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Why is it taking such a long time for the devs to remove perk tiers?
Removing perk tiers has been a recommended solution to the long grind for a really long time now, and they still haven't done anything about it. How come they haven't done anything about it to this day? What's taking them such a long time for a solution to the grind?
Comments
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Some grind is desired to maintain an artificial game longevity, and low key in addition to its beneficial effects on retention some people do legitimately like progressing through the web, even if right now its ridiculous.
Removing tiers would cut the web's duration down to 1/3rd its current length, ignoring teachables. You would go from 258 survivor perks per-character per-prestige to only 86, for example. That is a huge reduction, and arguably 258 is completely ridiculous and way too much, and 86 means there are still 36 levels to go after prestiging, but they may feel that is still too sharp a reduction, especially for survivors who have little reason to prestige every character or even level them past getting teachables, and may risk the retention effect of long grinds a bit too much.
I think its a fine idea, but there just is an active disincentive on BHVR's side to do this. Perhaps a middle ground might be making perks you know upgradeable at 10k BP rather than found again on the web, which still adds an extra 1,720,000 BP required to max out a character currently, but at least removes the need to go through an entire bloodweb to get at em.
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I don't know I kinda like the grind.
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Keep the base tiers in the Bloodweb and let us level our perks outside of it. I've gone over 100 tiers before getting the perk I want, it's awful and will only get worse the more perks they add.
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I wouldn't mind them getting rid of perk tiers, but I feel like they won't do that until they just have too many perks in the game and the grind is literally unbearable. Atm it's pretty bad, but I wouldn't say it's unbearable. I prestige my characters and got my Pig up to Prestige 3 Level 50 just before Pyramid Head came out and then got all the perks to Tier 3 on her before Blight's PTB and I didn't exactly play her every single match. It's the same exact thing with my David King too.
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I like the grind as is. I prestiged a survivor in 1 week when playing every day, without really playing that much on the weekends.
I think the level 50 bloodwebs could be a little more forgiving. I also think the bloodwebs should offer more perks sooner when you have more survivors / killers unlocked.
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I think the first 15 bloodwebs should all offer 2 perks (with the Entity still not coming into play until Level 10) then after that each Bloodweb offers 4 perks. That way it's easier to get the perks you want. Maybe that reduces the grind to much or it increases it a bit idk, but that's what I think should happen.
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remove perk tiers and you just wasted like 4000 hours of my life trying to max the characters out that i did max out.
i kinda dont want them to go - unless we get some exclusives for people who went through that trouble before it got removed, which is not gonna happen.
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oh yes let's make it so you don't have to do much with the blood web. people will do their dailies and stop playing for 3 days and then do 3 more. then they will play other things. the reason it's a grind is to keep people pushing to get the perks as well as the items but once the perks are gotten the web is stagnate till they need something if they play at all. meh i really think this is fine, it makes people push for the perks and more. anyways I doubt they will take that out of the game as it is litterally the ONLY reason to do the blood web for the most part. remove that and it's easy mode to get what you wanted and then you'll be bored.
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They can just remove perk tiers and increase the price of all items and perks in the bloodweb, so it's still has some grindy but not the one we have.
It's a good change because really perk tiers are stupid, some perks have difference of like 2-3 seconds for each tier.
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again with 2 perks to choose from in most webs 10 to 39 and then 3 from 40 to 49 and 4 at level 50, the grind will be significantly reduced and people will get the perks in and it doesn't matter what things cost. it's not a good solution to remove the tiers. here is the thing, you will see the problem: there are about 85 perks in the game per side (about as there are less killers than survivors) but for each of them that means you must complete a minimum of that number of blood webs to get them by removing the tiers. and everything is bland you have no variance in what is done. so no matter what you have now made it simple and quick to get every perk in the blood web but you end up not having to do anything for ages because you don't have perks to get and you only get items from in the game so you don't have to do much at all. you get bored as there is nothing to do but repeat games with the same boring small pp build (or killer version of this) and then what do you do? you go find another game to play. so the burn out happens faster without the grind.
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I think a little reduction on the amount of grind required would be nice, but they probably shouldn't take it too far, and I doubt they will. If you were to cut 2/3rds of the grind out of the game, it would make alot of players who had p3d characters and gotten all perks feel robbed, as well as disincentivise alot of players from playing. I mean technically, you only need one survivor with all perks and then the killers you are good at and you've practially got almost everything in the game that you'll need at that time.
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I would rather condense some perks into one rather than take away tiers. Combine Brutal and Agitation, or Bond and Prove Thyself for example.
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Because they hate us :(
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The grind isn't as long as it was before they added the ability to get up to 2 perks a blood web, though with each new chapter adding 3 more perks it is getting back to that same spot it once was in. it usually takes me around 6 mil blood points (when at lvl 50) to gain all survivor perks. Probably more last time i did it for a survivor was when felix came out.
I feel that the grind for all perks on a single survivor/killer isn't the issue as i did max 3 different characters (p3 all perks) during this rift and still am 2 levels short of finishing my rift which i've done every archive challenge for.
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Yeah,being able to upgrade your perks would considerably reduce the grind but not too much.
That would be the best idea imo
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They don't want to remove long grind. Grind is the magic ingredient of long-term games like this which milk money from players over the years.
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It happened before.
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yeah, but they already said they wouldnt want to do it again.
so i highly doubt its gonna happen - its possible, but i doubt it.
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You're basically the flavour text for the Oppression perk "Life has been hard for you, and you're going to make it hard on others"
That is NOT a good reason to not improve something. Yeah we've all grinded DBD and it sucks. It really sucks for new players. Think of them.
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you do know there are other ways of reducing the grind without screweing over long time players, yes?
i never said i didnt want changes to reduce the grind - i merely stated that i didnt like this specific idea. there are plenty of other possibilities:
we have a Daily Challenge system that is in desperate need of an update, new things like the Tomes can be added with more rewards, they can generally increase the BP gain, BP multipliers can be added either with events or maybe have them earnable by doing something (maybe a challenge, maybe as prestige rewards, more of them in form of offerings), etc.
if you wanna make such a drastic change, i want to get something for all the time i invested.
so either make a Legacy 2.0 that i can proudly wear, or find another way.
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You've already been screwed over. Accept that and stop standing in the way of making the game better for new players.
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no, i have not.
also, "Accept that and stop standing in the way of making the game better for new players." - you havent read past the first sentence, have you?
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Take it from me I wouldn't be offended..id be relived at not having to do it again and again with every new release
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A lot of things have been suggested for years now.
Just cause it makes sense to 99.9% of the people doesn't guarantee it'll come one day.
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But even the devs themselves have said that they've been wondering about if they maybe should remove perk tiers or not. There are many ppl that seem to agree on removing perk tiers on other popular threads about the grind.
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I think they should remove perk tiers. Some perks it doesn’t really make much of a difference of Tier 1 to Tier 3 while some are drastically huge. Also with how many survivors and killer we currently have, and not to mention how many offerings that are just bloodpoints wasters (Luck offerings, single category point offerings, cut coins for killers, etc). Plus you have to reach Lv50 to even be able to get 2 perks per bloodweb which quite a bit of bloodpoints to get to.
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A maybe's not a yes.
I've heard them like lots of things that they don't implement.
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Stop being stubborn and pointlessly disagreeing with me, it's making you a liar:
"remove perk tiers and you just wasted like 4000 hours of my life trying to max the characters out that i did max out.
i kinda dont want them to go - unless we get some exclusives for people who went through that trouble before it got removed, which is not gonna happen."
"you do know there are other ways of reducing the grind without screweing over long time players, yes?"
Come on man, pay attention to what you write.
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The grind is meant to keep us playing.
However many online games don't require grinds as they trust their game is fun enough to keep people around. This game should trust the players and reduce the grind by about 75% - Perks need only 1 tier. sharepable perks should start much sooner (level 20,25,30) There is no need to force the hundreds of hours of play just to unlock a ton of perks for some variety.
i'm nearing 500 hours. I have 80% of survivovrs to level 40. I have 1 survivor with all the shareable perks. that is absurd it took this long. (some of that time was unlocking killer perks as well such as BBQ, which is a Huge help in BP grinding.
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This. Really good games will have you coming back for the gameplay, not the grind. The people who have been playing this game for thousands of hours do it because the game is fun, not because we find unlocking perks fun. I have 2000+ hours in the game and I haven't needed BP for a long time and I already unlocked everything I want (outside of cosmetics), but I still come back to this to play because its fun.
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seems like you didnt get my point, so let me explain it a little bit more clearly:
there are ways of adding NEW things into the game that come with rewards that will increase the amount of BP you earn in the future, that simultaneously do not take away already existing things people have spent thousands of hours achieving.
by doing so all the grind we went through in the past is not made meaningless, there are new gameplay elements for everyone to enjoy AND we reduce the future grind of this game.
a great example are the tomes: each tome comes with hundrets of thousands of bonus BP you get by completing challenges. it feels rewarding to get them, they add something new to the game, they reduce the grind we have AND they dont screw long time players over, instead they give them more reason to play the game and participate.
if done right, such a new implementation can be a win - win for everyone - long time players get new and exciting goals while new players get boni that help them progress through the game and obtain what they need.
removing perk tiers is not that. it removes something that has been in the game for a long time now without adding anything new in. this has two flaws for me:
1) people who worked their ace off to get these perks on level 3 just get "robbed" off of their items. its the same scenario like when people asked the devs to "just delete moris" (or any other item) - players spend a lot of time and effort getting said item and you cant just go and take it away from them, that would simply be unfair towards those who did, unless they receive something in return to make up for all the time they sank into this.
2) this specific change would cut the grind this game has by such a significant amount, that it would, for me, hardly be worth playing anymore. the main reason why i am still playing this game is, because i work towards the goal of having every killer in this game fully maxed out. now, what exactly would happen if you were to remove perk tiers? you would effectively cut the amount of perk you need to get to fully max out a character by 2/3, so the total (current) amount would go from 234 to 78. this would mean by the time a character hits level 50 (= is ready for prestige), they are almost maxed out already. with such a huge reduction i would be done maxing everyone out within probaply 2 or 3 months, meaning i would stop playing this game until a new character comes out and i have something to work towards again.
and i know there are a lot who feel this way. by taking away too much of the grind without bringing anything new to the game, like this idea suggests, players would quickly reach a point where they have everything and the game becomes boring and stale. you need to always have something to work towards in order to have the motivation to do something, if you dont have that then it gens very boring very fast.
TL;DR: you should focus on reducing the grind by adding NEW things into the game, not by taking already existing things away. that way you can not only add more interesting features to this game, you also wont "rob" us, who worked hard to get the amount of items we have, off our hard earned prizes.
also, here are some suggestions i have for reducing the grind, as you dont seem to want to believe me that i do infact want to help newer players and reduce the grind aswell:
- passive perk upgrading. why not allow perks to passively upgrade when you ran them for X amout of matches? that way new players can quickly get the perks they want to high levels, while long time players can get the perks they are missing by playing new perk builds they havent played a lot yet. also, why not make the BW only feature lvl 1 perks until you gathered all of them? it would help letting everyone get every perk at lvl 1 faster, so they can then start passively leveling them up.
- a rework of the daily challenge system. i was thinking about a system that adds 3 challenges to both sides, starting easy and then growing in difficulty. beating a challenge could reward you with a certain amount of BP, aswell as a BP boost for the side you completed the challenge with for the rest of the day (something like 1.5x for the 1st, 1.75x for the 2nd and 2x for the 3rd - stacks with offerings and perks ofc).
- an increase to the genral BP gain from trials. with the growing grind it only makes sense to increase the general BP gain you can get from the trials you play. we could start by increasing the BP cap from 32k to 64k and doubling the amount of BP you earn for each action. (or we can take both by 1.5x or 3x or ..., the numbers arent important right now) - oh and screw the general 1.000.000 BP cap we have right now.
- rank rewards. each rank reset you get BP, the amount variies for each rank there is. the higher your ranking, the higher the reward at the end of the season. this would also need to come with a system that passively takes away your rank during a season should you not play, so that players cant just push to rank 1 and then not play anymore.
- selling unwanted items / add ons / offerings. we all have tons of those we dont ever use on our characters, so why not sell them for X% of their original price so we can continue to level characters until we got what we want?
- adding more events. events can bring a lot to this game, yet currently BHVR seems to want to get rid of them. imo we should instead add a lot more of them with new features like bonus challenges, community challenges, new objectives, BP boosts, etc. this would keep the game interesting and fresh, while also giving out great rewards to those who participate well.
and im sure there are a lot more possibilities.
but can you spot the striking difference between all of these ideas and yours?
instead of taking already existing things away from the game, which "just take away perk tiers" clearly does, each and every single one of these ideas adds something new and unique to the game.
in the long run, every single one of these suggestions i made are imho a lot healthier to this game than yours would be.
and that is why im against yours.
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Before they added the 2 perk over 40 change it was around 12 million points, that was ridiculous.
What they need to do is allow players to pay the required bloodpoints for all tiers of a perk in a single bloodweb.
Pay the required 4000 for tier 1 of a perk and then you are able to pay 5000 for tier 2 and 6000 for tier 3 in that same bloodweb.
Right now with 86 perks on Survivor it takes roughly 6.5 million points with everything unlocked to go from level 1 P3 to all perks P3.
This would reduce that cost in half to around 3 million points which is still a lot but acceptable considering how many Survivors and Killers there are now.
Getting certain perks would be much more accessible on a character as well if they didn't want to Prestige or are just starting out.
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I read literally none of that. advice: when people give you one sentence responses, they're not THAT interested in speaking with you, don't put that much effort in. no hard feelings. I feel genuinely sorry for wasting your time.
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yeah i noticed you werent reading my stuff, your last answers to me made that pretty clear.
thats why i provided you with a TL;DR.
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