why devs not see that use voice in game give to survivors a huge advantage?
idk but what interest to easy win?and in forum i often see how people write about new survivors plaayers but noone write to new killer players :D so fun begin 1 st game on killer side and SWF with voice win after 1 minute :D
Answers
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I think they know. This is why survivors don't have any in-game chat within match. But what do you expect devs do to swf with side software communication?
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Before SWF was added devs said that they would need to do "balancing changes as 4-man survivors on voice communication would be obviously unbalanced" yet no balancing changes were done. But personally they should start by limiting certain perks SWF can use. For instance OoO should be never allowed for SWF as now you have 4 survivors who know your exact location and move the entire game.
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OoO require full rework. I don't think it's possible to restrict some perks for swf.
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Source?
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Very early dev stream. You can prob find it from their twitch. It was this bald guy Ash saying it.
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The best approach would be to add a series of base cues for Survivor to lessen the tremendous gap between solos and premades.
100% agree on Object, nothing short of extremely busted in a SWF.
Since Killers are overall currently performing well, I think the base info buffs for Survivor should come first, then it can be assessed whether Killers at base neet something to compensate for the increased difficulty.
I very much like Otz´suggestion to remove Map offerings for a SWF member, at least until the insanely broken maps (Disturbed Ward, Haddonfield, Thompson House, Cowshed, Torment Creek, Abbatoir) have been fixed.
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So what would you even want the devs to do? Can't really discuss too much when you don't make it clear what you actually want.
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I kinda disagree on everything. Comms is not such a huge advantage, I think ingame comms to talk to randoms would mainly raise salt than anything, and I see tips for killer players as well (just not as much as there are obviously roughly 4 times as many survivors around). And the first killer loss is not caused by 4 SWF comms but by first killer game
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Where did they say that? I just can remember that they said "SWF was planned from day 1 and just wasn't ready yet on release"
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They said that in early stream mid 2016, your statement was literally like 2 years later. It's not uncommon that what they say have been inconsistent. Perfect example of this have been when they once removed hook auras from killers and said it was not intended, few weeks later they gave them back and called it a bug or something
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why can the devs see that using vpn gives the killer a detrimental advantage?
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Calling out everything the killer is doing is a huge advantage.
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Ok, then in detail. Not every comms group is playing like a SWAT team but like to talk also about things not related to the game at all. Not every information you give is THAT helpful. Try to describe where the hex totem is on rotten fields, shelter woods or wreckers yard, like "next to a rock and a tree" ... yeah. In not uncommon scenarios comms even confuses. One of "our" most annoying instances is "I thought the killer is on you" -"yeah, 2 seconds ago he was" granting free hits cause of misinformation.
On top of that, 2018 stats showed that there is less than 10% survival increase between solo and 4SWF. There are some definitely helpful things like "totem in shack" or "totem where I just got downed" that pinpoints the location. Then there are totally redundant information like "killer on me, stick on gens" while a solo would simply exactly do the same.
A generalizing sentence like "information is a huge advantage" doesn't really explain a lot. The information that helps causes the 10% difference. The rest is redundant or maybe misleading.
I would like to say good survivors don't need comms to be good (i.e. comms cant increase their organization THAT much as they are already good at reading the game) and "bad" survivors get a bit better by comms. But I can't even say the second part is correct, as giving information can't be taken advantage of that much, like there is no general understanding of the map layout, like "where is north", what means "left or right of shack" etc. Just as further examples that "killer is on me" or "killer trapped that pallet" can also have no valuable information at all for some people.
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They can't do anything about swfs using comms since they don't control outside software.
You may say "Then nerf all swf"
However not all swf teams use comms so your punishing players that play in teams for no reason. Your nerfing players for no reason.
The devs can't guess who's using outside software and they can't ever find out properly. Therefore they can't do anything about it.
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Maybe they cannot do anything to coms, but coms aren't the only reason why SWF is strong. Marth88 did his experiment with and without coms and they still performed greatly without assistance of voice communication. I've had several solo games with good survivors to a point killer accused us of being SWF because we were so coordinated. It's advantage if you know you are playing with strong player, you know their play style and they know what to do in certain scenarios like if killer is hard camping then just push the gens or trade hooks last second before second hook stage.
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If you know they're good it won't matter not having comms. The average player that doesn't have over 1000+ hours won't do well without comms. Knowing their play styles is something that takes time to build up. The devs can't just say "you've now played with this person over 50 times, now time to put some limits on what you can use" lol
I would like them to bring swf and solo to the same level and balance accordingly. Someone said before about not being able to see other survivors while on the hook and I actually thought this was an excellent idea. It won't affect the really good swfs unfortunately but will bring them closer to the level of solo q. Otherwise make kindred base kit.
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Playing survivor to win is not THAT hard. You don't need insane looping skills to beat even decent killers. What most survivors get wrong from the get point is that they don't spread out beginning of the match to repair 4 different generators. This will automatically eliminate killers chance to put pressure on multiple survivors simultaneously, eliminate slugging and snowball potential. Luckily most survivors are't playing optimally and play overly altruistic. Saying that something is "impossible" to balance is simply lazy. The least they should do is limit how many perks SWF can stack together, this is not punishing you for playing with friends, but balance it as you obviously gain strong benefits as well. Even if you get rekt every game with friends you still have much more fun than as a solo survivor.
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It would be quite lazy to say something is impossible to balance. Luckily if you read what I said I never used the word impossible once so I'd remove those quotations mate lol
I STRONGLY disagree with limiting the amount of perks swf can stack together. Your killing creativity in this game trying to say people can't stack perks together. Your just punishing some swf players because of how other swf players play.
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You are now focusing just one word i said, even you clearly suggested that in your previous post. This is what you said "Therefore they can't do anything about it." This clearly suggests that we shouldn't even bother trying to balance SWF, which is obviously unbalanced for many reasons.
You saying that killing "creativity" when you cannot stack multiple strong perks together? do you know what creativity means? Most SWF survivors run DS, BT, exhaustion perk (usually DH), and then semi meta perk like unbreakable, IW etc. Where is creativity in this? They are strongest perks certainly, but it's not creative.
Solo survivors maybe need DS, but SWF certainly doesn't as they have already BT, bodyblocks, flashlight saves available etc.
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You've just taken a quote out of context and used it to try and prove a point. If you want to show the full quote here it is:
"The devs can't guess who's using outside software and they can't ever find out properly. Therefore they can't do anything about it."
As you can see I was talking about comms in that quote. I'm not wrong since they can't tell who's using outside software.
Again your trying to misquote me. Creativity isn't running 4 meta perks together and destroying killers. What I'm talking about is the Kobe builds, sabo builds, all aura builds etc. These creative builds that some swfs run as a break from running the same meta builds your complaining about.
My swf take 1 day a week where we run stupid builds like these and mess around. We don't do gens just try or win, we just try and commit fully to the build. We also drink just to make it that much more tougher for us. That my friend is what I mean by creativity. The amount of times we've done a build, died, seen it was a streamer and watch their stream to see that they had a lot of fun. Two people actually have said it was their favourite games ever.
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its strange people told that comms not always help to win but why u protect SWF and afraid if (FOR EXAMPLE) SWF will be deleted if it not give advantage???
i think people protect SWF becuase if SWF will deleted they(survivors) lose possibility to comms and coordinate actions :D
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I think is really easy to counter SWF.
Killers join the Lobby, if they see an Icon in survivors name, killer Will know that they are 4-3-2 players premades, depending on how much similar icons are on that lobby.
Now that Killers knows that they are premade, he can decide if he stays or leaves that Lobby.
Super easy fix without changing perks.
Long queue times for SwF? Well, play SoloQ without voice and you Will have short queue times, for that kind of players is the Game designed, not for premades :).
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Not to mention knowing exactly what your teammates are doing at any given time.
There's a reason Kindred is considered a strong perk even though it adds nothing for an SWF and is only active for a small window of time.
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Is really easy to fix SWF.
Just add an icon on survivor's name like a star or whatever in the lobby to Mark the killer that they are premade, if they are 2 premades of 2 players, Well, 2 different icons.
When Killers join the Lobby, they can see if enemie team is SoloQ players or premades and they can choose to stay or leave that lobby.
If they have the option to play with voice, Killers should have the option to choose if they want to play on disadvantage or not.
This could be a problem for SWF queue times? Yes, but if you want to play that way, the consequences are those, long queue times Cuz not all the Killers wants to play against them.
See? Super easy
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Based their decisions over the last few years, I'd say the devs will not make any change that will split the playerbase, punish anyone, or hurt queue times, and this would do all three.
We need suggestions that keep all of that in mind.
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In that case..... Nothing to do I think
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I don't necessarily agree with their approach to SWF lobbies, it's just what I believe they consider.
The only method I've seen tossed about on the forums that makes sense to me and fits their pattern is to raise the solo queue play to something approaching SWF levels of info, and then rebalance killers around that.
Exactly how to do all that is very debatable.
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But yeah, increasing the "baseline efficiency that can be assumed" (this is the "buff solos" thing that's often mentioned) is pretty much the only realistic way to do anything about it. Make it so when you balance the game around a group of survivors not all going for the same unhook and wasting ungodly amounts of time, that assumption can be consistently achieved even without perks. And no, I have no clue of any perfect way to do it either, I don't even think a perfect solution exists.
But anything from pushing for the removal of SWF, interference with voice chat or even "subtle" and/or blatant disincentiviazation of party play in a modern multiplayer game is rooted in ignorance of what's expected of modern multiplayer games at best, and straight up delusion at worst. No nicer way to put it, all of that is lightyears into NEVER EVER territory.
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There's nothing they can do to stop communication with swf. It's literally impossible.
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yeah the only solutions to this are either the nuclear option of removing party play, or buffing solo players base kits removing all killer detection perks and then working from there to get killers into a healthy spot against this new baseline,
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The solution is to give solo survivors and killers a 1.5x bonus for bloodpoints as an incentive to play that role.
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did you read my response on him? saying "kindred adds nothing for an SWF" is simply wrong...
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Fine, Iet me correct myself: It does nothing for people with voice comms.
yw.
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The fact that they have their own official discord means they don't care about it. You can't pretend it doesn't exist. Just implement it into the game and balance around it, I can't believe we will be having this discussion into 2021 about VOIP in DBD.
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Game doesn't have its own voice chat or any chat in match. Because devs said it would be unbalanced. But they can't turn off your discord or skype while you in game. This is what I trying to say.
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Yes, it's a ridiculous statement on their part if that's in fact what they've said about it.
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same response from my side again. you, like everyone here talking about comms, paint black and white. you probably just have the situation in mind "tell someone if he needs to unhook or not" but having the auras visible is much more precise than a description could ever be.
Like try to navigate an injured mate to the random to get a heal, describe your mate where someone else is chased so that he doesnt run into the chase getting smacked or pull the attention while trying to get to the unhook. Just two examples. Maybe rare situations compared to the main purpose of the perk, but once again, saying Kindred has NO value to comms is simply wrong.
And these "little" differences are the key things, why solo vs 4man SWF had just a 10% survival increase. People paint it black and white, just talking about maximised effects, ignoring all the little things that make this game so complex. The game isn't that easy
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Just give everybody rank 3 Bond and Whispers as baseline kit, and change those perks to other things.
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Never have I ever seen a game where people get so upset about being beaten by teams better than them that they claim voice communication is busted...
Without voice communication, people would actually have no idea how the game is played at the highest level, because they would be countless mistakes and misplays.
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OoO does nothing on swf if the killer is doing anything its with or to one of the survivors so they always know no matter what they dont need ooo to say he is here or chasing me or go for the save so ooo doesnt effect swf at all actually because if the killer isnt interacting with a survivor then what else is he doing
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Enough people treat it as one
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A small penalty per pre-made party member might be the best way to go.
Say, 2.5% longer to finish gens, up to 10% for a team of 4 premades. And then call it done.
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