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Man I love it when the survivor sidedness shows
Good job guys we did it!
We got the mori's nerfed and not the keys with them and it'll probably take months for the keys to be changed while the mori's stay effectively useless with killing someone on third hook more useful and less time consuming on certain killers than using their mori off second hook you guys just lazily looked over at pyramid head and said "Hey why don't we do that?" And then bam amazing super balanced nerf no need to glance at keys just screw killers ya know it's not like there are tons more survivors than killers let's just make things harder for em ya know?
But seriously this nerf is lazy and BAD I have no idea why they would cram it into this bugfix unexpectedly without warning, without teasing, and without trying a public test like with the bloodlust experiment and I think they're wrong for doing it but that's all if you hate my outlook so be it I think it's a bad idea and I think mori's are more or less useless in this new state or at least pointless.
Comments
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Keys are no where near as bad as Moris. We can stop acting like they are absolute equals in power and deserved to be addressed at the same time.
Keys are going to get nerfed, just be patient.
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To be fair, keys are stronger than Moris now.
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Sorry but Mori's NEEDED to be nerfed, it's tiring and pathetic to be one hooked then mori'd in 5mins, wooh hoo!
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1 - the Mori change was simply a number change, keys need a lot more work to be changed
2 - Moris were way stronger than keys
3 - Moris are quite common, keys are not
4 - it's the community that decided mori=key, but actually they have nothing to do with each other. Changing one doesn't affect the other.
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Yesterday I played at least 15 Survivor matches and I had 2 Mori's...
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Keys have never been touched by the net bat. Moris have been nerfed twice. Seems to show some favoritism to me.
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There's plenty of counterplay to keys. They require a lot of work to use. They don't need nerfed.
But moris was probably nerfed too much. They do nothing for the killer now.
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They executed it so quickly, because killers would be using their mori's left right and center! so just jump announcing it was a good move, gave killers less time to get their mori's out.
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Siding with OP on this one, the fact keys werent addressed at all during this patch is pretty crappy to do. As the entire killer community called though, moris got changed and keys MAY be changed months down the line if it becomes an issue though it probably wont because survivors need to be coddled so they will buy more skins.
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5 mins is really long time in a match, and the killer needs to down you twice to use the mori.
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It certainly feels that way sometimes.
I have little faith that keys will meaningfully get changed any time soon.
Killers lost a lot of ability to counter survivors and be scary all in one fell swoop, and survivors have a lot more room to make mistakes.
That's what the game boils down to a lot, and it feels a lot more unforgiving for killers when there's 4 survivors worth of mistakes that can be done. This isn't 1v1.
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I was trying to exaggerate and good, it's the way it should be.
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They are. People just ignore the fact that the killer has to down you twice to use it, and act like the killer can just instakill survivors the whole match.
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Unlike how they announced BNP nerfs ahead of time and the survivors got to have buckets of free time to use and abuse them? More favoritism from the devs.
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Not the same.
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1 - Yes they do. Peanits just said on Discord explaining why they changed Moris first.
2 - For 3 survivors to escape with a key they have to repair 4 generators, have someone die and find the hatch all together. A killer can (could) kill 3 survivors by hooking them once instead of thrice. That's 2/3 or the objective skipped.
3 - That's your experience and I doubt your view is unbiased. Using more reliable data, key escapes are just 2% of the total escapes (source: Peanits on Discord). Their chance to be found in chests is just 7% and that includes Broken Keys (source: wiki), the most useless item in the game. Ebony Moris on the other hand can be found every 5ish bloodwebs, 2 on the Huntress since she has only one UR addon.
4 - Yes they do, but in very different ways that don't interact at all with each other.
The point is not that keys should not be changed, I would be very glad when they rework them. It is that Moris and keys are different problems, with different solutions and different priorities. The devs just went for the higher priority and easier solution so now keys jumped higher in the priority list and will hopefully be next. You guys should be glad a problem was fixed instead of keep bitching.
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It's not survivor sideness in this case though. And they will probably do something about keys as well, at least that is what we expect. I play mostly as killer and I do think Mori's pressure was excessive. If you get some people who play with only one or two killers with thousands of hours they can pretty much use one almost every game. The average player won't do so, but in the end the pressure of the possibility of tunneling in the case of Mori is just too great to make it a fair game. It's almost the same as starting with one less player from the beginning.
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It’s obvious keys are a problem but who said they should Nerf both Mori’s and Keys at the same time?
It seems like Mori’s are easier to change whereas Keys aren’t: Number tweaks, add-on pass, animation introduced etc. it’s more complex.
I rather them take their time and do it right than rush it and flop.
Just wait, keys will be nerfed soon
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I mean... moris were really never that good. It's literally an Everone Loses offering. Both sides depip, have a short ass match, and get like 6 bloodpoints. Keys are actually really really good for the survivor for the very opposite things
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Do you not understand what would have happened if they'd have teased or tested this first?
Nearly every single game from now until the change would have been with a mori, everyone would quit.
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No there isn't, what are you on, yes they do.
I don't think so, good they shouldn't do anything THAT impactful as an f-ing OFFERING
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Do some research and use your brain before speaking. Mandy said that the keys are taking more time because of animation changes, addons are being changed, and bc moris were more powerful.
It's common sense that keys are items, so they'll take longer to fix.
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then please Einstein, what can they do the fix keys? Only be used after all gens are done? Pointless. Moris were changed because they’re much easier than changing keys. They have to make keys not pointless, while also keeping in mind they have an achievement where all 4 survivors need to escape through hatch. I’m sure something will happen soon with keys, but a simple switch to the hook requirement is much easier than totally revamping keys
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See the logic on why keys and moris were changed at different times is kinda whack and really DOES show a survivor sidedness, because the logic of urgency of change was evaluated from the survivor's side in both case.
Moris, from the killer perspective, are useful for swinging a game but only increase the speed of kill by 33%. That is very useful for swinging a game, but not crazy. But from a survivor recieving it you are just suddenly out of the game when normally you wouldn't be, and that stinks. However, from the perspective of the survivor COLLECTIVE Moris don't change as much as you might think: Good survivors can still play to the hatch just as efficiently and the game barely changes at all for solo players who basically are evaluating if this is a hatch or gate game every game anyway.
For survivors, keys aren't that powerful, they merely make it so you can nope out a gen or two earlier if a solo, and as a SWF a lot of conditions that make a lot of your friends lose need to be true for keys to seriously accelerate the game. However... from the killer's perspective... Keys are INFINITELY terrible because a key being featured in a game requires you to tunnel the keyholder out very quickly, or steamroll the game, or you absolutely won't pip. There isn't a killer equivalent of doing two gens and then taking the hatch here, if 2 survivors escape via hatch early while there are still plenty of gens to go and you didn't already get hook states from them your de-pipping that game, flat out, and there isn't actually a ton you can do about that.
So from a survivor perspective, even ignoring the bias of wanting their tool not to be nerfed, obviously keys aren't that bad, but that requires you to ignore the key structural difference between the killer's loss condition and the survivor's loss condition. Its actually kinda mega screwed up.
Now don't get me wrong, both needed to be changed and the Mori change is... fine I guess? It just really IS annoying that they changed moris first for lots of reasons. It ties into the pretty obvious favoritism that Devs were showing in the past and seemed to be 'growing out of.' But also it encourages survivors to use keys way more (Because a lot of killers would 'counter' keys via using the mori to remove keyholders from the game very fast, and because survivors know a key nerf is coming and won't save them), and because keys are far more common in games at rank 1 than moris.
It doesn't matter that the key change is more complex, they coulda just NOT nerfed Moris until keys were changed, because, again, Moris impact survivor scoring way less than keys. Also they are less NPE weirdly. Its way better from an emotive standpoint to suddenly be out of the game in a telegraphed way you have lots of control over than to know your almost certainly going to lose because they have OoO and a key, even if you play amazingly.
This is just actively irritating and is a choice that shows very little empathy with the actual problems of the community and the relationship of its two sides.
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It's still the fact they could have changed them at the same time rather than cramming the mori changes into the bugfix unannounced it's still the fact that for a good month or two the keys will remain the same and mori's will be useless
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It's common sense why don't you think before you try and correct someone
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Killer mechanic: absolutely ######### broken and OP
Developers: Let's make it healthier for the game and nerf it!
Half the killer playerbase: oMg SuRvIvOr-SiDeD
Survivor mechanic: absolutely ######### broken and OP
Developers: Let's make it healthier for the game and nerf it!
Half the survivors: oMg KiLlEr-SiDeD
absolutely pathetic
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Any stats to back up this claim?
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You say this but the game and the devs actions have shown survivor sidedness the fact that you say this and anyone who says the game is killer sided are the people who are dumb if you can play a game where one side can absolutely dominate you to the point where there is nothing you can do if they're a good team with good perks than that shows it pretty well to me.
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I did, so you want everyone to suffer for 2 months? Just be happy that they got rid of 1 of them. You wanna complain so fast? Know what you're talking about.
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DS has been nerfed twice already with a third one being considered....
Amount of nerfs mean nothing about favoritism especially when we are talking about good changes ^
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Lol @ some people claiming there’s keys in almost every lobby, which is clearly over-exaggerated.
Although keys have the potential for a 3 man escape with 1 gen left that’s nowhere near as common as 4k’s with Ebony mori’s.
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Unfortunately, people fail to realize that they are both equally as annoying simply because they cut 1/3 of each side's objectives. As a killer, you have to perform 12 chases in order to get a 4k, with a mori it's just 8 chases. As a survivor you need to repair 5 generators and power up the exit gates which is 6 objectives at total. With a key, you may ignore even 3 of these objectives, thats half of the survivor's total objectives.
Also, survivors can find a key in a chest, making them even more common.
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The devs aren't survivor sided, they don't even play the game. They rely mostly on spreadsheets and statistics to balance out the game, which is why the game feels so bad on either side. It's just that the statistics and spreadsheets say that killer is overperforming.
Lots of modern game devs are guilty of this nowadays. You get balance changes to the game that statistically look really great, but feel like utter crap while playing the game, that's because the devs don't play the game that they spend 40 hours or more developing a week, and / or they don't consult players that actually play the game.
Two very great examples of this is the fact that the devs have stated in the past that clown is one of the stronger killers in the game and that players just haven't figured him out yet, and that OoO is not a problem perk. On paper and on spreadsheets, this is certainly the case, but when you actually get into the game and play it, these statements cannot be further from the truth.
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That’s not what they said though about clown! What they said was he was “UNDERRATED” they never said he was strong just underrated cause they stated there opinion but they also said they will look into his matches to see further changes and now he’s getting reworked. But I still hate how he said OoO is fine cause it has a low survival rate.
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everything you said was false the reason keys didn’t get changed was cause they have to completely rework the addons and animations for the key also leaks have stated keys nerf will come in the mid chapter patch, also stupid cosmetics does not hold back game development.
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But it’s ok to make Moris pointless? Because that’s what they are now. Also. They. Could. Have. Waited.
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Literally removing all the fun things from the game one by one
lets just remove hooks next, maybe gens as well, we’ll all just run around doing ######### all
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you cleary dont play killer if u think keys are not common, lol
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I play killer as much as I play survivor.
On the other hand you don't seem to play survivor a lot if you think keys are more common than moris.
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Cosmetics do when they are a primary source of income. Survivors buy more cosmetics, they are more numerous and they decreed moris are ebil and must be ruined. So bhvr did just that, nerf moris because the survivor base wanted them worthless.
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Gens can be done in 5 minutes. Isn't that boring for killers?
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Prior to this chapter releasing I would completely agree with you. But I run into a key game now every other match because of appraisal. There are so many rank1 swf teams running 'key to victory' build now it's sickening.
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but it’s ok to keep moris OP? Who gave you the power to say it’s pointless? Also. They. Don’t. Need. To. Change. Them. At. The. Same. Time. Quit. Crying. Get. Better.
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I always felt moris were more comparable to the old insta heals. not nerfing moris when they nerfed insta heals shows the devs are killer sided i guess?
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Keys haven't been touched because they changes they're making likely take longer to implement. Keys are an item with addons, and require more work to change.
Moris were nerfed the first time because they were absurdly overpowered and nerfed now because the game is weeding out the older problematic mechanics of the past. It's definitely not favoratism.
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Yeah, they have been in the game for years; but somehow mori's were magically nerfed in a hotfix but the dev's didn't have time to get to keys.
Oh, but instant med kits? Everyone was given a huge heads up the nerf was coming. And those were spammed like candy for almost a month solid until it hit.
Outrageous, as someone who plays both sides. People are open carrying keys like guns in the wild west right now. And there is no answer.
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well soon you'll be tunneled to death within 5 minutes anyways (anybody that took 5 minutes to geta kill with amori probably needed it lol) and then you can go right back to a 20 minute queue afterwards lol
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Yes I'm complaining and I have the right to they are both a problem and should be addressed at the same time and now that mori's have been nerfed and people know keys are soon to follow in the next 2-3 months people are going to use them like hell because I was playing earlier and had 4 games in a row with skeleton keys.
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Moris were objectively more harmful to the game than Keys. But BHVR has now reduced a scummy Offering to an incredibly niche Offering, I dont want useless Offerings. Why should I use by hard earned bloodpoints on a almost zero benefit offering?
BHVR, You gotta fix Moris later, this is real good but also minor bad.
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