uses her power. There's no way to to react to her plays when she can literally just stand still and do nothing to mind game you.
Might as well try to play chess but your opponents Queen piece is invisible for most of the game.
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Just like killer has zero information about survivor movements on high wall loops?
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You clearly didn't read post if you think like that. Try actually reading instead of looking through
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If you go to that level of argumentation, you can say that all Killers are equal because they use M1 to hit Survivors.
So I guess we dont need to buff any Killers, since they are all the same as Nurse, who is the strongest Killer in the game.
(Yes, I am leading your logic ad absurdum, but you should know that comparing M1-Killers to Spirit or Deathslinger is simply wrong)
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I don' think I can argue with this, since arguing with that kind of "arguments" you use is like trying to prove something to a flat earther.
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I just re-read it, and my opinion stands. Sure, by that logic, all the killers are the same if they don't use their power (besides killers that are slower).
You need to keep in mind they have powers though.
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and survivor has perks and items and 3 other survivors with 3x more items and perks so what?
EDIT: In the end, if killer's power doesn't give antiloop - wraith, ghostface, etc, etc, they are in survivor's position against spirit.
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You had me until "Who has to rely on opponent mistakes to do well".
You can play super safe and mindgame correctly against a deathslinger, nurse and possibly spirit and still have them stalled for at least a solid 40 - 60 seconds. This is assuming good positioning.
I wouldn't really say also that survivors are in full control in other situations unless you have an absurd amount of safe tiles like on ormond. Some tiles even when pre dropped can be mindgamed and sometimes zoned into the break which is what a lot of good Bubba/Billy players do to get an easy down. EDIT: Wanted to add that survivors still have a huge advantage, killers however aren't helpless though. A lot of factors go into this so I didn't even consider god buildings etc.
I see your points though, I just wanted to point out that survivors are not helpless against these killers, people are just bad.
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- Survivor drops the palette
- Spirit breaks the pallet
- Surviovor run to the closest possible loop
- Spirit has movement and activation time addons and catches survivor in the middle way to the loop
- Counterplay 😂
Plus once surviovor is injured (Stridor!) there is no room for mindgame
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Footsteps, breathing. The survivor is technically also in the dark if the killer knows how to hide their red stain and is playing off of osunds too
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He never compared spirit to M1-Killer. He compared Spirit with survivors, when they play against M1-Killer. He said spirit and survivor in this case play the same.
Its true that survivor depend on the available loops and spirit depends on nothing, but there are enough loops in the game where this comparison works.
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Uh, sounds are in the game for a reason. Don't get me wrong, half the time they're broken, but they are usually functioning enough to work out where a survivor is moving around, especially on outdoor maps since grass rustling seems to always work.
High wall loops are actually better for M1 killers since they allow the killer to play with their red stain, and so make it easier to trick a survivor into taking a hit or being forced to drop a pallet. This is why they made it almost impossible to see through the loops on Coldwind consistently a year or so ago; there was no ability to mindgame because the survivor could keep track of the killer through entire loops, even on tiles like pallet gyms that are incredibly powerful even without this issue.
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There is a big difference between his arguments and your example. It is lazy to take a argument ad absurdum and not to discuss it.
He just said that survivor need to do the same thing against a spirit, a M1-Killer need to do against survivor.
There are maps with loops where this statement is true.
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I could agree with "use sounds" argument if there was no such thing as loudening chase music that stopped me from hearing these silent footsteps while survivor is on the other side of the wall I can't see through with my 1st person camera.
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Its actually equal playing fields when there’s a high wall. In fact A lot killers complain that the walls aren’t high enough because survivors can use stretch res to look over the walls.
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Survivors have 3rd person advantage over killers + red glow that killer's aren't always able to hide and when they try to hide it, they hinder themselves more than help.
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Interesting argument. Pity that forum reading comprehension seems to have been nerfed recently.
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I just can't understand how people saw me comparing m1 killers with spirit when it's dead obvious they are sky and earth
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I've never understood why people think Spirit is such a good killer in my experience Spirit is easily one of the weakest killers in the game (if they don't have stridor) the only killers worse than Spirit are Legion and Demogorgon and no I'm not joking at all I'm dead serious
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I disagree with this post. There so many variables you aren't pointing out. Spirit (A good one) will deny you of these "tricks" that you speak of.
Sometimes in DBD when you are in a chase against an M1 killer, you have to time things and not become out-positioned.... because if you do, you will not win the chase. Against Spirit your skill requires that and more. The problem is the "more" part is simply guessing, guessing where/when her next swing will happen. An opponent which by default cannot see a character while phasing, but that once the survivor is injured her audio is still crystal clear as to the exact location of that survivor makes it nearly impossible to counter... not to mention her 'downside' doesn't really amount to anything.
I actively play Trapper possibly as M1 as you can get from how much RNG he is dependent on. He requires a lot more effort not because you think you are the one having to "mind-game". You forget he also requires time. Time in which he has to pretty much predict where survivors might loop in order to properly place a trap... and even then they can disarm and completely undo that time you just spent "preppin". So in that regard, Spirit has her power from the very start. Making her take less effort to play as. In other words, Trappers aren't winning because they have to be the ones mind-gaming, the only time when it is nearly impossible to mind-game is when there is a trap involved... which is not guaranteed to always be the case.
Also, and especially with the way the maps were made to give you a safety 'net' when it comes to having some control over your chases. The devs never made these maps (and especially when you account the unsafe pallets) with different powers in mind. They only seem to go by each side's performance, when most of us who have plenty of hours realize that some loops just weren't really made to be played against certain killers.
You are comparing apples to oranges.
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I swear, some people have the ability to read but simply choose to ignore what they see that doesnt fit their narrative. OP is talking about how the gameplay for survivors, changes to feel like standard m1 killer gameplay when going against the spirit. Not comparing spirit and m1 killers.
At first i thought it was just 1 guy reading it wrong but aparantly every single survivor in the thread just closed their eyes, plugged their ears and started screaming *SPIRIT OP STOP ARGUING*
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