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Hi Almo, how come Decisive strike hasn't been nerfed yet? Forgive me if I come off as rude
Hi @Almo , I hope I don't come off as rude or snarky, and forgive me for assuming you would also reply to this post in the first place since I saw someone else put your name in their title and got a reply. But I am sure that many people, including myself, would like to know why DS hasn't changed. It is a perk that is extremely powerful and can even be abused if a survivor jumps in a locker or uses it with unbreakable.
There is also the fact that it can be used if the killer has hooked another survivor. Pop goes the weasel was nerfed down to 45 seconds, so how come decisive strike wasn't since it lasts a really long time? It seems that DS has a far greater impact than PGTW since it can stack on four different people.
Just the fear of it alone makes killers in most matches slug the recently hooked survivor even if no one has DS which is bad for the killer because this situation is still favorable to the survivors since you don't get a hook state out of them.
You can also hook another survivor and still be hit by DS. This isn't tunneling, but a survivor can still get value out of DS even when not being tunneled. While it is unlikely, it can still happen.
So if you would be so kind as to answer our question, "why hasn't decisive strike nerfed yet?" that would be greatly appreciated by a huge part of the community.
Thank you very much for your time.
Comments
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I don't really want to know the answer, because I'm scared of what the asnwer is...
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I'd appreciate an answer on this too, but directly calling out a single dev is extremely rude. I was surprised the other guy got a response in the first place, even with his video/reasoning for singling out Almo.
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Glad you opened the 100th Thread comparing PGTW and DS.
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Perks usually get changed during mid-chapters. It would be more fair to wait and see what the pbe changes and than ask why DS didn't get changed imo.
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DS is a healthy perk because everyone agrees getting tunneled is among the most anti-fun (yet still extremely effective strats) a killer can do.
It allows Survivors a way to stay in the game for an appropriate length (That's why it's 60 seconds instead of last hook) and deters Killers from tunneling. This is a good thing. Survivors are allowed to play.
Comparing it to other perks is useless because Survivor and Killer play very differently, that's a poor way to make an argument. "Pop was nerfed to 45, why not DS too?" all you're doing is showing what a terrible dev you'd make. Thinking it must be tit-for-tat.
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Because they would've to think about another anti-tunnel fix and probably their stats right now tell them that when DS was bugged not long ago, the death when hooked first/time between being hooked and re-hooked are not encouraging.
Yeah, yeah, I know the DS is not strictly anti-tunnel and all that. However, it's also a tunnel deterrent and they don't have an easy fix for other problematic aspects without impacting that one too.
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I think I remember them saying that in regards to the hooking thing, they don't want the perks power to be controlled by another players actions (VERY rich considering how many killer perks are reliant on survivors triggering them).
I also imagine that they want to do it 'right' this time. The main problem with DS is that its a defensive perk that is considerably stronger when used aggressively.
Then theres the fact that DS has overtaken self-care over time as the "crutch" perk for a lot of survivors. Don't get me wrong, REALLY good survivors use DS because they know just how strong it is when used at the right time, but many, many bad survivors simply throw it on as they suck at chases and go down too fast too escape/let their team complete gens without it.
Simply hitting a DS and holding W in a straight line can add up to 25+ seconds of gen progression for each team member just because of the stun length, then the catchup length for M! killer, than the picking up and hooking.
If they nerfed it into a truly anti tunnel perk that can't be abused you'd probably have mass survivor hysteria and quitting.
It's been a controversial perk since day 1. It will always probably stay that way.
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Something something statistics.
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Have they ever maked announcements like that on the forum?
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They have made developer updates that go over planned changes in upcoming mid-chapters before.
Here's the one for September that goes over the last mid-chapter changes:
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Here you go. This may be why it's lower on the priority list.
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Got your DS thread planned out for tomorrow too?
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It’s possible (and my belief) that there are no immediate plans to change DS (or any plans at all... and won’t be any anytime soon, or ever, either), as it isn’t viewed as the “impossible threat” which far too many Killers are making it out to be.
I don’t use it as survivor. Maybe used it 3 times.
...and I don’t care who uses it against me as Killer.
These DS threads rank right up there with the FNaF discussions that can easily be read as incessant whining and stale, tired attempts at badgering.
...and Lively horses always make for a better ride than ol’ Maurice, jus sittin’ over there in the corner going nowhere.
I sincerely understand why devs seldom bother replying to or acknowledging DS threads, and I imagine I’ll be following suit. It’s healthy; feels almost therapeutic while bringing on a sense of contentment.
...I actually should’ve started before this very post, tbh😌
I used to stand with clenched fists, screaming at the mountain and complaining that it was too high... then I finally decided to climb it, enjoying the journey and beautiful view from the top.
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It’s probably getting nerfed soon probably in the mid chapter or when Michael Myers gets changed
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Almo forgive this pleb for being mad at a perk that can be countered by not tunneling
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I think I am good... also I am not the only one who would like a response. That was kind of unnecessary too.
Post edited by Yords on2 -
I think you meant to say "tunneling" here. Also, sorry for "tunneling" a survivor off a hook when they were literally rescued in front of me or they are in a bad spot, that would give me an advantage as a killer and I sincerely apologize for that. Also, not "tunneling" a survivor is counter-productive as the killer. Without getting into it, it is a legitimate strategy. I am also not "mad", just curious.
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DS was nerfed multiple times in the past. People complain forever.
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Fixed. Well imo who tunnel is bad at the games in ganeral
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Tunneling may be boring for the survivor, but it is one of the few things killers can actually do to get the upper hand, it is not their fault either that it is best for them to tunnel many times. This game isn't exactly in a good spot in terms of balance. Like I have said DS can be abused very easily by jumping in a locker or using unbreakable with it. Also, if I hook a survivor and then hook a survivor who was recently unhooked (this does happen) am I a tunneler?
There is no need to be aggressive about this. I thought that people compared survivor and killer things all the time, look at keys and mori's for example.
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Well, that isn't the most accurate statement to make. A person who tunnels is not bad at the game in general. Unless they spend the whole match purposely looking for you, then yeah I am pretty sure they could learn a thing or two. But what if a killer does it because it is convenient? If a good killer tunnels it's because the unhooked survivor made a mistake by being in the wrong place (they would only slug that survivor too), or the saviors' mistake for unhooking when the killer is still close. A good killer will not tunnel if it isn't convenient unless they absolutely have to.
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Pretty sure it was one time. People complain because it is still a big issue since the nerf wasn't enough. It wasn't even really a nerf, more of a change.
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He does have a point. You can run DS + Unbreakable and not get the chance to use them at all.
Also LOL @ him getting infinite looped on Haddonfield because they turned Bloodlust off.
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''jUsT dOnT tUNnEl 5heAD''
Oh? You mean how you can down the entire survivor team, hook three of them, then get hit with a 59.9 second DS by the fourth because the perk isn't anti-tunnel, its actually just a free minute of invulnerability?
Yeah, guess I shouldn't tunnel in the future =/ my bad
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True. But if you think about it, DS doesn't really need to be used. Think of it more as reassurance and with unbreakable you can get away scott free. Most killers who are good slug the person who was recently unhooked because they assume they're running DS. Just the fear of it alone is enough you don't even have to run it if there is another obsession perk, and running this with unbreakable makes this situation tip in your favor. Also, I hope he figured out that Haddonfield was unbalanced lol.
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I agree, I'm not trying to argue the combo is healthy, and certainly it does give too much benefit when it does come into play.
Although, do you think perks that have an impact just by existing are so bad? Look at Power Struggle for example. Not a great perk by any means, but it will cause Killers to never walk through a pallet when carrying someone again. Is that unhealthy for the game? (Genuinely asking your opinion, I'm not sure on this one). Personally I feel knowing that perks like these exist and playing around them properly is the difference between a good Killer and a bad one.
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I know. That's why I said in brackets that tunneling was still an extremely effective strategy. I don't see how Unbreakable+DS is "abuse", that's a very negative term for perk synergy. The way I see it, those perks synergise well and allow a Survivor to keep playing the game rather than get tunneled out of it ASAP. You should not call it a negative term "abuse" without first proving why it's a bad thing.
Just because other people do things (compare keys and moris, perks to perks) does not mean it's an okay thing to do. I'm allowed to call out flawed reasoning when I think i see it! But I do apologize if it was aggressive.
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Wow such great feedback, way to contribute your entitled opinion to the topic.
As for OP, I too wonder why it hasn’t been changed. The last time this perk was changed, it took a LONG time for them to figure out what they were gonna do with it. I believe McLean said something along the lines, “we have made progress on it but we’re not yet satisfied with the outcome. A change is coming though I promise.”
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My understanding is that they have discussed DS internally and have just never been able to agree on a viable solution which doesn't come with its own set of issues. Basically, if they're going to rework a perk like DS, they want it to have fewer problems, not just different ones, and most if not all of the popular solutions proposed so far still have holes in them somewhere.
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I said it the day DS was changed and I'll say it again. I'd rather deal with old DS than current DS.
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It's fine btw just be a bit more careful when writing things which is something I clearly didn't do on that post about kobeing in people's faces post. That one got a bit out of hand and it wasn't my intention to stir up some heat.
Anyway, when I mentioned "abuse" of DS, I meant that it can be used to create lose-lose situations for the killer that are too powerful to survivors. Jumping in a locker is something that should be considered an abuse of DS because if you grab them you get stunned and they get away. If you slug them but they have unbreakable, you might get rid of unbreakable, but they still come out on top in this circumstance because you still didn't get to hook them and people are getting gens done elsewhere. If you just leave them, then they heal and do a generator. I know tunneling and camping are really lame strategies, but they still are effective and it can sometimes be the killer's only hope of getting a kill or more. If I am playing either side, I will do what I must to win. As a killer, tunneling a survivor if it is either convenient or I kind of have to in order to make a comeback. But say I tunnel a survivor off the hook and they jump in a locker I will feel helpless. If they use unbreakable, that just feels wrong to me since I practically wasted my time slugging them. It just feels helpless as a killer in this situation, and it is a helpless circumstance.
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I think that DS is probably the only perk that is powerful just by existing and I guess power struggle could be, but it is far more situational. Power struggle is an odd one and if combined with tenacity it can also create a lose-lose situation for the killer now that I think about it. Power struggle when used with tenacity is kind of like a free unbreakable if you think about it. I don't mean to sound entitled, but it can create a pretty helpless situation if it happens to the killer. I got hit with this the other day, I wanted to cry ;(. The only difference is that this one is more situational, but it kind of has the same effect. I forgot about power struggle honestly, I think it might be similar to DS.
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Yeah, the new one was in theory good..Til you figured out It basically was about changing OoO. Then you find out It was a buff the whole time.
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The pop can be used more than once but DS if you use it it’s gone.
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Because it has been buffed twice
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lol this thread is a joke.
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The long standing question:
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Because it is survivor's perk.
Survivor's perk could get some "change" but would never get nerf.
The only exception in history is MOM.
And this exception is because the MOM release just right after DS change so it piss too many people that Dev need to do something to fix their mistake.
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Pgtw can be used several times and decimates gen progress. Ds can be used once. I dont use it myself but you killers need to get some skill and stop tunneling. In all my killer matchs ds has cost me the match exactly once and thats because i played poorly. Its a non issue for good killers
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This is a False Equivalence Fallacy.
A single DS can win the entire survivor team the game but a single pop does very little.
The amount of usages doesn't matter if the one limited to one can instantly win the game.
A single pop is =/= to a single DS making only comparing the uses irrelevant.
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The funniest thing to me is that DS was originally given 5 seconds of stun because Enduring worked on the DS stun. But they removed enduring working on it and just never reverted the 5 second stun.
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It. Was. Nerfed.
Welcome. To. The. Game.
They've already addressed this perk when it used to be a given to the obsession before even first hook, and there was this dribble that killer's did to try to take it away. Now they just slug. Where's my paused timer when left on the ground?
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It needs another nerf. It is still too powerful. And why should you get a pause timer if slugged?
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DS is not an ant-tunnel perk. Per the Devs. Just like face camping is not bannable. also, per the devs.
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How many times are you guys going to beg for a nerf? It's literally been nerfed over and over and over again.
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The “nerf” wasn’t a nerf. It was made better by removing the struggle requirement for non-obsession survivors. The killer at least had some counter play to the previous iteration of decisive by dribbling non-obsessions.
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If your chases are lasting an average of like 10 seconds, you shouldn't really need to worry about DS anymore anyways.
I get the perk isn't completely focused against countering tunneling, but then again, thatt's not directly a problem. A perk shouldn't have to be only anti tunnel anyways, the fact that people are talking about DS only being anti tunnel and it would still be good just shows what a problem camping and tunneling is.
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If DS is not an anti-tunnel perk, what kind of perk could it possibly be other than a crutch? You even say that it is good against a camping and tunneling killer who you just genrushed.
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We are going to beg for a nerf until it actually gets a proper nerf. The nerfs it has gotten aren't enough to change the sheer power this perk can have.
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?.
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