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how is this game survivor sided tell me?
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I'm gonna go through this trying to be as unbiased as possible ( since being completely unbiased is impossible no matter if you play both sides )
1. I feel the bad match making system is as much of an issue for killers as it is for survivors
example 1
A newer killer gets ranked against good survivors and gets completely stomped and possibly harassed with how most survivors high rank are toxic (not all just a majority)
Example 2
A good survivor or 2 can be punished into a horrid match because other survivors are getting destroyed by a higher rank killer making it a unfair match for the 2 left
Given both of those examples the survivors still have a good chance of escape in the end because keys or 1 gets the hatch, the game basically giving 1 or 2 survivors a free win (even though its not their fault they had bad teamates). In the killers case he gets nothing since he is the "power role" that is solo, even though he isn't at fault for the match making the game giving him 0 opportunity for a free win or some sort of relief from a loss.
On both sides of this there are issues but killer has 0 relief from these problems while survivors have 3 (counting end game after killer closes hatch giving survivors another chance to escape)
2. People with McDonalds wifi are again an issue for both sides, the devs are trying to find a way to stop the abuse of it.
3. Maps that are re worked into giving the killer a better chance shouldnt be an issue after maps like Haddon field, farm, and the game being maps heavily favored by survivors since they cater to keeping them safe even if they make mistakes that should otherwise give the killer a hit not to mention the addition of perks into all of that.
Bloodlust is a mechanic that barely does anything for the killer 8/10 times, a stack of bloodlust takes 15 seconds. Add a looping survivor to add another 15 seconds, the survivor drops the pallet at the loop and runs to the next tile to repeat and the killer looses that stack on the pallet or a hit after about 40 seconds to be fair. Now repeat that chase with the likely inclusion of deadhard and no use of God pallets, the other 3 survivors would typically be on gens and 3 generators would pop completing 3/5 of the survivors objective and only 1/12 of the killers.
4. Hit boxes aren't that big of an issue, you already have way too many benefits as a survivor to escape a hit from the killer to then require them to give you a hug everytime to hit you
5. Killers are only solo q, against a full team of good survivor solo q or not it is a massive task to do. But also in that case survivors do suffer from bad teammates whether it be intentional or not, its a team effort for survivor its gonna happen just report if its intentional, if not then get the devs to fix matching.
6. I see alot of perks that have been added in recently get fair amounts of use and are decent in practice if used correctly, killers before hand had very few perks even worth taking and most perks are extremely situational i.e. territorial imperative, hangman trick and so on. Killers getting viable perks shouldn't be met with hate since they had very few to pick from before hand compared to the large pool of survivor perks that SHOULDN'T be massive game changers since its 12 perks vs the killers 4.
7. You shouldn't have to rely on meta perks to win the game, nonetheless your not gonna survive every match just like killers don't win every match. Don't blame your loss on your perks since you have pallets, windows, and loops to help you escape the killer and those are much more consistent than the killers power anyway.
Things like tunneling and camping are already punished by the game with DS and the loss of points for being near a hook. If tunneling is still an issue after DS being such a strong perk already then stop defending perks that strong and ask for an actual fix instead of being afraid to lose a crutch perk. I find camping and tunneling to be boring and unfair gameplay, but don't be surprised if someone tunnels you or camps you to get a chance at winning the game, blame the balancing for forcing killers to have to play "un fair", 3 gens popping in the first chase in unfair too but it still happens its literally the objective just like killing is for the killer.
8. There used to be way to many pallets on each map and have been rightfully reduced. If you find pallets to be a valuable resource then don't throw them down instantly and loop, if you teammate does it then do gens. Pallets aren't supposed to be there every time you need them they are a resource you should use with caution i.e. don't put down pallets after you get hit. The amount of pallets on each map can still be an issue for killers but is much more fair then before. And you wanting there to be more God pallets in the game is ridiculous, you can mind game unsafe pallets and loop them the escape the killer if you can't then stay in brown ranks.
Breakable walls being added into the game have added in almost nothing to the killers advantage and most actually serve to help the survivors and force killers to break them even though they didn't exist in that doorway before, they are a laughable add into the game and only function as a waste of time killers most likely can't spend.
9. Did I mention insta heals? DS lockers? 4 man key escapes? Not to mention they keep trying to find a way to nerf killers with viable abilities because anything that can't be bullied is overpowered.
The change on moris was horrid since they now serve absolutely no purpose other than to see the animation.
But survivors looping killers for 2 minutes is fair
Ds/ub is fair
4 man Perfect parts is fair
But all you will probably say is that I'm not a good enough killer to deal with all of that.
10. Saying that the game is unbalanced is 100% true, lower ranks the killer dominates since survivor don't know how to play against the killer yet, but high ranks its abysmal how long you can waste a killers time because of a God loop with 2 health stages insta heals and deadhards with ds. Killers in the end have it harder then survivors because in the higher ranks the survivors have as much power as the killer, and with them being a 4 v 1. They are are not trapped in there with you your trapped in there with them t-bagging and clicking the flashlight before harassing you at post match, and if you do win you will likely get harassed any way.
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I'm so tired of killers acting like they have it worse and survivors have it easy.... BULLSHIT. I've always been a survivor in dead by daylight and 80% killers win. The killer always get more blood points and sometimes when they lose they still get more, but survivors get little some matches. I feel like this game is more set up for killers and for killers to win more. Stop acting like it's soooooo hard to be a killer. Killers have supernatural #########' abilities and killers like "The legion" kills survivors with in 4 minutes because he runs faster than survivors and then we never have time to fix gens... And like that the game is over and survivors don't get no bloodpoints hardly and the killer got more, and so now the game is over. I played killer for the first time to see if it was easy to be killer and..... I won, it was VERY easy, I didn't even have to do much and I found that so sad that it was so easy for me to win without no ad-on's, on the killer I had and I was a noob at being the killer so I was surprised and it makes me super sad and pissed off for killers to sit there and say being a killer is the hardest thing ever in dbd and survivors have it easy.I don't care what nobody says... This game is killer sided and they have more of an advantage then survivors and this game is harder for survivors... I'm glad you brung up this discussion, because in dbd it's definitely not Survivor sided... It's killer sided.
Edit: I just played dbd as a survivor literally a second ago and this picture proves my point
It was a very short match and I have a video of what happened but I don't know how to post that soooo yep. But anyways sometimes I get this many bloodpoints even when player don't disconnect. The killer got lots of bloodpoints in this one short match while I hardly get known some matches.
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I agree with alot of what you say except leatherface, and flashlights. Those are pretty fire. I actually love the new beam angle.
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The game is exceedingly balanced over all, but the SWF and random lobbies are what's causing the sheer divide in individual cases. Even duos are far more potent than just full random parties.
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- The killer was running bbq
- You aren't even purple ranks yet. The game is super killer sided in grey, yellow, and green ranks because it's so easy for survivors to rank up so they get put in matches with killers that are better. Once you get to around rank 3 or play in an SWF you'll understand where everyone who says killers have it bad are coming from.
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That oni was bad don't cherry pick bad killers to prove a point.
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I wouldn't say he was bad we just played really really well.
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Renjiros bloody glove vs 4 man no mother I beg to differ.
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The thing is, currently the game is Killer sided only because survivors are potatoes. The few who do understand the game and are a threat to Killers will demolish Killers. If matchmaking was actually a thing, then survivors would be OP once they hit probably high-green ranks. Gens are too easy to do, too easy to split pressure on, and too short for Killers to do anything against competent survivors. THAT'S why survivors are getting nerf after nerf after nerf: because we aren't balancing around the people who still think it's 2016 where the game was hide and seek. We are balancing around the people who actually know how to play the video game.
Survivors have SWF and Keys, yes, but they also have the meta perks. Funny how you said "all survivors have is SWF and keys that's it" but then earlier you said this:
6.Killers become stronger with every patch + new good perks like the new meta Tinkerer, Undying, Ruin while survivors get useless perks.
7.except the meta perks DS, UB, BT, IW, Adre etc you're screwed and rely on your teammates (have fun relying on the urbaning and self caring megs) also as soon you dont use that perks you get either hard camped or tunneled.
You just named 5 meta perks while there are more on top of not comparing the strength of Tinkerer/Ruin/Undying to DS/Unbreakable/Sprint Burst/Iron Will.
Furthermore, let's take a look at the last 4 chapters shall we?
Chains of Hate: 1 useless survivor perk, 1 decent but insanely fun perk, 1 super strong in SWF perk | 3 absolute trash tier Killer perks
Silent Hill: 2 moderately strong but hella fun survivor perks, 1 almost meta (probably meta now) survivor perk | 2 fun killer perks, 1 absolutely useless perk
Descend Beyond: 1 super power powerful perk (power crept version of another), 1 useless perk, 1 strong perk | 1 meta-changing Killer perk, 1 really bad perk, 1 perk that makes people question the devs more than "pretty good job so far"
A Binding of Kin: 1 really good perk, 1 fun-ish perk, 1 incredibly fun and decently strong perk | 1 OK-ish Killer perk, 2 absolute meme perks
So, yeah, I'd say your stance on how good the perks for both sides are is pretty inaccurate.
2.Dedicated servers, most killers have such a high latency that they will get undeserved hits on you 90% of the time.
yeah, and grabs are impossible and you can get stuck for the rest of the game attempting a grab. Also, not a ton of Killers have insanely high latency. Every Killer I face has 90ms or less of ping
3.Maps, reworked or new maps are full with unsafe pallets, dead ends and as if that isnt enough there is a game mechanic named "Bloodlust"
Bloodlust needs to go for the most part. I don't think anyone except potato Killers agree on this (personally, I'd say keep BL 1, but that's just me)
and here comes the next issue, devs havent done anything about camping and tunneling meanwhile they rework maps with deadends, keep bloodlust in the game, make the ranking completely a clown fiesta, 90% pallets, dedi servers, hitboxes etc
8.Ressources are limited (pallets, windows) while there are no good tilesets spawning anymore, reworked main buildings and IF you just need to break a wall.
you also need to deal with 90% of unsafe pallets, aka bloodlust pallets + everything i mentioned like servers, hitboxes, dead ends etc
Reworking the maps with dead zones is a flaw in the system. I'm pretty sure this was not intentional, and will be addressed in 9 years.
Resources are limited, and that's a bad thing? Imagine if pallets respawned like hooks after a sabo. That would be stupid OP. Good tiles still spawn. They aren't one after another after another like they used to, which is good because that was also stupid OP.
Furthermore, I don't think you realize that holding W is almost as strong as looping, since the killer runs a measly 15% faster than you, which isn't much.
Hitboxes are fine-ish. They could be shrunk, but just as soon as survivors don't turn at Mach speed.
Reworking main buildings so they aren't borderline infinites? Oh the humanity! Oh, adding breakable walls that wastes the Killer's time because the devs aren't good at map design? Oh, what are we going to do?
Most pallets are pretty safe once thrown if you can loop well, so I have no idea wut ur on about with "90% unsafe pallets"
but i know what people will say "SWF exists" thats all what they will say. and my respond to you stop acting like everyone plays SWF. stop blaming your bad decisions on SWF all the time.
How insulting. You're not even opening up to the possibility that people might have thought out arguments to yours, which is not only rude, but ignorant as well. Also, it makes you look like an #########.
but honestly let me hear what you have to say. maybe you can change my mind.
I hope so, because you have one flawed mentality my friend.
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in the current game, there are only 2 situations where killers are in disadvange vs survs... a full premade with lot of hours, or running a weak killer trying to play "fair"... rest of cases, killers have very good chances to make great games and get 4K relatively easy.
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Since rank reset all its been is
Low rank players on my team who do nothing in the game. clearly new to the game.
and purple/green hard camping killers. to throw the cherry on top, most of them were RUIN/UNDYING killers. what more do they want? iknow SWF players get a bad rep and rightly so but killers also bring it on themselves with their playstyles and sweat builds. The stats show killers are getting more kills than survivors are escaping. they really need that BLOODLUST though.........
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I don't get ranks at all to be honest, I have never cared for them either, so a rank can affect a whole match???? And I'm still sticking to my opinion but, tell me.... How can a rank affect a match or even killers????
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one word:
matchmaking. (Which is busted anyway)
Regardless, it's not deniable that in higher ranks you are a little more likely to go up against worse players, and vice versa. And that killer was a waaay lower rank than you. This could mean two things:
A. The game's balance is bad
B. You're bad
Take your pick.
(I'd also like to add that one of your teammates DC'd so that basically lost you the match already, plus you had terrible teammates if we're only going by rank. So the outcome wasn't really decided by the killer. It was decided when your teammate left.)
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Don't listen to people who tell you the game's survivor sided, they are still stuck in 2016 dbd and have no idea about how the game is played at high level.
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Because this community can't live without their conspiracy theories such as "game is survivor sided™", "I go against a navy seals swf team every other game", "all survivors are bully tbaggers", "we only lost because you camped and tunneled™" and/or "The game is full of year-old bugs and every patch breaks it even more"...wait no, that one's actually true.
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yeah still broken reveal mech lol
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thing like that why this game shouldn't be a competitive game yes it pvp but it meant like party game for horror fans like the smash thing people treat it like acompetitive fighting game but more like party game but it don't stop people treating it like a competitive game.
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In theory, but I would say that killers winning trials in 4 minutes is much more frequent than the survivors winning in 4 minutes.
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Let me break down some math for you, i have posted this before so i'll just copy what i have because the point still stands:
The problem is that the game actually is survivor sided when you look at tournaments and top level play. If it wasn't, then nurse wouldn't be the only viable killer. The math itself doesn't add up and shows that under optimal conditions, a killer can't win. Let's look at what a perfectly efficient team does.
Facts:
- Gens take 80 seconds each.
- Survivors move at 4.0 m/s
- Killers (most) move at 4.6 m/s
- Killers (most) have a 32 meter terror radius.
- Killer lunge range is 6 meters (generally you wait until 4-5 meters for dead hard, and to not get spun etc.)
- A survivor moves at 6.0 m/s for 2 seconds after getting hit.
The scenario:
- Match starts, every survivor splits up onto different gens.
- Killer runs to opposite side of the map (where survivors likely spawn)
- Crossing the maps takes 15-20 seconds depending on the map and killer.
- Assuming you instantly find a survivor in that time (which can be rare) this takes about 15 seconds.
- Lets pretend for a minute, the survivor doesn't use windows, or pallets, or anything, and they just hold w, as soon as they see the killer.
- As soon as the killer terror radius at 32 meters, survivor looks around for the killer. Human reaction time can be around .25 seconds, but let's say you have to look around to find which direction the killer is coming from and it takes 3 seconds (which is very generous). The killer is now 32 - (4.6 x 3), or 18.2 meters away.
- You now know where the killer is coming from, and hold w in the opposite direction.
- Killer needs to get within 4.5 meters of you to lunge (accounting for lag, getting spun etc.). The killer gains .6 meters per second. Getting within 4.5 meters takes 22.8 seconds (i'll even round down for you)
- It is now 15 + 22 = 37 seconds for the first hit (remember no pallets, or windows, or anything, just holding w).
- Killer is able to gain 1 meter while cleaning their weapon for 3 seconds. The survivor uses their speed boost to move 16 meters, which means the killer is 15 meters away.
- It takes the killer another 17.5 seconds to get within 4.5 meters to lunge. Again, i'll even round down for you.
- This is now a down in 15 + 22 + 17 = 54 seconds.
- It takes 3 seconds to walk up and pick up the survivor, and another 10-15 seconds to walk to a hook, and it takes 1.5 seconds to hook the survivor. This time is 3 + 10 + 1.5 = 14.5 seconds (again i'll even round down and say 14 seconds)
- The first hook now took 15 + 22 + 17+ 14 = 68 seconds.
- Gen times are 80 seconds.
- During this time the other 3 survivors work on a generator, you now lose 3 generators
- Rinse and repeat, but now you have 1 survivor on a gen, 1 survivor on hook, 1 in a chase and another rescuing and healing, so it is a bit slower, but you still lost 3 gens in that early game.
Keep in mind. This ignores pallets. It ignores perks. It ignores windows. It ignores looping. This is literally just holding w for as long as possible. If a team plays efficiently, and hits the gens hard like they should, a killer can never win. The only exception to this, is killers who can shorten that chase window, like nurse, spirit, huntress (arguable), deathslinger, etc. Because you can't hold w against them. Now when you factor in pallets, windows, looping, etc. This basically means nurse and spirit are really the only viable killers at top level play, because all it takes as a killer is for you to guess wrong ONCE in a chase, and you just lost 10-15 seconds either catching up to that survivor again, or abandoning the chase to find another one.
Now, you might say "well you should get the first hit, then go find another survivor on a gen". And you are right, this is generally optimal. But now imagine that scenario i mentioned, where you do that. It took you 15 + 22 seconds, to find the first survivor and hit them once. It takes a survivor 16 seconds to heal. Now all they do is heal, and start hitting a gen and the scenario repeats itself. Now you can maybe do this only once or twice depending on your medkit. But by the time your team runs out, you easily could complete multiple generators.
This is the problem with the game. When survivors play perfectly, a killer can't win. A killer has to win by survivors making mistakes. There isn't a way for a killer to truly win a game against an efficient team if they play perfectly.
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I play with a full group, we all have mics, we know where the killer is and avoid him even seeing us 70% of the time.
Its impossible for one person to attack four of us at once, so with one person dedicated to gens and one person running the killer in circles and the other two swapping out when the one gets injured.
Its about 20minute wait to get into the match and it doesnt last longer then 5 minutes to do gens and walk out.
Sure every killer can use his power to catch one of us. But by the time he has we've already waisted minutes of his time in the process.
We havent missed a skillcheck in years, if we make any mistake our perks are litterally an undo button and together we have 12 undos.
I honestly cant think of a time our group "lost" 1 dead is about as bad as it can go. We are causal, we are not good, and we dont know the maps just meta perks and rush
This game is exceedingly easy for survivors in all aspects.
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Your scenario is only based on your theory. The reality is that in no way are the other 3 survivors working on a gen during that time. I'm a survivor main and I'll tell you that this never happened. There will most likely be 2 survivors working on a gen at the start.
Also, your killer data is inaccurate. See, there's this thing called Bloodlust and it makes the killer faster to catch its prey. It does not take a killer 17 seconds to cross from one side of the map to the other and your lunge time seems to be based on a normal killer attack, which killers rarely use and why should they when their lunge is very effective against the poor hitboxes of the survivors?
Bottom line is, while some killers are much stronger than others, they all can end a match in 4 minutes or less. Yes, survivors can end a match quickly, but in all the games that I've played, the ratio for fast killer victories to survivors is at least 3 to 1, so I disagree with your data.
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Survivor's objective i think also is just too easy, If i were ti implement something else, id have it stir randomly each trial between what the objective is, Gens, EX., Ex. That would be cool
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Right, i'm removing as many variables as possible, so we aren't counting looping, pallets, windows, perks, or killer powers. But i'm saying that when you factor those back in, the problem is just as bad, which is why only a handful of killers are viable at top level play.
The other thing you bring up about saying that the other 3 survivors aren't working on gens. This is a low level, solo queue problem. I'm talking about the ideal scenario, when both the survivor and killer play perfectly, that it is impossible for killer to win.
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True but the main point to take from this is that the survivors objective is much easier and faster to complete than the killers objective.
That is if you consider getting all 12 hooks without slugging, tunneling and camping the killers objective. Basically, if you play in a fun and healthy way.
I'd argue there's some killer sided stuff as well in the game. So far the devs have been doing an overall good job to make the odds more even for both sides I think, aside from some weird and questionable choices.
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People tend to play the power role. So the easiest way to see if the game is killer or survivor sided is simply looking at which side has longer queues during prime time.
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Oh yea 2 of us were drunk also lol
Also I think it's fair I can take that example to prove a point.
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This game is not survivor sided, not on your average game, not even in those random 4man swfs everyone complains about. It might be survivor sided when you get that 1 every 100 game 4man of 5k+ hrs survivors that know every aspect of the game, and still if the killer is experienced, the game can turn out quite balanced (even if try hard).
This forum is just an echo chamber of bad killers and viewers of *certain* streamers. But killer has never been this easy. I would like to see all these people playing dbd as it was a couple of years ago.
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I gotcha and thanks for a rational reply, don't see too much of that with all the toxicity around here. If both survivor and killer were to play perfectly, I would say the edge goes slightly to the killer, 60/40, because of their abilities it gives them a slight advantage. If I'm understanding your point, if a killer is just a killer swinging their weapon, then they would have a harder time of it, but I don't think the game is meant to be played that way.
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I think there should be a Hide n' Seek mode where you have 10, 15, or maybe 20 minutes with generators not present on the maps and you just run around trying to kill everybody before the time runs out and the killer is grabbed by HP Lovecraft if anybody is left standing and the survivors left get a brief reprieve and thrown into another arena. That would be a more fun game than the one we got right now. Probably for both sides.
Hopefully next year's Evil Dead game totally shits on this one and forces them to step up their game pun intended. But I've eaten words like those with two other games now so dbd seems to have some sort of divine protection or I happen to curse any games I think will pull people away from this one.
These devs have no clue just how lucky they are lol. They managed to maintain a small but steady playerbase with no competition around for years in the genre, and would be competitors were ruined by copywrong bs and straight up abandonment in one case. I wouldn't squander that good fortune if I were these devs since it's not gonna last them forever. A much, much better game with an attractive IP WILL come sooner or later. I'm gonna straight up say that covid probably saved this game from some horrible decisions and patches later in the year by giving some nice bumps to player count earlier in the year. It would be about the only business that isn't some monopoly that stay at home bs saved.
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I think the easiest way to answer op is point out dbd tournaments.
Survivors never lose. It becomes a 'who loses less' survivors when it's their turn. The killer isn't even expected to do well.
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Well I'm not a bad player and second of all when my teammate disconnected, I already knew we were about to lose so I pick neither I think the killer was a just a good player and I honestly feel like that gameplay still wasn't fair in my opinion (even if my teammate didn't disconnect). I've been playing this game for almost a year now and I feel like the matches I play sometimes is ridiculous because of the killer. To me ranks will never matter because if you're a great player then you're a great player, if you're bad at the game then you're a bad player.... I feel like a rank should not determine your skills at the game. I honestly know nothing about ranks in dbd cause I've never cared for them, but anyways that's just what I feel and that's my opinion.
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jUsT PreSUrE gEnS
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Most Killers in this game are bad at applying pressure, this is correct.
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