http://dbd.game/killswitch
Should Devotion level be a factor in matchmaking?
Is it possible to incorporate this? I think it would help get more even matches, especially with how flawed the emblem system is and with the monthly rank resets as well.
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Why would you want that? The rank system as is doesn't work at all and they're working on something for matchmaking but it'll never be perfect. The issue is here would people rather play the game or wait an extra 5-10 minutes to get a game that is "balanced" on paper.
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Because devotion level is a more accurate measurement of your game knowledge...it's way too easy to rank up just being a potato. Getting matches with people that share the roughly the same amount of play time would be way better than what we have now.
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lol, measure of knowledge, being harder than ranking up even though playing the game in the slightest gives you progress towards devotion, thinking this will suddenly make matches balanced or queues faster
it won't fix anything
if it would have they would have done it a long time ago
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@bjorksnas Well, theoretically, the more time you spend doing something, the more you learn
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it's not more accurate. it's just play time based which is how rank is now but worse as it doesn't reset. Sure you'll know what to do more but doesn't mean you're good at it. I also would prefer not to wait extra time for games. I don't think you realize how bad queue times are currently and how this would worsen it.
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my queue times when i play survivor are 5-10 minutes. my queue times as killer are less than 10 seconds. This would worsen queue times which are already bad as is. I also don't have any issue when i play killer with people i'm matched with even at red ranks. But survivor is really random. sometimes i get people who actually play, most of the time i get people who are too scared to touch a generator.
I also only solo queue so yea queue times for survivor especially are garbage anymore.
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@Dpooly yeah it definitely would be a much better way of measuring skill as opposed to the current emblem system. I could be wrong here but I think one of the biggest issues right now with queue times is due to killer frustration. Not enough people want to play killer = incredibly bad waiting times for survivor. So it's definitely a balancing act of keeping killers happy to reduce queue times.
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one flaw is that devotion contains killer and survivor gametime, and as mentioned already, you don't necessarily learn a lot when playing a lot. I saw survivors with a few 100 hours playing way better than survivors with 2k+. I remember that I got stuck at "learning" at some point for several 100 hours, then made a big jump after starting to watch streamers. That wouldn't be covered by devotion. Also smurfing with secondary accounts would be way too easy with devotion
besides that, as you guys mentioned queue times, it varies depending on the time of day, at least for me. early morning til afternoon is survior time with less than a minute and then turns to killer time for evening to night with killer queue times being below 1 min. respective horrible queue times when you play killer in the morning or survivor at night.
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Let me elaborate a little more, I'm picturing bigger pools such as people level 0-500, 501-1000 and so on...not exact equals
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so people who have over 1000 collective levels must wait forever for a match? Any way you put the idea of devotion factored into matchmaking isn't worth adding. It's easily exploitable with alt accounts or friends with low devotion level. You can't say "oh you've played for x amount of time so you play with others with x amount of time!" That's a really bad way to do matchmaking as simply playing the game gives you devotion. Not just for one role or the other.
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That's a very extreme example, players with less than 100 hours game time on average are going to do tremendously worse than someone with 2k hours, regardless if they've played killer or survivor more. Partly due to experience(largest part) and partly due to not grinding out perks.
This can be verified by virtually anything that takes any sort of skill. Someone who starts playing x instrument and has 100 hours clocked is likely not going to be as knowledgeable and as 'good' as someone who has 2000 hours clocked. There have been many studies about this and quite notably a paper titled: The Role of Deliberate Practice in the Acquisition of Expert Performance.
@Dpooly in certain area's the pools would need to be both larger and smaller. There is a highly probable difference between someone who is a devotion 1 player and a devotion 4 player, whereas the gap between a devotion 10 player and devotion 18 player might be much less. Then there's the issue with SWF. If you have players who're devotion 1, 4,9,12 is it then fair to assume the killer should be rounded in the devotion 6-7 range?
Edit: And then this leads to a really awful experience for killers too. Let's say you're a devotion 4 killer main and decide to try out the new killer shortly after the chapter releases. Is it still fair to put you in the same devotion category for queueing with a killer you have little to no experience of?
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@Dpooly : I do agree with you though, devotion rating should have considerable weight when it comes to whatever matchmaking algorithm they are trying to implement. More importantly for the meantime though they really need to start kissing some killer asses to get them to queue more so we can bring this queue time down for survivors.
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Yes it should have some effect, although not too much. We don't want to worsen queue times for veterans. Also just because you have played a lot doesn't make you actually good. You'll have the fundamentals down, sure. But I have come across a lot of players with 1000+ hours and they still make novice mistakes.
So again, Devotion should be a factor but relatively low-weighted.
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^ Yeah, this. I have a decently high Devotion level but I suck at actually playing the game. I shouldn't go against someone with like 10 hours, because absolute newbies should go against other newbies so they can learn the game together, but if DbD put too much stock in Devotion people like me who just can't learn tiles/looping would have even more miserable matches than we already do.
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I saw a player on LoL who had played 4,000 games and was Bronze 4. Some people just don't get better, regardless of why. They might not be capable, or they just might not care. People who do learn and get better do so at different rates. Devotion would be a terrible thing to use for matchmaking.
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So.... i know you prob cant answer this. Which i understand. Ill take a boop instead buuut, how would you do match making if you had all the tools in the world (within reason) at your disposal?
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Only thing they need to change about devotion is that dumb thing when it prestiges and resets to the lowest amount of shards you can get per level again.
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I don't think it should be only factor of matchmaking but it should have some part. Someone that's devotion 1 with plenty of red/purple add ons and full purple load out shouldn't be playing with people that are JUST picking up the game, they should be bumped to rank 16 and not allowed to drop below it. New players need some sort of protection from players that purposely stay low rank for easy matches.
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The lower levels take less XP to get. If you check XP per shard, it's not so bad.
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Again, very anecdotal. The longer people or, even animals for that matter..... practice anything the better they get at it, in nearly all cases. I don't think that's a very controversial statement. Especially since a mountain of evidence can back up that claim. But out of curiosity Almo if you were in charge of the matchmaking system what changes do you think should be put in place?
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It's not universal, I have a friend who fast vaults into a locker at the start of every match to get the killer to come over so he can head on them. Normally gets baited or grabbed out, gets frustrated, does it again the next match anyway. Devotion 14 I think
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I don't disagree with you about the fact that there are people who simply don't learn, but I think they are probably the minority. I think the Bell Curve of people who are Devotion-3 are probably a better matched against other Devotion-3 (or at most 2s and 4s) than they are against Devotion-1. :) People do learn at different speeds but I think there is a margin of error where the Devotion probably could (and should) play a factor.
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And why is that a good thing? I played about 90% of my overall play time as survivor. And if i try a killer, i have to face people with as much time as me in killer and survivor combined?
Ok, i just stopped playing killer anyway, but others might still do it.
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Devotion level should at least bar you from newbie ranks. If you have multiple perks on several characters, then you don't need to be playing with people struggling to master the basics.
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I never claimed that it was universal, but for you guys to make the arguments that more experience at something doesn't improve your skill in said situation is a fallacy. Saying I knew this one guy one time who kept making the same dumb mistake over and over again isn't evidence of that. There are always going to be outliers.
Go ask any top tier streamer how they got so good at this game and I guarantee the answer will almost always be the same thing. They play a lot. Again, devotion shouldn't be the end all/be all to solving the matchmaking issues but to say it shouldn't have weight in the decision making is frankly non-sensical.
EDIT: I want to be clear that I understand that if you took 100 devotion 10 players and were somehow magically able to rate their skill to a scientific degree that there would be variable results. But I bet if you compared them to 100 devotion level 4 players in the same environment you would see a noticeable difference on average.
Post edited by Mozzie on1 -
That is an extreme example I gave yes. I'm not totally against having playtime factor into matchmaking, as long as it doesn't make smurfing worse and put even more players off
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but i know people who have a much higher devotion level than me, yet who are a lot worse than me...
also the MMR is comming soonTM, so they are already working on a different solution
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I know people who put thousands of hours into games and are absolutely shockingly bad at the game. I don't think it would be an accurate measure of skill.
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Devotion level is your KILLER AND SURVIVOR ranks combinded due to the time you've spent. if you have 2500+ hours and 2400 hours are spent as killer you probably have devotion 5 already and then they start doing survivor for some reason and you expect them to be good enough to be a devotion 5 survivor??? sure they know some as they've probably learned some things but they are still a devotion 0 or devotion 1 survivor. it's not a good way of matching people just like the number of hours to be used as matching what so ever still isn't a good indicator of skill.
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ok fine you play killer and have multiple perks on several killers yet you've never played survivor before! oh yea great idea.... again what you propose is not a good indicator, look at this event time frame they are giving out blood points and they don't have to work for it at all.
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I don't think so. devotion is just how much you play the game (kinda like rank). Just because you play a lot doesn't mean you're good and is not a good metric of skill in the game, so I wouldn't use it for matchmaking.
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If people all got good at even remotely the same rate, we wouldn't need complex mathematical systems to rate people based on their performance. The only place play time figures into real ratings systems is in how many points you get per match won or lost. They do this because your initial rating is completely unsure, and the system wants to find your level as fast as possible to get you where you should be on the curve.
I gave an anecdotal example because it illustrates the problem in a way people can understand. Experimentally, it is well-known that playtime is not a good measure of peoples' skill.
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But rank isn't a good measure of skill either with he current emblem system.
When are we going to go back to a kill/survive-based ELO?
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That's even worst, and will push the toxic game play even further forward. the emblem system needs an overhaul YES, Ranks need to be addressed at the same time and see what we can do. Lets look at something that many people talk about but most don't take into account. when the game first came out the end results for killer was dependant upon the number of kills for entity displeased, brutal killer, merciless where survivors have dead, sac or escape for their results. survivors to get their adepts only had to escape and killers only had to get merciless which meant they killed all 4 survivors. now with the emblem system survivors still only have to escape and the killers have to DOUBLE PIP. this is a discrepancy that has caused many newer players to not even try for the achievement because its neigh impossible unless you are going against lower skilled players (it is possible but very, very hard at the high ranks) and even then you have to let them do a damn good bit and you still risk either killing them too quickly or loose too many gens, too many chases etc.
So yes the emblem system needs to be revamped but not just discarded to go back to the darker days. I hope the devs can work on a way to fix this so that people can do things again and then also find a new way to fix the ranking system at the same time.
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I disagree. A kill/escape-based ranking system makes far more sense. It shouldn't the simplistic one we had before but if you want matchmaking to ever make sense you have to base it on what actually matters when measuring skill: surviving and killing.
The original system was bad because it didn't weight kills and escaping properly. Here are ways to do adjust it so that it makes sense, so killers who are good at killing are matched up against survivors who are good at surviving. Alternately you could make it about chase times. Because let's be honest the one thing that matters in this game is how fast/long you can end/extend a chase. That along with the metric for winning chases is probably the single most important measure of skill in this game, and it's what determines if killers kill everyone or people escape.
Whatever it is the current emblem system has to go.
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