You shouldn't be able to SWF if they're red ranks and you're level 20. PERIOD.
It's not fair on anyone and its screwed up.
change my mind.
(I'm a survivor main and even seeing this stuff in the after chat is crazy! When I play killer it's sad because a level 4 David can pair up with a level 20 whats-his-face and get "free wins" off of inexperienced killers. It's highly unfair and deeply..... Weird? How can you maintain red rank and call a win against a new killer a win????? LETS NOT EVEN MENTION THE T BAGGING FOR DAAAAYS.)
Comments
-
You're absolutely right, everybody's experienced that at least a few times by now even if they only did killers for rift challenges. And when it's a 4 man doing it, it does not feel good at all. Especially when they're new or just returned the game after not playing for a few years which was my case around when ph came out lol.
7 -
What's really disturbing to me about this is that there are some people who not only think that it's completely fine to get a full team of red ranks against a rank 20 killer but there are also some people who ENJOY those kinds of matches, i'm not convinced those people are right in the head
26 -
The only legit concern I can think about is, that there are people that want to introduce Dbd to their friends. You get 0 progress in KYF, so it's not an option.
I can't think about a good solution. Ranked/Unranked Mode would be a possibility. Bots, too, where you get reduced BP for playing but at least aren't ruining the match for others.
Or just as it was a while ago. Always take the highest rank from the swf-group to determine who the killer is. All those ideas have their pro and cons.
5 -
Remember how ruin was nerfed, because it was a unpleasant experience for new players?
And that was just a perk that turned skill checks red...
I really wonder what the devs think about this new player experience.
14 -
They dont because survs fun vs killer fun. The many vs the 1
6 -
first of all if someone is bringing a new person into the game and they are red ranks, they better know what they are in for as a rank 20. the killer i understand how it's gonna be rough but the idea of survive with friends is to bring people together and let people have fun, so yes you will see this happen. They tried to make the match making key off the highest rank (rank 1 etc) but it didn't work and broke the match making system over all. I hope they can make it better, but stop whining about this as it will not be removed and to tell someone they can't play with their friend because thy just started playing is going to put off more people than you realize and that gets to be bad. sigh why is it always you can't do X or shouldn't allow Y when there are bigger issues in the game? and YES I have faced this type of group and it is frustrating but i don't give up, i finish the game and learn from it.
1 -
I agree that red ranks players should never get matched with rank 20 killers but I don't think they shouldn't be able to swf. I just think matchmaking should rank them with higher killers.
This is only because I think a higher levelled player trying to teach new players (their friends) how to play the game is good.
5 -
When matchmaking, ignore the rank of the lowest survivor if the SWF has more than 2 players. This problem would literally disappear overnight.
1 -
They changed it so that matchmaking is based on the highest rank in the squad, then sneakily changed it back, although the people who do this type of thing noticed
3 -
I'm not suggesting that they have it to what it was before. I'm suggesting a more refined change of only ignoring the lowest ranked survivor in a SWF rather than matchmaking verses the highest.
Alternatively, If skill base matchmaking gets setup correctly. (Meaning that the skill can be determined after a single match) I believe that skill based matchmaking should be able to determine an appropriate rank for the group and then do matchmaking based off the groups overall skill rather than an average of individual survivors. This is a more complicated process and one that while I'm sure is possible, I'm not confident that BHVR would be able to pull it off.
0 -
How about we fix matchmaking so it ranks based off of the highest person in the group (as it used to be but apparently isn't now if my experiences are anything to go by??) and allow people to continue playing with their friends?
1 -
Why not make it so you have to be within at least 5 levels of each other for swf to work? I mean an 18 level difference??? That's ridiculous. There SHOULD be caps for it. Red ranks can pair with purples thats fine but red ranks with level 18s and 20s???? That's broken. if they give their friends time to actually accumulate some hours then they can survive with friends easily. Maybe a week, 2 tops and you can get to purple rank through trial and error.
That's seriously a problem not only for the killer who is more than likely to be a level 18-16 but also for the people who are new to the game. How are you, a red rank, going to show someone how to juke the killer, or show them "the ropes" when it takes hours of gameplay and mistakes for that to happen. I understand people wanting to play with their friends and there's nothing wrong with that, I SWF and we're within the same niche, but there is a major problem with Matchmaking that needs to be addressed and if this is how the game has "always been" then we're "putting up" with a broken system.
It's an unfortunate and inconvenient part of this game. Don't get me wrong, I love this game and the community for the most part is fantastic- this is just something that's been bothering me the past couple of weeks.
2 -
My friend used to be a red rank survivor- rank 1. He was how I learned to play the game. I could only do this because of the lack of cap and without him I probably wouldn't have kept playing. He's now rank 20 due to reset and not playing and I'm the rank 1. If he were to come back, he can just jump straight into a queue with me because we both know what we're doing and can have fun.
All they have to do is have matchmaking actually function. You shouldn't be punished for playing with friends and, furthermore, ranks are not an accurate depiction of skill.
1 -
Theyll just make smurf accounts so its gonna happen anyway
0 -
Okay, first of all, if killers weren't so tilted by teabagging, survivors wouldn't do it.
Now, on to your other point. I've been playing a lot of killer lately to get the challenges done and I'm in the 16-18 range. I ALWAYS have purple ranks in my games. Literally always, and sometimes there are also red ranks. It certainly seems SWF with a couple people running Borrowed, a flashlight, and For The People. Being a solo survivor, those things are very rare to see. Definitely not in one game.
Sometimes I get messages after the games from rank 5 survivors who escaped saying "LMAO NO WONDER UR A 17." I'm a level 17 because I'm a solo survivor who only plays killer for the challenges, and I've never felt so insecure and sad that I need to taunt someone who I never should have played against in the first place. I did message a level 18 killer who DC'ed last night and I said something like, 'unfair match making, I get that too when I play killer, GGs,' and he told me he reported me for harassment ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I personally don't think SWF is the problem, it's match making. Level 18-20 SWFs against a level 18-20 killer is going to be very different than two purples and two noobs vs a noob killer.
1 -
Okay, well with that being said, perhaps they could pair survivors with x amount of hours played with killers who are also within that quota?
The whole ranking system is wack honestly, and I completely understand that there are many more pressing issues out there with this game. Like the bugs.
For example, I just played a match where Quinton became the huntress's ax after being downed and whenever he got hooked, I was hooked in mid air. Then his body followed her around the whole match- yes I laughed really hard but that's a big bug. Or the dull totem that can be turned into a hex totem that's stuck in the tractor.
I'm not trying to complain so that way they completely screw the game up because people are complaining too much, I just wanted to point out the obvious that it's totally broken when that happens and people can easily abuse that system and they still do. And they will. Because people are people. No one's saying you can't have friends, or that you'll be punished for having friends. I'm just saying- Y'all. Know. It's. Messed. Up.
the people who SWF that are red ranks know it's messed up because there is a high chance that you're going to get a "noob killer". there is a smaller chance that you're going to get a killer who's been away from the game for a couple of months. :/
0 -
Smurfing is scummy, and I don't care if someone has a good intent to bring someone new in (nor do I believe that is the case most of the time).
5 -
Change how matchmaking treats parties. Used to matchmake based on the highest rank in the party, even if it doesn't return to that system entirely ignoring significantly lower ranks while getting an average or whatever would be an improvement.
Because no, the devs won't restrict their players no matter their ranks from using the most powerful player acquisition tool that exists: "Hey, come play this game with me!"
0 -
For the most part, I agree. In my case, I'm a rank 5 survivor, and have very recently had quite a few friends start playing dbd, so when I play with them I tend to play against newer killers. Because of that I usually use pretty random perk builds just for fun and try to take it easy on the killer, sometimes let them kill me and stuff.
The reason I can't fully agree is that if I wasn't playing with one of my friends who just got into it, he told me he probably wouldn't have even tried to understand the game and just quit playing. So I think it does help keep new survivors playing, I just wish more players would be a little nicer to new killers when they know they're quite obviously able to beat them
0 -
They did not sneakily change it back, @Aneurysm , it honestly BROKE the match making system, it was a free range that was later seen (but smaller) wen they said they introduced the MMR. I saw rank 1 killers facing rank 20 squads and getting crap for it, even though they had nothing to do with it being like that. That was the result of the lets make match making off of the best ranked player in the SWF. and both of your ideas are essentially the same @konchok because it introduces another level of complexity in the matching algorithm.
0 -
This is literally the dumbest possible reply. If we didn't complain about this ######### it wouldn't be on the devs ######### radar. You know how long it takes them to get what we say. How long did it take them to change moris? How long did it take map infinite to be removed? All the "whining* made that ######### happen. So don't come here bitching that we want this fixed.
1 -
you are complaining about people playing with a rank 20 survivor, without knowing if it 's a survivor that's played many many hours and took a year (5 months are only needed) break and are rusty, OR that rank 20 survivor might be a BRAND NEW PLAYER! and you're saying they can't play with someone when their friend has been playing for a while and gotten high up in ranks? wow, you know most games that are past 2 years old get the MAJORITY of their new players because of people that PLAY and those people are generally friends and play together when they can. Sure you can make it so a rank 20 can't play with a rank 1, but what about a rank 16? what about a rank 12? you know what? you may think my response is dumb but I will say this at least I know my english and the true meaning of DUMB and it is only a SLANG reference to "stupid", I at least can support my arguments with facts instead of wishful thinking like yours.
Oh yea I forgot: changing/removing infinites is not the same as removing the ability to play with others. Many people would QUIT playing if they couldn't play with their friends in matches that matter. and people new coming in though some are solo are usually brought in as a friend of one that has been playing for a while.
0 -
I think the better option would be to rank based on group size
2 players = ranked between both members of the group
3 players = ranked for the top player + a little leniency for lower ranked killers
4 players = ranked for the top player + ranked slightly higher (rank 2 ranked as if rank 1 and so on) so basically a rank 2 and 3 rank 20s would average rank 1 killers (if queue times were instant for both sides so basically in a perfect world we will never have)
This probably helps because you can still bring a new friend into a game and not have them hammered, but you can't bring 3 smurfs and a main to bully low rank killers and the 2 player new friend experience stays roughly the same
1 -
Usually they queue with some low rank friend to do some "montages" and pretend to be good at yt ...
I'm rank 1 surv and trying to introduce my brother into the game ... but i don't yt montages nor enjoy juking low rank killers. But that's me.
1 -
Ranks generally just need to matter more, in terms of how players get matched up. Cross-play was supposed to help fix this problem.
I'd like to see them test something like this: All survivors should be within one color band of the killer in either direction, no exception. Survivors cannot form parties unless they are within one color band of each other, no exception. I can see issues with implementing this, but I'd like to see them take a stab at it.
0 -
How do you propose you stop people from using a comm program?
0 -
They should just adjust matchmaking around the highest rank survivor in your swf. If you have a red rank you get red rank killers.
0 -
Yeah sure you never give up and all, how about others like me who has like 50h into the game and I play against ranks (1_1_3_1) while I am rank 11 or 10, not just one time, more than once, actually the best match I get is against ranks 8, I rarely get match up against lower or equal rank to me, as if they never existed, long story short I deleted the game cuz I already have frustration issues and don't want to deal with teabagging nerds who have spent 500h or so in the game already
0 -
They can and they should.
The only thing is, the rank 20 should just take the damage and be matched against a red rank killer.
Is it fun for the survivor?
Nah probably not, but it's a risk you take when you go in with red rank friends.
But it is way more fair for the killer, instead of 3 red rank survivors vs an unexperienced killer.
0 -
From my experience, this is still the case. Yesterday I played a game against a Rank 2 Killer with another 2 man SWF consisting of a Rank 1 and a Rank 20. And whenever I see a disturbance in Ranks, it is two low Ranks instead of one low Rank with a high Rank.
0 -
hell if you've only 50 hours in the game and you're already rank 10, that means either you yourself got carried or you have learned a great deal in a short amount of time. when I was at 50 hours I was still unable to hit the old DS/overcharge/ruin skill checks for the life of me. so you are obviously the better player why not let you face those better killers so you can learn more. You might think about what and how you said this because it came off as if you were bragging being a rank 11-13 in 50 hours. when I started playing oct 2018, there were many things different and it made learning hard. I didn't see green ranks even when I was swfing with purple and red ranks till about 200 hours in on survivor and killer that took a while to get out of the brown ranks.
match making is your rank with a range of 6 on either side of yours. And if you wait a while it WILL open that window up to 7 or more ranks on either side of yours! so facing groups with 1-3's like you suggest, it's not hard to see that it might do that.
They tried that and it broke matchmaking for a while I've continued to say this because it is what they themselves said and they reverted it back.
0 -
Heres an odity yesterday me and my swf with a team of rank 5,5 and 3 queud up. You think we would get a rank 5 or 7. No on two occasion we got randomly matched with a rank 16 nea and a rank 12 meg.
The meg isnt too far away I'll admit but its worth noting we were in lobby for 5 to 7 minutes. Of course the killer was some green rank killer because large queue times borked matchmaking.
Mtchmaking as of late has been really bad. As killer im getting high end purples when im in top end reds sometimes greens btw killer queue is 3 to 10 seconds long somehow. Many of my survivor games are mid rank low rank killers despite exclusively playing with my group of 3 friends. Its jarring.
Honestly if i was in behavior shoes id look into rasing the number of killer players. Balancing is something there not budging on thats plain to see from moris vs keys situation. Btw had two easy as hell escapse with my 3 man because of key access nice job there. Hell killers being so dominamt is likely the result of vetrans snd excellent players making up the majority of killer players. Go easy on the new killers its a 4 v 1 and from my experiance 4 people yelling abuse at a solo killer player makes it hard to build a varied killer base.
Also consider maybe an alert for people in dbd to what is lacking in terms of queues and offer some bp bonus. Formula should likely be measured by a simple killer role is less then 4 times the amount of survivor bp bonus equals true for killer. This can apply to survivor as well if killer is greater then 25% of survivor player base survivor bp bonus equals true.
0 -
It's odd- from my experience as killer that's the case, as I'm out here getting 3 rank 2s and a rank 17, but as survivor it's the opposite. Idk if its just solo matchmaking being ######### and giving me 2 rank 19s and a rank 9 (rank 1) vs a rank 10 killer or what but something isn't quite right here. Should've specified, that was my bad.
0 -
Its not always like that even. I get games where I am red rank and get thrown in with a bunch of greens or even yellows and grays. As a solo queue and they're all the correct ranks.... Except the killer who is also red rank.
I can get similar things happening as killer albeit more rarely including getting only green ranks or yellows as a rank 1.
0 -
Yes, this is something I also get. Like here:
This was on Rank Reset-Day this month. Funny thing is, if the Killer and the Survivors are on different Platforms, it will look like a SWF for the Killer. The Rank 18s were also real Rank 18s and they played like that.
IMO this Matchmaking isnt even that bad, because the Killer has two Survivors to capitalize on and two who are more experienced than him. So it somewhat evens out, but it should not happen.
But whenever I get this, the Killer and the other Survivors are Console-Players. I can only imagine that the Killer and the Survivors waited already pretty long (they are low ranks and due to the small Rank Reset the lower Ranks get thinner) and then the Matchmaker threw together this Lobby.
2 -
I'm tired of seeing padded MMR. Bringing in a new player is one thing, but I frequently come across padded teams and it's miserable for new killers. Beyond that, the MMR is jacked up, I saw my buddy at rank 20 with a killer played for the very first time matched with two reds and two purples. What the hell is that?!
1 -
You've just broken your own argument. For a new player learning the ropes takes a short enough time so that if there was a restriction let's say 20-14 cannot play with ranks ones full stop then all they have to do is play and learn the basics before being able to do matches with experienced players. It ain't hard and wouldn't be an issue for players willing to the put the effort in to learn so not only can they play with friends but also be useful on the team. The game is competitive and therefore should be treated as so until there's a causal mode added.
Course that solution ain't great by any means. Imo the whole rank system should be scrapped since it barely functions half the time and replaced with somthing all around better. But that would take effort from the devs.
I didn't say the infinites fix was the same level of difficulty so their your flat out wrong, I actually used it to show that the devs have a history with taking far too long to change really simple things so for somthing this important which is complicated to fix we should be vocal and get the point across to get a decent solution but also keep it talked about.
In conclusion I called your argument stupid or dumb because it was unfounded and simply had no strong point. It be much more helpful if you actually gave an idea of how they could fix the system instead of trying to invalidate someones genuine concerns by calling it "whining". Also idc if you know the English language as you can tell so do I and?
0 -
if I had to learn the basics of DBD in 2018 i'd never have continued playing or even bought it. I don't like pvp games and I prefer single player or story based PVE coop like mmo's. Only reason I got this game it to play with people I met online (twitch) playing the game and play with them, all but one of those friends were red ranks and they taught me the game and how to play. So no I did not break my argument you're trying to find fault with it by assuming things that are not typed. I would never 1) play this game unless I knew people playing, 2) paid to get the game just before spirit came out, 3) bought all expansions (but the twins) and 4) recommended this game to other friends. so my argument stands even with you trying to pick it apart. there are a great many people that like pve games but hate pvp for many reasons but dbd is just enough different than most pvp which basically pits people using the same powers to win against each other. I dislike the mirror match pvp idea it never worked for me and i don't like it when i learned pvp from everquest where it was the best computer and connection wins!
0 -
Lol you got me wrong, I am rank 10 as killer complaining about having high ranks surv, this is another broken side of the rank system, you can get high rank in killer fast in few games while getting high ranks in surv is much more difficult and requires much more matches which makes the rank 4 surv much more experienced than the rank 4 killer and yet in most of my matches the surv are higher rank than the killer which is much much stupid, now if you can tell how many times I said much in this very much long comment you get a much much blessings from me
0 -
as a rank 10 killer you can be paired with anyone from rank 4 to rank 16. This is if both survivors and killer queue at the same time and no one is waiting, how ever if the survivors have been waiting for a killer which does happen a good deal their window of what ranked killer that they could get starts opening up. this is what the devs have said though there is no given time frame that this starts to happen, nor is it said how much it opens up the rank window when it does start opening it up.
Also you can be matched to anyone that is within that rank window in the group of a swf this is why you can see 3 red ranks and a 20 and not be facing a swf. The window at rank 10 is enough that it may not take long that you could get the low number ranks or the high number ranks there. it is that simple, please look into what the devs have said about ranking on their own stream.
0 -
Lmao from 16 to 4!, I got to rank 16 with 15h or so, before you say I am bragging or something, I used to watch streams of the fame before someone finally gifted it to me, but still 15h playing vs top players!
0 -
While i was playing killer, i meet at least 3 groups of red rank survivors playing with a lvl 18 or so survivor, that told me after the game (usually because i camped and tunneld them when i found them that well coordinated) that he was actually was another red rank survivor on a smurf account. Yes, this matchmaking is exploited on purpose, and its an exploit the devs dont care about.
So many reasons not to play killer anymore...
1 -
you are totally misunderstanding what i was saying. I said that a rank 10 is matched in a window from rank 16 to rank 4! the number is plus or minus 6 ranks from the rank of the killer, and supposedly from the average of the swf. I'm not talking about getting from rank 16 to 4 in a quick time i was talking about the matching window.
0 -
it's an "exploit" that they can't prove either. just because they pair up doesn't mean they are exploiting, they are using swf. if someone is on another account there is no proof that it is that other person at all.
0 -
They explicitly use a lower rank survivor account to get lower rank killers. That is exploiting. The problem is the proof, and even if they admit to it in the postgame chat, noone cares.
0 -
This is all pretty anecdotal, so I'm going to add my own anecdote into the mix because why not?
Some of my friends just got the game on Switch, and I've been playing on PC for about a year and a half now. On and off. It's a love hate relationship for sure.
I know how the matchmaking system works, more or less, so I know when I play with them I'm probably, most likely, going to get matched with a killer who has no idea what they're doing. I don't go into these games thinking I'm going to maintain my rank, I go in to make sure my friends can learn the game so they can catch up to me just a little bit faster.
I'll tell them who the killer is, I'll tell them to do some objectives, and I'll keep an eye out for any unwanted killer playstyles--facecamping or proxy camping just to name the most frustrating things a new player trying out the game would experience. I'll usually tell them what to do in the situation and I'll either be the looper(though I still suck at chases) or the one on the hook.
I don't play to survive or even get a decent score at that point, I just play to make sure my buds don't quit the game because of a few bad experiences. Because there are plenty of multiplayer games out there that can give a fun experience without any of the toxic crap this game offers alongside it. But there's only one duhbuhduh.
0 -
Eh, honestly it shouldn't be that difficult. It's not like matchmaking/ranking systems are some brand new frontier where there are no tried-and-true designs for BHVR to build off of, I just think the problem comes down to the # of players. The more complex the matching system and the more filters and variables it has to take into account, then the more necessary it becomes to have a larger and larger playerbase in order to keep the average queue times at an acceptable duration.
DBD is 4 years old...what's left of the playerbase consists of the dedicated multi-thousand-hour+ veterans, and noobies arriving via the recent addition to Xbox GamePass (me) or other platforms due to holiday discounts. The queue times are already lengthy when I want to play Survivor (never less than ~7 minutes in my timezone, PST), while Killer is never more than 20 seconds, and this is all with a barebones matching system that clearly just takes the average Survivor team rank and tries to find a close ranking Killer, but even then it rarely comes close to even that because there are just so few varied choices (in my experience).
0
