Why there will always be a Killer shortage
The game is unbalanced because Killer has a much higher skill cap than Survivor. You have to understand the macro-level map pressure, chase juggling and hook pressure. But also the micro-level interactions with 1v1 chase, map design and different perk interactions. Not to mention using the specific killer power, which can change drastically depending on who you're trying to learn.
Killer is a solo role, so its much more difficult to pick up the skills required to succeed because you have have no peers to watch while playing the game. Survivors tend to team up with friends and play with voice chat... and even if they don't, they have perks like Bond and using their eyes to see how other players succeed. With Killer its either dive right in and learn the hard way from a repeated cycle of failures or do tons of video research on Killer to gain the knowledge from other people, either way you'll struggle much more. And spend much more time learning the basic and advanced knowledge for Killer than most Survivors will for their role.
The only real way I could see Killer becoming as accessible and easy to pick up as Survivor would be a duo Killer mode with eight Survivors. That way Killers could learn from each other in-game directly and there would be an incentive for friends to play together on both roles. Right now if you want to play with a friend the only role that supports that is Survivor, which also contributes to the problem. In a duo killer mode, I would assume for balance purposes that both Killers would be the same Killer because trying to balance all the different power interactions and synergies would probably make the Devs heads explode. Besides, having both players run the same Killer also makes learning easier as well for newer Killer players.
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I agree
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Seriously. I just had a match where the survivors send me to Ormond, and were a swf group (Can confirm cause I messaged them) of 3. Then had 3 gens pop in less than 2 minutes cause they were all on one by themselves. I had a relatively fast down, but how am I supposed to put pressure on three gens while I'm in the middle of a chase, or better yet, even if I got to one of them after my first chase, how do I put pressure on two of them while chasing the second? They said I tunneled, and to be fair I did. But there was no other way I was gonna get a kill. I said, what you're doing is a little rude, then they said they were all laughing at me and to chill it's just a game. And I was a little tilted, but what could I have done? I was able to get the last two on their last hook, but of course they have borrowed, decisive, and were body blocking. I'm not sayoing every game is like this. But if they have the potential to do this, it just doesn't seem very fair.
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I just think that killers are tired of being called ######### and being shittalked for playing killer.
Every single match there is always a salty survivor that can't take an L, why? Who knows.
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Another issue is that survivors just in general need to stop harassing killers.
Whenever a killer makes a mistake in game survivors taunt them.
Whenever a killer has a bad game they get insulted endlessly in end game chat.
Whenever a killer plays in a way a survivor doesn't like they get told things no one should ever be told.
Whenever a killer plays in a way a survivor DOES(No tunnel/camping of any kind) like they get told they played in a way they didn't like and look at the above.
Whenever killer plays a character they like survivors harass them for playing it(Try playing doctor/legion for a week....)
Whenever a killer plays well they get harassed to no end in end game chat and even out of the game.
None of these even consider things like SWF imbalance or match making which only exacerbates the above issues
What I am trying to get at is part of the issue is the community itself as boy does it make people not want to touch killer with a 12 foot pole.
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(Cropped cause I don't know how we feel about exposing usernames here, even if they are cheating a**hats.) Agreed. It wouldn't be so bad if cr*p matchmaking like the above wasn't the norm, or if they could just stomp us respectfully and go about their day. -_- Can't win for losing as Killer, even when it's a decent match up someone always has to lay on the salt ... It's to the point where we actively have to choose between the community aspect (enabling messaging) or burning the bridge before we get burnt.
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Unfortunately the community (especially on the forums) has made insulting killer ayers the norm, to the point even mids dont bother on calling it out. 4/5ths of the playerbase want to bully someone when they play and killers are expected to tolerate it because "YoU nEeD tO sToP BeInG sO SeNsItIvE, GiT gUd"
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The shortage of killers is anecdotal. Queues vary throughout the day.
The game is unbalanced because Killer has a much higher skill cap than Survivor. You have to understand the macro-level map pressure, chase juggling and hook pressure. But also the micro-level interactions with 1v1 chase, map design and different perk interactions. Not to mention using the specific killer power, which can change drastically depending on who you're trying to learn.
Everything you mentioned needs to be understood by (good) survivors as well. Decision-making and awareness are core skills regardless of role, just as 1v1.
Survivors tend to team up with friends and play with voice chat.
SOURCE: you. Survivor is by default a solo role as well, you know?
and even if they don't, they have perks like Bond and using their eyes to see how other players succeed.
I just needed to use aura perks to become a pro survivor. I can't believe I've never thought about that. Eye-opening.
With Killer its either dive right in and learn the hard way from a repeated cycle of failures or do tons of video research on Killer to gain the knowledge from other people, either way you'll struggle much more. And spend much more time learning the basic and advanced knowledge for Killer than most Survivors will for their role.
That whole paragraph is extremely biased and unfounded. Learning players are in the same boat, regardless of the preferred role. And the resources to improve their gameplay are of the same kind.
Killers have a higher skill cap because there are many different powers. But you don't need to be a jack of all trades and you can simply focus on your favorites. That lowers the skill ceiling.
Being a (good) survivor has a big skill cap as well. This is not 2016-17 DbD anymore. Survivors too also face a variety of powers and they don't have the luxury of focusing on a particular killer to practice (unless KYF).
Proof is when killer mains like me try to play survivor and then they get decimated until they've practiced a ######### ton. If anyone thinks they can just clicky clicky their flashlight and instantly become the next Ussylis or Probbzzz or whomever, they're in for a rude awakening. They needed to use Bond alongside their flashlight (sorry, I couldn't resist).
Being bad at the game is easy, regardless of role. Being good at the game is hard, regardless of role. Again, this is not 2016-17 DbD anymore. And queues are not indicative of anything if the sample is not significant.
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I basically made this same post from a survivor point of view.
So sick and tired of scummy killers that just tunnel, eat the ds and carry on tunnelling. Or those who face camp and just ruin peoples day. You can moan all you like about salty Swf but as a solo survivor I have zero people to rely on 99% of games so if the killer decides to bully me out of a game, then I'm screwed. Which has literally been every game I've loaded for the past week. I've dropped from a rank 3 and struggling to pip in purple ranks this week because play has been so awful.
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I mostly play survivor but funny enough I've gotten more negative feedback from other survivors than killers. Although killers have to learn their power survivors also have to learn how to counter it and that's all of the killers not just the one you're playing as.
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You don't tell a Killer shortage just by one thing, but by two. When I play Killer, I get a match within three seconds. When I play Survivor we are talking 5-10 minutes. The two of those together is very telling. I also play throughout the day, and haven't noticed too huge a difference. And finally, it is about who you are being matched with. The worse the matchmaking, the shorter they are on Killers.
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It's the entitled survivor mentality. And survivor mains who sometimes plays killers in brown ranks and think they know the game to pass a unbias judgement and determine what is 'fair'.
They usually argue that the game is designed to have 'fun'. If it's not 'fun', it's the killers being toxic.
I am a survivor 99% and 1%killer. I'm loving all the killer nerfs but it's really sad what they are doing to the killers. Cuz the voice of the majority are the survivors who have a mob mentality. And killers are viewed as the agressors who sends death threats and violate some kind of invisible rule and claim it's actually a EULA violation issue.... In a dead by daylight game.... Where ur suppose to kill ... Even the name
Dead by daylight
Death is not an escape.
It just blows my mind.
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Idk how people can't see how flawed a 2v8 would be.
Survivor is at a loop.
Killer 1 loops from left to right.
Killer 2 loops from right to left.
Chase ends in 2 seconds.
Repeat & profit?
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I've been seeing a lot of people saying things like "survivors are toxic to killers who mess up" and I'm not disagreeing because agree with you but it's also the same for killers. Like I play both killer and survivor and both sides are toxic af. Survivors t-bag when they're doing good, killers tunnel and face camp when they're doing bad and neither sides can admit it. Just because the game isn't in the killers favor, it doesn't give you a right to toxic. Things like this is what's ruining the game. Killer mains think it's okay to be toxic because the games against them and survivor mains think that being toxic is okay because it's "funny" or it's "just to help them escape".
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Don't worry. Coordinated players in a group aren't that common.
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Your comment highlights one of the big problems with this game: the survivors rulebook for killers.
You call out killers for tunneling, but from a strategy point there's a lot of good reasons to tunnel. The reason not to tunnel is because it's not fun for the survivor to lose.
When it's the killer's job to play suboptimally so that their opponent can enjoy the game more, there's a problem.
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Back during the old Ruin days it used to be the other way around. I remember sitting in queue for 10+ minutes as killer to find a match and survivor queue was always instant.
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Matchmaking is a real issue when it comes to killer shortage. If you're a newer killer you are more likely to get matched against players with more experienced than not. This can be incredibly frustrating where I imagine the casual players just give up on the idea of playing the game as killer. I also feel incredibly bad for the people who picked up the game 2018+. You are just at such a disadvantage with the grind to ever catch up.
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My survivor Q time in the morning is instant and killer takes 10 minutes, and it's the opposite in the afternoon.
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To be fair, grinding out a meta build is not that difficult for either side. Ruin Undying is 2 characters. BT/DS/Unbreakable is also 2 characters.
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Probably not for people like us but that's a million blood points per character to unlock the teachables. That's plowing through each blood web the most efficient way possible. Then to get level 3 of each perk on the characters you actually want to use is just a crazy amount of grinding. I'm really amazed at how popular this game is for the amount of grinding you have to do.
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Just one word... toxicity.
Survivors toxicity is more seen. Why? Because there are four survivors, you might have three non-toxic survivors but you will always focus in that toxic nea with purple hair and a flashlight who knows how to run tiles and tries to be toxic at you... if you leave her and go for the rest, she will tank hits and make your match the most unfun and frustrating experience, if you decide to go at her, due to some reworked tiles there are many pallets so close to each other and she will run those tiles, spamming their flashlight, the other survivors will do gens and open the exit gate since you're not chasing them, so you will be frustrated trying to catch a toxic player who is clearly outplaying you and who is far better than you, just to be t-bagged at the end of the match.
Now, it's true that there are several good matches with non-toxic survivors but since there are so many bad ones, they will outnumber those good ones.
Notice this, top tier killers are killers who "break the rules" in some way. Nurse as an example can blink through pallets, windows and close big gaps in a few seconds. Spirit, when you're using her power, she can't be seen and your traveling speed is faster, of course that comes with the counter that you can't see survivors either. Hillbily, he can one-shot, not only that but he can break pallets with the one-shot as well, he can use his chainsaw to travel through the map at an insane speed.
Basically.. there are some bad map designs and there are just a few killers who are good enough to make it up for those bad designs.
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I mean, the game has given killers so many tools to deal with that. You can play any killer in the game into solo Q teams just fine.
There's a ton of anti-bully, anti-SWF perks in the game at this point.
There's literally a tunneling perk now (to go along with the king tunneler himself), called forced penance.
Just don't follow the survivor rulebook. The basic killer strategy if you are playing perkless/addonless is to tunnel the first guy off the hook; wait out BT, and then eat DS. Then you guard a 3 gen nearby until he dies or is saved and you finish him off. Since the games last around 5-6 minutes without slowdown; I never feel bad about killing someone in 2-3.
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Yeah, that would be really bad for Solo Survivor, I would not like to have to face 2 Killers at once.
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Well, perks are bandaid fixes. And in order for those bandaids player must either pay with real money or grind horribly in the game. Also, forced penance is not really a tunneling perk although it's good to know where those two healing survivors went.
I don't tunnel nor camp and I can do well with nurse's as an example. I am a main pig and I do very well with her but I mean, toxicity is indeed a problem and needs to be addressed.
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There will always be more survivors than killers cuz it's 2020 and most people wanna play games together.
It isn't anything deeper than that.
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I feel like matchmaking is the root of the problem.
That and boosted survivors, and swf are screwing up the spread of ranks/talent forcing matchmaking to suck.
If killers didn't have to deal with survivors of far higher ranks, survivor teams beyond their skill, and SWF gaming the system to power leveltheir buddies while stomping low rank killers, there might be a steadier amount of killers not only playing, but organically getting better instead of being thrown into the deep end while dumbasses say "git gud."
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I definitely consider it a tunneling perk. There's usually little reason for survivors to come take body block hits otherwise. I think you have it mistaken for deathbound which is more of a tracking perk. Forced penance is protection hits apply broken to the survivor for 80 seconds, which stops people with healing builds/medkits from constantly taking hits while you are trying to kill someone.
And yes you can do fine being a "nice" killer while playing the top tier killers in the game, or against potato survivors.
But going into a game as say, Clown or Wraith and trying for 12 separate hooks while letting survivors unhook and heal for free against a good team is a great way to lose.
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Did you even read what I said? What is the connection between 2v8 and swf?
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Higher skill cap, sure, but I'd argue lower skill floor. Have you seen actual noobie survivors? The faintest heartbeat sends them scurrying away from gens to the edge of the map. They don't know how to loop or hide and go down in almost as much time as it takes for the Killer to recover from a swing.
Killers dominate low rank matches, but Survivors (assuming they're not against 50 winstreak Otz) tend to do better once they figure out how they can loop and genrush as a team.
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I'm on the NA west coast and I get instant survivor times till about 6pm, then it switches and I get instant killer queues. In both cases the other is usually a 5 minute wait till about 430 when you can feel the changing of the guard.
Naturally I'm not asking where exactly you live but what timezone are you abouts if you are comfortable with that. Super curious if it lines up.
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There just needs to be more incentive to queue as killer. Perhaps something like they do in some MMO's where if you queue for a specific role that is lacking people (Tank or Healer), you get bonus items or experience. Since killer is always lacking in the queue compared to survivor, there should be a BP multiplier based on how badly the difference of Killer to Survivors there are in queue. The worse the difference, the higher the BP and it lessens if the queues are better: x5 BP, then x3, then x2, then x1.5, something like that.
Also something that would help that was mentioned earlier is duo killer mode because as of currently, I play DBD the most when I play with my girlfriend and since it's 2 of us, our only choice is survivor even though both of us prefer killer. So until such a thing exists, it's mostly Survivor until you can play with friends as killer.
Post edited by FogLurker on8 -
Survivors whine if they lose killers whine if they lose. Whine whine whine. This community is the worse. Play the game have fun. Or move on. You guys are a miserable lot I tell you
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Oh yes, I have mistaken it. And yes, I understand your point.
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People scared they play survivor
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Well, it would be against logic to not have killers with unique "game-defying properties" to perform better than others. Having Nurse go through walls and pallets will of course make her better, but at least that is something you can counter with some observation. Nothing like that against Spirit, for instance, who you need a perk to counter. But that's not the point I want to make. The thing is, what you are stating is pretty obvious, friend. It would be like having a player start out as a Juggernout in a normal CoD multiplayer match, ofc he's gonna get a long way ahead any other player, before you can take him down.
As for toxicity, having a game turn out like that is the killer's fault, really. I had a match the other day, where I was playing as the Trapper. Guess who I went against? An OoO player. You know, those that try everything to get your attention and make you chase them? And what's the solution there? There is a saying, quite true in some cases: "Ignorance is bliss". Ignore him, go for other survivors and focus on them. He will spend some time doing nothing, still desperately trying to get your attention (especially if you fake going for him), turning the game into a 3v1 for quite some time. Back to my match, as I said, I was the Trapper, which means he was my main counter. He disabled a lot of my traps, but that didn't really stop him from joining the rest of his teammates in the Entity's graveyard. If you start losing your cool because of that one guy, or two guys whose main objective is to make you fall for that, you're not gonna have fun, ofc. But that changes if you make them play by your own rules. And FYI, my Trapper isn't maxed yet, lacks key slowdown perks and I despise tunneling and camping, which means I'm not gonna do that, unless I find some very toxic players and feel like giving them the rod.
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Honestly i hope its not a killer shortage and this is anecdotal because the past week has been garbage for trying to get a survivour game. Solo queue full swf its nightmarishly long irregardless. From what ive seen and heard im getting weird rank killer when i tough it out who all seem to be saying there getting survivours in red ranks when there god damn greens.
Something has to be done if this continues. The tools for learning killer are garbage. Concepts like slugging gen pressure and picking your chases is nowhere to be seen upon as you advance in dbd. The only way i can recomend dbd to a friend is through survivour I can coach him through these games but a killer game thats hard as hell to teach.
Don't get me wrong i love killer decision trees and the skills that defines a killer is amzing to master once you got the basics. But someone needs to crackdown on the toxicity. Maybe that facecamping green rank bubba is out of his depth and desperatly wants one kill. Maybe that wraith who noed your friend is struggling and just want to beat a tome mission.
Nah its all lost on the survivour player base who will cry ironically murder that a player use a tactic that a new player can easily execute. Which of course results in the killer continue to abuse these nasty tactics because you gave them a reason to continue playing "scummy". Maybe offer advice, instead of moaning about your lack of enjoyment. Offer tips and tricks to the bubba that lost 3 gens then facecamped the first survivour he downed.
The skill floor for survivour is much lower. The skill floor for killer is nightmarishly high and to all the survivours who cant control there temper driving new players away by berating them is gonna push you up against the sweaty killers who will 4 man slugs your ass in the first 5 minutes.
Tldr dont grt mad a player is using an underhanded tactic or perk/item. Point your anoyance at it and ask for tips. If there rude ggs em and move on. For new killers disable chat the minute crap gets thrown your direction.
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you are 1000% right... the killer can tunnel, camp or do things... I love it when survivors dc on me because i get to report them as exploiting (as they leave in match functionality to click that button) as it robs the other players of points and challenge progression. but it's all about the survivor rule book for the killer... not at all a thing on the other side. It's really shown in the samination videos... they are hilarious but it really highlights the survivor mentality regarding killers.
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I don't understand this mindset. If you are losing 3 gens within 2 minutes of the game starting you are making HUGE mistakes. Just because you start a chase does not mean you need to end it with a down. You need to be able to look at what is available to the survivor and judge if you can down them in a timely manner. If not, get a hit? Go check a gen. Get a pallet? Go check a gen. Mindlessly tunneling someone until they are down and losing 3 gens because of it is your fault.
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I think that’s why having the rift is so important: it gives survivor mains a reason to play killer at least for a little while. If you’re trying to complete the rift you wind up noticing that many of the killer challenges are cake compared to the survivor ones and you can use them as shortcuts to the end of levels. “Chase survivors for 300 seconds”? You don’t have to be good to that, and it’s actually a lot easier to do if you aren’t!
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That's why I barely play survivor. You can't control what kind of a match it'll be. That and gens are a snooze fest. Then, the meta exists but I don't really run any meta perks. More of a Flip Flop and pebble kinda gamer. But that means, because I deviate from the norm, killers see me as a big break and an excuse to tunnel. As killer I can kinda just choose to kick ass if I want. It's always as fun as I can make it. That being said, people treat us killer players like ######### because everybody lacks perspective. Even the tome can't change that.
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like i could talk about the actual text of this post but all i want to say is that the term "killer shortage" is really funny imo
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What's good for the goose is good for the gander ;,)
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Because I tend to be a little sensitive to the "hahagetgud" chants when I tried my clucking best and just couldn't get on a roll, I now force myself to play with the mindset of "this is just for fun". Clown is just to throw bottles at and intoxicate people. Deathslinger is just target practice. Myers is just being a voyeur because he's creepy like that. Freddy is just a little ######### who calls everyone else a #########.
This way, if I get a kill? Hey! Great! But if I get clicky clicky teabag at the gates Enh whatever I had fun.
If I try to kill, I get blasted. If i try to chill, I get blasted.
As surv, if a gate is open, I run out when I can. I don't teabag, I don't clicky clicky unless trying to show the killer something. I have respect for the person on the other side of the keyboard. I know I'm alone in that but I'm fine with that.
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I'm on the east coast, normally till around 4 pm survivor wait times are a minute or two for me. Around 7/8 pm they go to 8-10 mins.
I've only ever played for survivor, since I started playing about two months ago. Never had any complaints about how killers play. I get frustrated, when they keep going for me over and over, and end up getting hooked 3 times and sacrificed in the start of the game.
I've never felt that was the killers fault though, my complaints are always with other survivors, if I'm getting chased around, leading the killer away from other survivors, and no generators are completed, or I spectate the remainder of the match, to see people just hiding in lockers, I generally have something to say about it, but still let the killer know it was a good game on their part.
I've also had plenty of killers who spent the majority of the match finding only me working on and completing gens, and after realizing it, leaving me alone and finishing everyone else off and letting me escape, which I've always seen as good sportsmanship. I appreciate that, especially after long queue times, and having 4 or 5 matches in a row, where I can't do anything, because everyone is just waiting for the hatch, unhooking me in the terror radius seconds after I'm being hooked, and getting me immediately downed and hooked again, or running straight to me still being a chased trying to get healed when I have a generator 90% done, instead of leading them away to give me time to finish.
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EU servers. So UK timezone
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Or maybe there is just not enough people queueing to make a match in your region.
I think doing what you suggested and making a lobby require 8 survivors and 2 killers would make it worse, not better.
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You claim OPs entire premises is biased and yet you sound like an angry survivor trying to straw man the entire post with a series of, " No hub's!" and offering no real justification.
The fact of the matter is that anyone that's played this game especially survivors will tell you that first time survivors rarely pick it up and play by themselves first. As the game has gained more popularity and especially with the online community, there are several places on both this forum as well as places like Reddit and Facebook where you can find a pickup game of people that will run you through and teach you. Couple that with the fact that the The devs hold survivor's hands so much so, that the game will identify the first time you ever play against a killer by giving you hot tips during the loading screen.
I'm not sure who you're trying to fool or prove yourself to here, but the implicit bias in your entire statement is a joke. If you're a killer main, talking like that, then I'm a freaking hamster.
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Get gud
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This is how a game gets balanced like this everyone here complains to their hearts content just tell survivors to shut up or leave you sit in end game chat because you want to and then everyone here says "survivors or so toxic" this community is a bunch of snowflakes
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This is me. I'm a rank 12 who gets paired with red ranks (with 1 rank 10-14 player) 8 out of 10 games. It's discouraging, not fun or fair. I'm not learning how to get better or succeed.
I want to play and have fun. Unwind after a stressful day at work and murder some survivors!
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