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I Think 99ing Gates is Unhealthy
I feel like 99ing the gates circumvents the point of the EGC. It takes away the pressure of the timer and feels unfair. It also makes bloodwarden unusable.
I think the gates should take 10ish seconds to open but it has to be done all at once. I also feel like the EGC timer should be mre impactful. Maybe hooked\dying survivors should not slow it down, or maybe it should be faster to start with.
Survivors have many perks that make rescues very easy during the endgame, such as BT, DS+Undying, MoM...
Not to mention that even with no perks, it is easy to bodyblock and hook swarm with no fear because the gates are open or 99ed.
If the timer was faster and\or the gates could not be 99ed, I think it would be healthier for the game and would put more pressure on survivors because they would have less time to do things.
I know that this post is killer sided, so I would also like to brainstorm possible compensation for survivors. The gates could be opened faster, preforming altruistic actions could slow the timer down. Since survivors would have more pressure put on them late game saves and heals would be worth even more BP.
Thoughts?
Edit: To all the people saying to open the gate myself, that isnt necessarily a good solution. If I habe to do that, Im not pressuring survivors. Additionally, if I open it, they can just leave... the timer is far too long to make killer opening the gate a good play. Its situational at best.
Also, Almo, have you considered a small delay before gate can start being opened, like, they nees 20-30 seconds to charge?
Comments
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EGC was created to give the game an ending because there were too many times there were hatch stand offs or survivors holding game hostage by not leaving after gates were opened. The killer is able to open the door to get the game to end rather than wait for survivors to open/leave. It's not supposed to be a killers helper to get kills, it's just to get the game to end.
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You know what?
No
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EGC was a huge change that ONLY helps killers. You can open the gates instantly if you choose. You don't need any more help.
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I agree wholeheartedly. There should be regression on exit gates.
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EGC, while being killer-sided, was not intended to give the Killer more Kills or an additional tool of pressure. It was to force the game to an end so that you dont have some "funny" Survivors stealthing around the Map just to keep the game hostage (Survivors at the gate always were fine, since they can be forced out).
If you really want the EGC to start, you can open the Gate by yourself. This is why this mechanic got introduced.
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How does a killer open the gates? Like what buttons do they push if they are on PC? I ask because I haven't had to do it before and one match I was being generous. 2 people DC'ed near the start so I went easy on the remaining 2. I tried to open the gates but I didn't know how.
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Space when standing in front of the Gate.
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Agreed it also stops survivors t bagging at the gate
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It is in a good state, but yeah I also agree that being able to 99% the gates is pretty dumb. I am not sure how to fix this though.
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We tried removing 99ing gates in various ways. They all sucked really badly. This is why the Killer can open a gate if the Survivors are being hoseheads about not starting EGC.
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Nah, EGC was not intended to give killers more kills. It was about giving the game a definitive end that anyone (survivor AND killer) could initiate.
Your alternative is the gates already being open with no EGC, like how it used to be. The addition of EGC is inherently killer sided and you can open the gate if you want Blood Warden value.
99'ing gates is a perfectly fine mechanic and I've even had plenty of survivors screw themselves over by 99ing instead of just opening. I've done it a few times myself.
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Have you tested regressing the levers? Even as a perk? As things are now, I feel that it just gives survivors more control than they should have. There should be more risk to not opening the doors all the way.
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And you don’t think facecamper a guy at egc is unhealthy, do you?
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Kinda why i rarely use bloodwarden i can get it to proc though if i wanted by just opening the gate myself which if the gates far away the slug could be already up by the time i get back. Bloodwarden just needs to naturally regress the gates id think to give the survivors a choice.
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this topic comes up every so often where someone is under the impression that EGC is supposed to be a killer tool for free kills. News flash, it's not. It's goal is very clear and it accomplishes that goal. If you don't want to see a gate at 99, go open it.
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Regressing the levers is too strong in the 1v1 imo and I don't really think 99ing is enough of an issue to be worth addressing. The EGC mostly exists as a fun way of preventing the game from being taken hostage, and it still accomplishes this even with 99ing being possible.
I think it'd be fun to make lever regression a perk effect, but I wouldn't want it in the base game.
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Those Hoseheads, don't they realize that once they open the exit gates they can have all the free beer and sausages they want?
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I don’t like that the last survivor can escape through the gates after the killer closes the hatch even if they haven’t done enough gens to open the gates.
Although, this scenario very rarely affects me as killer or survivor.
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When the alternative to your opponent abusing something is opening the door for them....
Sorry but opening the door is a give up mechanic and nothing to prevent or lessen the impact of 99ing the doors.
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I agree.
I think it's time now. We need something like a regression mechanic. Like something automated by the entity or by the killer. Idk why players think that's smart. If you are communicating with the team, or when the killer has someone in the grasp - okay. A change is needed so players open them.
I also think that something has to happen with the timer. Idk what but it's too short when plays are getting done. It just cuts off gameplay and the timer is supposed to make a cut when nothing is going on anymore.
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Your very first line is the reason people 99 gate, OP:
If you want to start the egc, just open the gate yourself, it's faster as killer anyway. Don't want to 'waste' the time to let survivors go for the other gate/heal up because that'd meddle with your 'plans' of running bloodwarden and potentially noed (have you pretended to be afk as well?)? tough luck.
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No, actually I don't. My whole point of this thread was that survivors have many ways to save (hook swarm/body block, BT, DS MoM) that it doesnt matter even if they do face camp. As long as they don't have outside pressure, (the EGC timer) there is no amount of pressure that even a good killer can put on teams to stop them from getting escapes.
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Why is it the killer has to reward them by doing their job for them; if they are the ones acting like little dillweeds? Lol.
(I am mostly being facetious btw)
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I mean, it's not? Depending on killer you might be able to do some different things. ie nurse, trapper, hag, very mobile killers, etc.... but often times it's the best call on the situation. Especially if you have like 8 stacks of STBFL or something; if they go for that survivor you will DECIMATE them.
There are no gens anymore, so the gates and hooked survivors are their only 2 objectives, and some killers/builds can't do much about the gates.
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the killer does not have to do it, but can if they want to force an end to the game. but survivors 99'ing gates has been there for a long time and much longer than egc existed. one of the reasons 99'ing the gates was not to avoid the egc as it didn't exist but was done to prevent blood warden. so 99'ing is not any more or less a problem as it was before, actually LESS when the killer can open the door, then hook someone and block both exits with blood warden and then get the other survivors.
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I was being facetious but yeah.
Though I would add 99ing the gates on Dead Dawg Saloon can be risky because the gates are a little bit buggy on that map and some odd things happen there sometimes if you ever have to clutch it. The doors and a certain couple of spots inside the gate wonk out sometimes on that map.
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At minimum I think there should be gate regression perks, or add gate regression to other existing perks that have regression features on them.
Ideally, I'd love to see a new Killer whose Power includes manipulation of gates, hatches, generators, totems and hooks and make Survivors have to re-think their escape strategy. I came up with one actually, The Architect! It may seem over the top in some areas, or too weak in others, but it's a solid foundation for a Killer that, I think, can alter the all-too-routine playstyles that exist now. You're gonna 99 the gates? You're gonna use your little key for a hatch escape? You're gonna taunt and teabag on your way out? This Killer will make them think twice!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/213621/new-killer-the-entitys-architect
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There definitely should be some type of regression maybe it should regress but it should start maybe after 20 seconds? And not regress below 80% that way survivors can't just open the door with a single tap and give enough killers enough time to stop the survivors. The point of EGC isn't to give free kills right. The point of it is is to make survivors leave. But here's the thing survivors wont just leave if their team mate is on the hook thats why they 99. "Killers can open gates tho" but why would a killer walk away from a hooked or slugged survivor just to open a gate. Thats when survivors will rush to the hooks and get a free escape. A killer should never open the door youre literally helping the survivors win. Making it a perk would just be a band aid fix at best or a meme perk.
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I have one perk to say here: Blood Warden. down survivor, go open door, hook survivor, then go kill the others. EGC is not limiting the survivors or giving the killer free kills, but the killer is using the environment to their advantage just as survivors do. EGC is to force the game to close, I have been the victim of survivor antagonism once, two blendettes left I had hooked and sac'd the other two they opened the doors (both of them) then went and hid. kept moving to prevent crows. I'm there defending the gates, but they never came near the doors. hatch was between the doors (this was when egc didn't exist thus hatch couldn't be closed) they stayed in the game for 30 minutes till i said ######### it and disconnected because what was the point of keeping my 20K points when after 30 minutes they WOULDNT leave???
This happened a second time and when they didn't leave soon after both doors are confirmed closed i went searching and found them. one got hooked (first hook) and the other one disconnected when i downed them and it'd been their first hook too! I laughed because that triggered the sac of the other one! hehehehe they were a swf and called me names after the match I just said, I won... 3 dead, one fled without points who got the better of you? they shut up and left the lobby. it was hilarious when two red ranks can't leave a match against a rank 15 killer (the other two were 16 and 13 if memory serves)
This is WHY EGC was implemented, because survivors were just letting the game stagnate with doors open and it's not fair to do that.
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EGC goes two ways:
- Killer has NOED and kills the remaining Survivors or gets a 4K.
- Survivors can 99 both gates making an easy escape bodyblocking whoever was recently hooked with DS.
The entirety of EGC is unhealthy, Killer is at an extreme disadvantage unless they play NOED.
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Imo they should rework remember me to regress gates by using the tokens you have stacked up. 1 token per 50% of gate?
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dont leave the survivors with any counter play just let killers win everything;)
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I mean if the progress decayed slowly survivors would just open it right away, isn't that a good thing? If they "still have things to do" isn't that the point of the timer slowing down by 50% if someone is hooked/slugged? I feel like having both of these in play makes EGC a bit pointless, even in the aspect of just "ending the match." The Killer can't always go open the door, in fact it is almost never worth it to open the door yourself as killer, not because they can walk out and leave but because you have to position yourself in the last place you want to be.
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Adding automatic Gate Regression to Remember Me might be a neat way to go about it. Then use the spots where the lights come on as check points that the Regression can't go below. Seems like it'd be a good buff to a perk that's currently kinda bad and add some synergy between Remember Me and Blood Warden since then Remember Me would make doing the ridiculously easy counter of Blood Warden much harder to do.
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You don't know what you're talking about.
EGC was a huge buff to the killer and is almost entirely all good things for the killer. You weren't around when EGC wasn't part of the game. Before EGC there was a good chance for a survivor to escape when it was 1v1. Now the deck is stacked overwhelmingly in favor of the killer in the same situation. The only thing Survivors got out of the deal, was at least now the hatch would spawn even if nobody did a gen all game.
I think if people still have issues with EGC (can't for the life of me imagine why) why not create some perks that help with endgame killer builds. Killers have NoEd and Bloodwarden, maybe 2 more endgame specific perks would be good. Sacrifice your earlya nd mid ame for a powerful endgame. But it has to be a perk or something that is an opportunity cost for the killer.
Survivors don't need further baseline nerfs to it.
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