Mori definitely harder to take advantage of now
Against a decent Survivor team, imo, it's basically tunnel for the kill or play normally and likely waste the Mori.
I only ever use a Mori offering when there is a challenge or ritual for it so, it's not a huge deal to me but last night was the first time I've used one (Nurse daily for 1 kill) since the nerf, and against a decent Survivor team, I felt I had no choice but to tunnel the crap out of 1 player and essentially throw the game just to get that 1 kill.
Map selection did not help - Coldwind Farm with those cornfields is pretty crappy for me with Nurse - so I did lose my target a couple of times and lost time that way. We all already know Survivors hate being tunneled and so I don't normally do that but to finish the daily, I felt I had no choice here. Playing "normally" against this team would have likely been a waste of a Mori because they knew what I was doing and pulled all sorts of body blocking shenanigans to prevent it.
I ended the game with two kills. I normally do better with Nurse but I'm rusty as I haven't played her in weeks and I got a non-ideal map so, I wasn't too disappointed overall. My Mori kill was quite satisfying though as the Survivor tried to hide and heal on those hay bales by that big piece of farm equipment with the ramps going up either side of it (not sure what it's called) - they were just close enough to the edge on the side you can't walk up for me to down her from below and finish her off. The other I sacrificed normally but I think they let him die because they'd just powered the gates when I hooked him, and since I ran NOED for this game (expecting I would be giving them easy gen repairs by having to waste time focusing one person), they might have been scared of being downed after all of that but strangely enough, NOED didn't seem to work anyway. Not sure if it's bugged, but I slashed a survivor and it did not down them. I know the totem was up because I ran right by it on the way to the gate where the remaining 2 survivors were... Is it buggy? First time using it so, not sure how it behaves normally.
TL;DR
Anyway, as far as Mori's go, I think the nerf essentially makes them a waste of an offering which forces Killers to throw the game tunneling 1 or 2 players if they wanna get use out of it, pissing off Survivors who hate that in the process. BHVR should consider alternatives to the nerf if they want Mori's to be useable again.
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Require everyone to be hooked once. Done
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Optionally, you.. play normally and get to use it as a consequence of playing well.
I don't get why people feel like they HAVE to tunnel to use the Mori or that it encourages tunnelcamping or whatever. It's an offering. Same slot you use for remove two chests and slightly decrease hook distance. It shouldn't change the entire game or change your entire playstyle around it.
If you're going to tunnel to make use of the mori, it's not really that distinguishable from just tunneling someone to death normally.
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I had the bubba mori challenge last night and everyone kept dying on the second hook, caught the last guy by the hatch and luckily enough they had only been hooked once but they had progressed to second stage so was able to mori them.
Team was hyper focused on gens and slow at saves. I'm on the other side of the map thinking for crying out loud someone save that guy so I can mori them later, but nope. Tedious.
The boo boo crybabies have won.
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I see what you're saying, and normally I would play that way, but consider the possibility of only having one Mori, and you want to get that ritual done...obviously, you're going to alter your playstyle to try and make sure you get it done that game. There's no room there for playing normally and hoping for the naturally occurring opportunity to use it.
Also, playing normally, obviously, there are a lot of differing scenarios we could contemplate for how things would play out this way, but I feel playing normally would also result in less opportunity to utilize the Mori. If I'm playing normally, going around slashing and hooking everyone, things start to get demoralizing for Survivors pretty quick, so I start to see less and less attempts at saves and more focus on just getting gens done while they can. So people end up dying on hooks when really, to get my Mori ritual done, I need them to save each other...twice. It becomes better to focus 1 and have 3 other healthy, confident survivors remain for making saves.
I dunno, like I said, we can contemplate a lot of scenarios that favor me or favor survivors, that's just one. In terms of Mori + Ritual, this forced me to play a way I know survivors hate, and for 1 trial I had to be "that Killer" which people feel ruins the game.
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Moris are in a good place now. They are an alternate to final hook and can get around stuff like Dstrike.
They were too good and now they are fairly basic. This is great.
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The mori nerf is fine. What needs to be done is for it to be removed from the blood web and made base-kit.
I just hope the devs are fair and equally nerf keys, allowing only the key holder to escape, with a long animation to unlock the hatch. They also need to make it to where the hatch only spawns once all gens are complete or only one survivor remains.
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I never really liked the Mori rituals to begin with, honestly. It's the ONE ritual you can't just get by playing the game normally, you always have to bring a mori or a perk. Makes people think about it too hard and play dumb, I always reroll them when I get them. I think they should just scrap it wholesale.
And I guess at that point it's just a difference of methodology. I feel like it's a nice bonus to bring just in case, with some solid use in the right situations and it isn't really something I think about. I DO completely understand feeling like it's a tool to use and wanting to get some use out it though-- you spent the blood points to get it, you want a return, and it ain't as easy to get one as last time.
Though if you're demoralizing survivors enough to keep them from unhooking, and they're dying on hook often enough that it's hard to make use of your moris, that sounds like you're winning and don't need 'em.
I still blame Rituals though.
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What would make Moris good is If D strike was only useable on a Kill hook.
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The nerf looks nowhere near to a solution to what has supposedly been planned for months/years. I was expecting a change that would fix more problems, not 1 of the problems.
I will acknowledge that this change doesn’t reduce the Killers workload by 50% like the previous Mori. That’s good, solves the issues where games went too quickly when a Mori was brought.
However, it doesn’t fix the big issue of Killers tunnelling hard to use the Mori (probably increases the amount of tunnelling due to the increased requirement). The offering may fit around normal game-play, but if a player brings an ultra-rare offering with a fun cinematic during a Bloodpoint crisis, they will mostly definitely try to get as much use out of the offering.
It doesn’t fix the issue with usage during volatile matches (where a 4K match is preceded by a 0K match and so on). A player bringing an ultra-rare offering has an expectation to at least use once. We obviously don’t need to be silly and expect the Survivors to start the match pre-hooked to make it easier for those less skilled, but I would expect a scaling requirement so that the first Mori is easy to achieve but make a 4K something that requires work.
I was expecting a change similar player suggestions. Examples like;
- Give it a counter system like Spirit Fury so you can choose when to Mori a player without tunnelling them
- Increasing the requirement but adding more ways for to achieve this requirement (hitting Survivors, breaking pallets, etc.)
- Provide Survivors who can be Mori’d with buffs to balance out the match.
Instead, we got what looks like a quick fix solution.
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Honestly, this line was my biggest issue with the change to moris:
'Playing "normally" against this team would have likely been a waste of a Mori because they knew what I was doing and pulled all sorts of body blocking shenanigans to prevent it.'
The best milage I ever got out of using a mori was when people were so afraid of it, that they would try to do that stuff immediately after the first unhook. People would throw games HARD just trying to save their buddy, and so early in the game too. Making it require that person be two hooked takes that pressure and tension away considerably, as well as completely nullify any time that the killer would gain from even using the thing.
I still say that they should be shifted so that Ivory Mori works like Ebony does now, and Ebony should be changed to be what Ivory used to be (one Mori per match, can be done after first hook.) That would make them considerably less predictable, while not being anywhere near as powerful as Ebony used to be.
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I actually tend to agree with this.
There are things that need to be removed from the bloodwebs. Like toolboxes and all their addons, green keys, and other stupid stuff that serve no purpose like Moris.
If hatch only spawns when all gens are complete there's no need to nerf keys further. Keys would already be useless at that point and it is on the same level of nerf moris had. No need to limit it to one survivor and no need to limit it with a long animation.
That's like saying to Mori a killer has to press the M1 button for 10 seconds. I mean that's pretty dumb.
Might as well make the key basekit as well at that point. oh wait wasn't that how things were before EGC?
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I rarely used moris to begin with, less after their first nerf, certainly not now, might as well ignore the kill challenges and dailies and just get the extra hooking points. 🤷
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farm equipment with the ramps going up either side of it (not sure what it's called)
They are called "Combines" kinda like a more heavy duty tractor specifically for farming.
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Taking advantage of mori's. Finally, someone admits to what we all already knew. I for one really like the change. It was overdue, and I haven't seen a mori since. Survivors being able to actually play and not be dead in 2 minutes is nice..
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The mori animation takes awhile. If you can only now use it after the second hook, it's value seems pretty limited. Sure it may save a DS, but aside from that the time it takes to complete the mori animation, seems you could've walked to a hook and sacrificed them in a similar amount of time. I suppose if you down 2 ppl near a hook it let's the killer stay in the vicinity, but eh.
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Why do you HAVE to focus on one person? Surely if you do well as a killer you will get the requisite hooks naturally and be able to use the mori still?
Especially if, as you are saying, you are using it purely to satisfy the ritual?
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They are borderline useless.. I only equip them out of spite when I see keys, and tunnel the ######### out of them
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I literally just had a match where I had a mori daily for my hag. I used a yellow mori and got it done normally. 4k bp expense and I didn't go out of my way to satisfy the ritual. There's a difference between wanting an overpowered offering and just completing a daily.
Plus being carried by a mori against good survivors just means you are trash.
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Fat chance of them changing keys
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Mori difinitely harder to take "advantage".
Sorry that you have to tunnel the survivors twice. :(
I never used moris to begin with, only back then for the achievments. I got tunneled to death in the first minutes instead.
Never use keys either. Plus i dodge lobbys as a survivor when i see teammate with a key because i get ditched on hook most of the time.
So nerf them to the ground. Don't care. :)
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To be clear, when I say "take advantage," I mean getting any sort of benefit out of it, not exploiting it to slaughter the whole team in a couple minutes.
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The post literally says he had a ritual?
I'm not gonna defend moris with my life but now i've wasted 7k PER MORI, a change was in order but bhvr's balncing team went with the ole well ######### if 80% of our playerbase is gonna complain we might as well delete it and sweep the broken glass up later.
So in real terms, the 80% of the players about 70% survs and 10% killers/balanced complained, then ######### off the other 20% and left them with nothing other than wasted BP and a sour taste in their mouth, without realising that the challenges would create problems since they're now underpowered as #########, causing tunneling and the 80% to have something to blame on the 20% while in reality we're just trying to play the game.
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Literally the first sentence of the post talks about tunneling to use the mori, so I think it was pretty on-topic.
Don't begrudge the dude for dealing with his rituals how he do, they're still dumb, and so are the Rift challenges in general.
And if 100% of players weren't complaining about an offering that cut the game in half, i'd be concerned.
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Moris are one of the most hotly debated topics in the game.
im not begrudging him for doing it I interpreted your first line as exactly that and basically aa suited up "git gud" message.
I literally even said "we're just playing the game" in defense of his tunneling because there was aritual and he has no easy way to get it.
I think we're on the same side of this issue but on a different side on the "change the entire game issue", I in support of it being changed to something like hook everone once - you being in support of what I'd consider there utter deletion and irrelevancy.
I'm sorry if i've come off as insulting or mistranslated your meaning. After all it's just a game and I suppose we can be passionate about how we think it should be.
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S'all good.
I just don't know where the narrative of "If you want to use moris you need to tunnelcamp" springs from-- feels like a lot of spent effort trying to pretend it's how it used to be instead of utilizing it more like a nice bonus that still has good uses in a couple situations.
Which i'm more in favor of than "Hooking everyone once and then being able to mori everyone", because that's still going to cut a lot of games nearly in half. Why an offering ever had that level of power to begin with, I don't know, but now it's at least closer to par with being able to remove two chests from the next trial for 1000 less BP.
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If getting one kill is all that matters, tunnel away. If you're going against a good team as you said, if you do nothing but tunnel one person, the rest should walk out easily. I know that's what happens to me when I'm tunneled. My other teammates walk out without even being touched most of the time.
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My advice, and take it with a grain of salt, is that you you don't actually have to tunnel the traditional way. You just make sure the person hits second stage on the hook by patrolling vigorously and proxy camping. Once they hit struggle bus, let them make the rescue and then just down them and Mori without having to worry about DS. Even against good Survivors it is pretty easy to to achieve this unsavory trick. Most GOOD Survivors like to milk that first hook and go late for the unhook to get them before they go to 2nd Stage. This means you only have to play keep away for a short time before they hit struggle bus.
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I suppose that narrative comes from a place of all the hate in KvS over twitter and in-game. it's always been you have keys? Mori them all.
It kinda feels like having a poker hand ripped away from you losing that ace up your sleeve, I think moris and keys are given a bad rep by the genuine malicious people abusing them.
I just think it hurts especially hard now, its kinda blow after blow, pop nerf, new killer which is very "bad" in a lot of peoples eyes and now no moris.
Not to mention the percieved bias towards survs, which makes sense they're like the 70% so why not pander to them?
In light of the mori balancing, I do think it's gonna be more than what its written on paper, because you could waste time chasing the same survivor, you could have an immersed survivor ect. a possible change alternative could be for every 2 DIFFERENT survivors hooked you can kill a survivor that has already been hooked but not if they've been hooked in the last 60 seconds or were the last survivor unhooked
This way it would fix the problem of a first hook mori and would force someone to get surv 1, hook, get surv 2, hook, retrace surv 1, mori
this aims to allow the survivor to recooperate and hide.
If they were downed in the 60 seconds they cannot be moried until they're hooked and unhooked or put into the injured/ healthy state and then downed again not inside the 60 seconds.
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Oh yeah. How people managed to turn KvS into some kind of cold war class vendetta is beyond me, but both sides having such nuclear options probably never fostered good faith.
4 DS Unbreakable BNP/Key gamers and tunnelcamp ebony mori spirit/nurse likely did a lot of people dirty that really didn't deserve it.
At least Ormond got reworked, though. And I remember before Crossplay was introduced (and worked) that survivor queues generally went by in a flash and killer queues took minutes 'cause too many killers and not enough survivors on PC. It's not the case on console, but I mostly attribute that to the format not being super killer-friendly-- so I don't envy the devs job to try and maintain the holy 80%/20% ratio while everyone screams at them for bias.
And as for moris.. I dunno. I understand those fixes, I think it'd be a lot better than how it was, but I think it's a lot to expect people to try and outplay it that hard when they aren't even sure if it's in play or not. I just don't think an offering should have that level of sheer power, and there's no way solo players would be able to coordinate hard enough to get around it.
That's just how I feel about it, though.
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Just to finish off the moris, I can relate - however, in my opinion, they've become redundant and ahem ######### off useless
I think it should be buffed but I do think we're stuck with this due to the aptly put holy 80:20 ratio
Suppose the vietcong Killer's legion is current waiting upon the assassination of J. F. Keyendy.
I suppose we should just stand down and repect eachothers opinions, so I hope that's what's happened here
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i dont even run them, and if u need them to stand a chance against decent survivors, not even top, decent then you may need to get better at the game or play at lower ranks.
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Uh... The only thing they changed about mori's is that there are no more ONE HOOK MORI'S. Has NOTHING TO DO with how the game is played. That is all BY PLAYER'S CHOICE how the game is played. Don't blame your weak tunneling technique on a nerf that has nothing to do with it.
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On death hook only. it shouldnt be an advantage it should be a fatality .
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Leave it as it is. It’s an offering it shouldn’t be there to carry the win for you.
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lol moris are bad to use they take to much time for no reason
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This isn't entirely true. You can simply Mori off the first hook IF they get to 2nd Stage. It isn't that hard to make sure that happens.
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Good. There is no Survivor offering to have part of the gens fix themselves or gates automatically open when gens are powered. Seriously there is no super strong offering. Only Mori's severely dictated matches at load screen and that needed taken out.
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Who said the mori is supposed to be some OP thing that lets you dominate every game? Maybe the devs just want it to be a cool visual effect. Just because moris aren’t as good as they used to be doesn’t mean anything
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Which unfortunately, use to happen more often than we'd like. I'm glad it doesn't now, because that sucked.
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