I need a ruling on perk: Power Struggle
So i need help/ a ruling on the perk :power struggle.
So here is the example i just faced. two survivors left, with both of them down and near by exit gate at 99%. I hooked and killed one. I came back to the second one to see they crawled to a near by pallet and are waiting there. I assume that the reason they would do this was because the have power struggle ready. So I have the choice of waiting for 3 mins for them to bleed out, or eat the pallet stun and let them escape. Now that power struggle is a thing, i know its toxic to make them bleed out, but is it bannable, when now its part of the game?
BTW I did end up picking the player up, and yes she did have it, and yes she did escaped...
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Play the game however you want. The devs force your hand by making these perks.
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is forcing them to bleed out bannable? I'd say probably not but it is kinda toxic.
Is them going under a pallet with power struggle bannable? Not in anyway. In order for them to be able to get under a pallet and use power struggle when you pick them up requires a ton of things along with the flip flop perk from ash. It's very rare to do that unless your whole build is about doing it that.
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im assuming it may be bannable because devs will see your holding the game "hostage" because your refusing to pick the player up... i just so happened to be right with my hunch on his perk. but what if the player is bluffing and i refuse to pick up then?
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If you suspect it, it's fair game. If they move from under the pallet, pick them up. If not, there's no harm in leaving them there, imo.
You did nothing wrong, and they wasted their perk slots on a one-off chance for that perk to work.
It's not bannable to let someone bleed out, but it is BM, but again, if you suspect something like this, it's not really.
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Couldn't you just open the door and let the end game collapse kill them?
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AFAIK refusing to pick up a survivor isn't bannable in any way, it's just kinda seen as annoying because you're wasting each other's time. This exact same discussion can be had about DS and some dude just hiding in a locker or sitting there smugly on the ground, though at least in DS's case they only have a set amount of safe time. Power Struggle is a really situational perk unless you build around it (using flip-flop and possibly Unbreakable), so if someone manages to actually use it you kind of just have to eat it. It's way less of a Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card than something like DS.
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you know i completely forgot about this, and i dont think i ever have a killer. this is probably the solution i needed.
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They would bleed out before the collapse timer killed them. Bleed out time is 3 mins base i believe and collapse is 2 mins but if someone is downed/hooked it goes 50% slower.
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When the only way to counter certain survivor perks is to leave them on the ground you should leave them on the ground, if they don't like it they can ask for the perk to be changed.
And slugging and bleeding survivors out is in no way bannable, https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system
THE FOLLOWING ARE NOT CONSIDERED BANNABLE OFFENSES - PLEASE DO NOT REPORT
- Slugging
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yes. but once the end game timer starts and they sit under the pallet instead of crawling to the exit... im kind of saying its their choice now that they wana wait for the bleed out. IMO balls in their court and im not holding the game hostage if i wait for them to leave the pallet
***edit: I didnt want to leave and look for hatch cause there was a chance she had unbreakable, and the second i made enough space she could have got herself up and left through exit. like in that situation unbreakable yelds the same result, i come to pick her up, she gets uo once i walk near.. throws pallet, stuns me and runs away
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if it was the last survivor you could close the hatch instead of opening the gate then pick them up. since they can't really leave through the hatch unless they have a key.
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I didnt want to leave and look for hatch cause there was a chance she had unbreakable, and the second i made enough space she could have got herself up and left through exit. like in that situation unbreakable yelds the same result, i come to pick her up, she gets up once i walk near.. throws pallet, stuns me and runs away
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fair point. I would have just left them there then.
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It is not bannable, they will die after 4 minutes, that isn't holding the game hostage because they will die, if they couldn't die or anything that would be bannable, but this isn't the case. If survivor is doing it on purpose and you assume that he would have PS, it fine to do it, he made his choice by doing that.
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Its not bannable, but it is their fault if they expect you to just pick them up and give them a free escape
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Of course its not bannable #########? Why would developers add a mechanic to ban people?
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That's on the devs now. Killers gotta play around any potential perk as long as there is no indicator. If the survivor wants to get picked up, they can move away from the pallet.
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Forcing survivors to bleed out has never been bannable.
Let them bleed if the kill matters that much to you.
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Forcing to bleed out is not bannable, you're right to think of this new perk. If you truly felt she had it and it will let her escape when you pick her up, then go for the slugging.
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In that situation, the choice is theirs if they want to get picked up so just stare at them and wait. If they want the game to end they'll crawl out to you otherwise they'll be waiting for the bleedout timer just in case.
Also, slugging is not bannable in any fashion whatsoever. Lets say you're playing Bubba and by some miracle you down all 4 in a single chainsaw. You can leave them all on the ground and let them bleed out without having to worry about being banned. Is it a dick move to do that? Yes, very much so but it's not bannable in the least, no matter how much they might tell you otherwise.
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It seems kind of silly that *the only counter-move* in that situation as killer would be considered "toxic." In fact, I'd argue that when we've gotten to the point when we, as the killer, are to deliberately give the game away and pretend like we don't understand what they're trying to do, then the whole game of outplaying your opponent is just being replaced by this "non-toxic" courtesy thing. I like to think of this in terms of a fighting game; we both have 5% health left, yet I'm supposed to allow you to combo me and if I go for my block button, I'm being toxic? Seems like a pretty flimsy argument for being "toxic."
There's not being a jerk, and then there's basically playing down to your opponent. I find it odd that we have to question this at all in a game that's theme is horror-movie icons.
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What can you expect? People wonder why survivor lobbies are long most of the time but still are saying survivor is weaker than killer.
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Dont worry, slugging is not bannable and since the person will bleed out on the floor after a few mins it does not fall under keeping the game hostage either.
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Sadly this perk doesn't have any proper counter. It's honestly broken and I hope the devs are gonna nerf it as soon as possible. It's basically an unlimited timed Decisive strike. Slugging shouldn't imo be option as the counterplay. It's boring and time-wasting for both sides.
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Bringing up Power Struggle and DS in one sentence. Oof.
The Perk is mediocre at best. I mean, if you Killers would feel happy, the Devs can nerf it, this will upset the 3 Survivors who are actually running the perk, while the others wont care.
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The only way that even works would be if they also run Flip Flop. Because they need to be at 25% in order to active power struggle
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Ehm- powerstruggle only works on 25% percent of wiggle meter. So the counterplay is just after you picked up a survivor you just don't go through pallets
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You forgot 1 more option, force her to make a choice.
The gates are powered which means you can open them yourself.
By doing so she now has to choose, does she wait at the pallet hoping to pull off power struggle?
But if you don't pick her up, she will bleed out.
Or she can try and crawl for the exit.
Imo the best thing you could have done is before picked up the previous survivor was just open the gates first.
Hook that survivor and go back for the last one.
Huge change that she crawled to the exit hoping to escape
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Bleeding survivors out wasn't bannable even before power struggle.
It's up to you if you want to invest 4 minutes of your life standing there at staring or just risk it. Personally, in that scenario, you essentially killed two. If one gets off on the off-chance they used a meme build, I could care less. I'd rather move on to another match. But to each their own. I don't criticize you or encourage you either way.
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A survivor dying on the floor has a specific timer to it- 4 minutes. The game will end regardless of either players actions and so it's not bannable for holding the game hostage.
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I think it could be funny to pick them up and let them get their pallet slam, but, if you're not in the mood to do that, I don't think you're obligated to. The truth is that Power Struggle isn't a great perk for the situation you describe for exactly this reason -- killers won't pick the survivor up if they're worried about getting stunned. I don't think you should have to pretend that you don't know that's true.
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It would make everyone happy. We need more cool, fair and useful perks for solo players like deception, not that broken ######### like power struggle, that is overpowered in broken as always SWF.
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I get that your argument is that power struggle isnt strong and no one runs it because it requires two perks to work in this situation. But the scenario plays out exactly the same if they are running unbreakable by itself. They sit at pallet at 99% recovery and wait for you walk near to get up and pallet stun and escape. regardless of if you think the perk is strong doesn't matter. The question i was posing was, is waiting for bleed out in this situation toxic/bannable? Which this seems to be a pretty one sided answer of no to both.
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It is not taking the game hostage. Taking the game hostage means traping a player in the game for a prolonged time without any way for them to get out of the match (apart from DC). The slugged player will bleed out eventually (after 4 mins), so they got a "path" of getting out of the game without requiring the killer to comply.
As a matter of fact, it's next to impossible for a killer to hold the game hostage. He can body block / trap a single player into a corner endlessly yes, but the game will be over in no time, since the other survivors can do gens and escape, which will also kill the trapped player due to EGC (so there is a way out of the game). Only if it's the last surv and EGC is not running, it would count as actual taking the game hostage.
For survivor side, two survivors doing nothing but crouching and hiding and not touching a gen for 10+ minutes is generally considered taking the game hostage against the killer.
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That is another problem in it of itself but has to do nothing with powerstruggle. Powerstruggle is fine as it requires two other perks one not even really useful at all to be pulled off. And i rather play against powerstruggle unbreakable Flipflop than against adrenaline unbreakable Ds.
unbreakable itself is a perk worth talking about however that is not the discussion at hand. The discussion is about powerstruggle and only powerstruggle and powerstruggle, in my opinion, is completely fine, you just pick up survivors you down at pallets sooner.
edit; the way you play is not a bannable offense because you are not activly taking the game hostage (btw as far as i am aware activity taking the game hostage and intentionally trolling by trapping teammates as survivor/teaming with the killer in a disruptive way are the only ingame behavior that can actually get you banned.) But also if someone calls you toxic when they are doing this strat and you wait for them to bleed out they can not really call you toxic since its a toxic way of them playing in the first place.
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I think bleed out is 4 mins.
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Slugging people is not bannable.
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