Should DS be basekit?
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Sure, if it's severely nerfed (halve stun time, timer ends if you work on gens,etc) and the original perk is reworked.
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Well, neither Dead Hard nor Boil Over are anti tunneling. Dead Hard is just something to prolong a chase and maybe allow you to get to a pallet/window. Boil Over is to try and waste some more of the killer's time to a hook, but it almost never becomes relevant. Flip Flop is just a troll perk, it rarely gets any value at all (and that is IF someone runs it). Nobody plays with Self Care anymore, unless they don't have anything better to replace it with. Mettle of Man WAS OP, now it just a trash perk, and it also rarely sees any use. Soul Guard works until you have a hex totem up. If you bring Undying, you can't really whine about that. And let's be serious, I have never seen anyone using Any Means Necessary (pallet reset), and even if they did, very few killers will not break a pallet. Repressed Alliance (Gen blocking) is also rarely used, even though it sees somewhat more use than other perks. But still, killers like to claim that by tunneling and camping they are doing their objective, so they should not be blamed for it. With that perk, survivors are rewarded for doing their objective, too, so why should it not work the same way for them? There really aren't many anti-tunneling perks, tbh, just a couple of them, or it wouldn't be a thing anymore.
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No
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You lost me at nobody plays with self care anymore ngl lol, I dunno what games you've had but that is just incorrect.
If you're telling me all the perks I listed are useless because they're situational then okay, every killer perk is useless now too for the same reason. Perks aren't meant to win you the game, they offer a slight advantage/new mechanic and how you use it is up to you. It costs you one perk slot to bring DS, it should not be basekit.
I like someone else's idea here though, DS can be basekit when NOED is basekit
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Yes
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Wat
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I said nobody plays with Self Care, unless they don't have anything worthwhile to take its place, which is very farm from being incorrect. The drastic drop of Self Care users has been a thing since it was nerfed, which I think was like over 2 years ago. Of all the games I have as both killer and survivor, I find pink flying unicorns to be less rare than a Self Care player is. I would completely erase DS and NoeD from the game, tbh, as well as bloodlust and infinites.
And no, killers actually have more useful perks than survivors do. Truly useful survivor perks are limited to the same 5-6 choices: Dead Hard, Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Unbreakable, Iron Will and, occasionally, We'll Make It. Other perks like Prove Thyself can be there, but they are far from being truly useful or as much used as any of the above.
Killers, on the other hand, have Nurse's Calling, BBQ, PGTW, Ruin, Undying, Corrupt Intervention, Tinkerer, Haunted Grounds, Franklin's Demise, Lightborn, Spirit Fury, Enduring, Dying Light, Blood Echo and Oppression. And this only covers the perks that are useful and strong on every single killer. Were we to add perks that are also good, but do wonders on specific killers, then we would also have STBFL, PWYF, Infectious Fright, Thanatophobia, Stridor, Unnerving Presence, Distressing, Monitor & Abuse, Make Your Choice, Bamboozle, Iron Maiden, Discordance, Coup de Grace.
I don't see how that counts as not having anything to work with or useless perks. Survivors have very few tools at their disposal (and I am talking about solo), which can be ok, since they also (sadly) have 4-men SWF. But still, you can't really complain about them always doing the same things if
A) Killers almost always tunnel;
B) Those are the only good perks they have.
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Making it more worth it to go for healthy survivors would help a ton more against tunneling rather then DS.
Give survivors a repair speed penalty while injured and a repair speed bonus for every dead survivor and tunneling will become a losing strategy which will make most people drop it
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Killers have more somewhat usefull perks, but survivors have stronger more game changing perks overall. If devs added no perk mode, there would be more killers playing it than survivor.
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Not gonna lie, I would really love that right now it would free a slot for head on or that power struggle or whatever it's called to maximize potential in a troll loadout
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In a different form, sure.
In it’s current iteration, no.
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Of course, and no wonder that would happen. Kinda stating the obvious here. Without perks, on an individual basis, there is not much survivors can do. Killers, on the other hand, still have their unique powers, different move speed, height and TR. Have a gamemode where there are no perks on either side, nor do killers have the ability to use their powers. It would be equally played by both sides or, much more probably, remain untouched forever.
Then again, survivors have more game changing perks? DS, Dead Hard and Unbreakable. That's it. Borrowed Time doesn't change a thing, unless you tunnel. Or unless you can't resist the urge to smack those who try to bodyblock and take the hit, but it falls on you alone. Killers have Ruin, Nurse's, Infectious Fright and BBQ that do half the work for them, Undying to have that Ruin doing work fro them even longer, Corrupt to block gens at the start for a sizable amount of time. Can't really say that perks like PGTW, Ruin, Undying, Spirit Fury, Enduring, Lightborn, Tinkerer, NoeD and BBQ aren't game changers. Some matches can be won because of PGTW alone. Not to mention that BLOODLUST isn't a perk at all.
I'm not saying survs don't have anything going for them, I am just arguing that saying killers don't have game changers, and even more of them + more useful perks is baffling.
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People are probably yelling at you for this being a terrible version of DBS but i want to remind everyone of something
The best way to counter DS is to tunnel and get rid of it asap.
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I'm talking abaut perks, but now you bring killer power into it. You do understand killer has his power for a reason right? it's 1v4 game, so obviously killer is supposed to have upper hand in chase mechanic. What you are saying it would be "equal" if killer was just 5% faster movement speed, while survivors still would have faster window vaulting, pallets.. it wouldn't be equal at all. It's like me saying ok fine, killer has no power, but survivors cannot vault windows faster nor drop pallets at all, now we are equal?
There is a reason why wraith is considered worst killer in high ranks, because he has nothing going on for him in chase. Survivors always had overall much stronger perks, to a point they weren't perks, but actual powers/ skills. Like 25 second sprint burst, We will make it 300% healing speed for 2 minutes, including yourself.. these weren't perks but actual powers lol
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Should second chances be basekit...
aren't hook stages already a thing
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no
obsessions should spawn no matter what though, which would be better imo
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No, survivors just need to get better at avoiding the killer. If you feel the need to be sheltered from the only opposition, maybe play something solo with adjustable difficulty.
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I never said killers should have no powers, I said that it's obvious there would be no survivors playing a mode like the one you suggested, as they wouldn't have anything going for them. As much as there would be no killers, if they were obliged to play without perks or powers. I was just replying to what you said which, again, was kinda obvious. Pretty much like saying that if you take someone's food from his hands, he's not going to eat.
As much as that CAN be true, there is little you can do against tunneling and bloodlust, unless you find a god loop. And even there, the killer will get you, sooner or later. This has nothing to do with getting better, it has to do with flawed game mechanics.
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You just have to try and shake the killer. As great as holding the killer's attention is for the team, your not obligated to do it until your downed. Perk choice is a help but not even necessary to break a chase or evade the killer.
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People always argue which side has stronger perks, but survivors always had stronger more impact full perks to a point they were more like skills than perks. This is why i said no perk mode for either side would really solve it. Obviously survivors still could vault windows faster, have pallets so i don't see how you can claim they have "Nothing" going on for them.
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Nothing going on for them, precisely means what I said. Perks are complementary, but also are something that allows survivors to do something they would not be able to do, otherwise. All a survivor becomes after level 40 is a skin, which means they are all equal. Without perks, the only thing they could do to fight the killer would be baseline, mostly running until Bloodlust will favor the killer enough. That's what I mean. Of course, this stems from the argument of whether or not certain perks are balanced, but some, frustrating as they are, become necessary. At least, until the game is left in its current state.
That is only partially true. Someone with decent enough game awareness will hardly lose the survivor he is chasing. And since the vast majority of killers usually chase the same survivor until he would be dead anyway, because he turned 90, that is hardly ever achievable. Of course, if the killer is bad, than anything goes. But mid-tier players will be able to get at least 2 kills, just by tunneling and bloodlust alone.
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deadhard should be a basekit
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Yeah if the killer is locked on you it will be difficult, but still you can break chase without the killer giving up. Just because they want to tunnel a target doesn't mean they are gonna get them.
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I know, I never said it is completely impossible, but still. It is something that revolves more around the killer making mistakes than on the survivor being able to do something or have perks to do that something. And then, of course, maps also do the trick. It will be much easier for a survivor in Lery than it is in Azarov's.
That's a mistake. Not only do you prevent an injured player from having to heal himself (not working on a gen) or having another player heal him (2-3 people not working on gens), you also purposedly go into DS (to then possibly whine about it) AND make them hate the game, which means they can consider to stop playing it, if all killers play like that. Which means, that killers could be left with nobody to kill (hence, the game won't start). Of course, this is more solo-oriented talk. Both sides should really start thinking about what THEY can do to not be toxic, instead of only on what they want for themselves.
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