How are keys unbalanced?

in order for hatch to spawn, a certain ratio between remaining generators and alive survivors must be met.

in short, there must be one more gen repaired than people alive.

this means that each time the killer kills someone, it gets easier for the remaining survivors to escape. which means the killer is actively being punished for killing someone, while the remaining survivors get rewarded for letting their friend(s) die.

and due to the games current balance (given that it is indeed a trial with both sides being relatively equal in skill level), unless you hardtunnel someone, you should start killing people around the 3 to 4 repaired gens mark - which in return means that a single kill can mean defeat for the killer - and dont say repairing gens was a hard task.

keys not only cut the games they are in short, they also actively reward failure on the survivor side and punish success on the killer side.

additionally keys widen the gap between solo and SWF groups, as with solo players getting a coordinated key escape is almost impossible (the key guy just ends up dooming everyone else by starting EGC), while coordinated SWFs will just hardcore genrush, then scan the map with 3 or 4 ppl at the same time and then all meet up at hatch to make their group escape.

especially the later is an issue that is hardly going to be fixable, unless we force everyone to bring their own key to make their escape (and even that wouldnt fully get rid of it).

so in conclusion: keys are unhealthy for this game as they actively reward survivor failure and additionally widen the gap between solo and SWF teams.

if i was in charge of a key change, id do the following:

• an interruptable hatch open animation (dunno if thats gotta be 10 seconds, but it should be long enough so the survivor cant just jump into hatch mid chase / in the killers face)
• keys will only allow the key holder to escape with them, however i'd introduce two new add ons (one very rare and one ultra rare) that would allow for the other 3 to escape aswell (VR = +1 escapee, UR = +2 escapees). this would ensure that the player bringing the key can not keep holding on to it by bringing add ons for keeping their item uppon death / usage
• keys are no longer lootable from chests
• removal of dull keys
• rework of the hatch spawn mechanic to only make it available once the exits are powered / only one survivor is left alive.

You get a third option for the end game + the benefits of key addons.

Isnt the only achievment the 4man hatch escape? It wouldnt change.

You can still use a key as last survivor when the killer closes the hatch.

If you and your team are getting 3 genned than that is on you and your team for not thinking about it.

As a team you F up and still get a pity escape to reward you for making a mistake.

If you see your getting forced in a 3 gen than force it around.

I've been 3 gen myself because my team was just going from 1 gen onto another without thinking about splitting it up,i don't care if I don't escape because we as a team didn't play it smart.

Other times when I see the killer is trying to force a 3 gen, I try to force it around or try to get my team to force it around.

You shouldn't be rewarded for making mistakes.

actually killers have had mori challenges in the rift before. where you had to kill survivors by your hand. It is not in this rift but there is one where that is needed ALSO there was the kill everyone in the same match, because this is not easy and mori's came in very useful for that challenge but the worst part is all the dcs from seeing the hidden offering.

I would love for those challenges to dissapear, they are such a pain in the bum.

That said i feel the key change will be a bit more complex then what i said. Based on what they said

I believe that requirement was by any means necessary.

Or to put it simple wether it was by mori or plain simple by hooking and sacrificing every single survivor.

I have this challenge done I believe (have to check on this) and never mori any of them

The number of gens that need to be completed to allow everyone still alive to escape through the Hatch with a key goes down by 1 with each death. Each Survivor that dies will effectively result in a gen automatically being completed if a non-green Key is in play. Not as OP as Moris, but absolutely not balanced.

Also, Franklin's is still a bad counter to keys. If it counted for whenever a Key was put onto the ground instead of only whenever you smacked it out of their hands, then we might have a somewhat different situation (though then that still does not help against Keys found in a chest).

me either.. Oni, Spirit, Legion all have GREAT mori's :) only really bland ones are wraith and trapper..... not a fan of blight's though

Why because your precious key will be removed?

Big deal

Yes I know his will sounds like a them vs them, but think about mori, the survivors escape and the killer didn't mori anyone, does he keep the offering?

Nope, exactly they don't.

And getting skill checks with the risk of breaking the key will be a high risk high reward.

Beside you can, I believe, attached add ons to it where it shows you where the hatch is.

So making it easier for you to find the hatch before the killer does.

I'm talking about a key out of your inventory here of course, as a lot of people stack them I presume.

Also it is an idea, just like you asked of me.

Nothing is final, there is room for change, like make it that a key isn't affected by those add ons or perks.

And hitting a reverse skill check is far from difficult.

No, it's fine. I completely understand you.

Even if we disagree, I understand what you're experiencing. I feel gaslighted too, because I see hatch as a dumb mechanic but nobody else does.

I would be happier if the devs took it away entirely.

So what if I don't escape, I don't care, I play for the chases and to get all others out.

The hatch is just some pity mechanic.

Oh you and your team F'ed up?

Don't you guys worry, you can still escape trough the hatch.

Ofcourse we can't have it where 4 survivors screw up as a team and not escaping now can we?

So dumb and well undeserved

Gee, i'm not sure. Something about survivors escaping after only 3 gens have been done(which takes 80 seconds between the team), or all the survivors escaping without having to do the exit gates. It is actually robbing the killer player of half the match.

I am only playing the BS killers until they get nerfed. I see them way too much currently. There is little to no answer to them since the mori nerf, except playing an OP killer.

Finally someone understands! A breath of fresh air!

Once upon a time I played solo. Now it's SWF or no survivor at all. Hatch is a band aid fix for this game's matchmaking problems, because you're never really gonna need it if you have decent teammates that get gens done and run the killer. And that's the problem, is that you consistently get matched with purple ranks who play like rank 20s, because rank matchmaking isn't a replacement for MMR.

And on top of helping solos escape because they had bad teammates, it's a bonus option for SWF because they can perfectly coordinate a key escape, leaving the killer in a lose-lose situation.

If hatch is based off of the possibility that you got bad teammates, I mean what kind of game are we playing? Do solos as well as non-solos need something like that consistently? It just needs to be fixed or gotten rid of, because I make no exaggeration when I say it is the root of many of this game's problems.

I really invite you to watch my vids on YouTube then.

DennisvanEijk1980

You'll see I only play solo because I believe it is way more fun this way.

Don't make assumptions about someone who you don't know anything about 😉✌️

Woukd work too. I think it would be more similar to the mori change in usefulness. So they cant skip the exit gate opening.