The real reason they think DS is fair
They haven't said anything about it, but I might have an idea why exactly DS stays unchanged. It's because it's just hard to use. I have 400 hours in the game and still can't consistently hit that skillcheck. And there is nothing more frustrating in the game than missing DS while the gates are open. So this perk is like a Nurse of survivor perks: it's strong, but will take a lot of time learning and failing miserably before you can get full value out of it. This is probably the reason behind the perk not being nerfed as well: the numbers show that survivors who run DS die with the same rate as those without it just because there are a lot of new players who miss that goddamned skillcheck.
This also shows that the perk is not really just an untitunneling perk, since you can easily be tunneled and if you miss that skillcheck you won't be saved from it. It's a skill-based perk that can be abused by highly skilled players, but it can't even be used in the basic way by those who are not skilled enough.
Understanding this fact can lead to a good way of changing it into a better perk, by making it a truly anti-tunneling perk. Add all those nerfs kiilers demand, like expiration on interaction with anything or anyone and expiration on hooking of another survivor, but also remove the skillcheck: make it auto-success or just "press action button" kind of perk. That way it will be fair and more accessible to all players who can't hit the skillcheck all the times. I think most players would agree on this buff-nerf kind of change.
Comments
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If the use of it was made easier alongside the caveat that certain objective related actions deactivated it, I think that would be totally fine and fair. Most Killers just assume every DS will land anyways, so making it easier to land won't really change anything for them.
I would know.
I killed someone.
With kindness.
<3
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Did this guy just compare the skill requirement of "playing Nurse" to hitting a DS skill check?
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People only say DS is overpowered because it's abused by extremely good players- y'know, the ones that can hit skill checks blindfolded. I'm personally okay with this change though, because it will help newer players while not impacting high level play at all.
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Did you really just say that ds isn't an anti-tunneling perk because if you miss the skill check the killer can punish you for it?
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"And there is nothing more frustrating in the game than missing DS while the gates are open."
I can think of a few things:
- After a game of playing "fair" (no tunnelling, minimal slugging and camping etc) knowing the guy who is downed has a free escape because they were recently unhooked and now have protection from you "tunneling" them (i.e. e.g. they have 1 minute to crawl to exit gate, or can just use the DS stun)
- Being efficient at killing to the point of cycling multiple players and then get hit by a DS at 59 seconds, despite not tunnelling
- Having someone do a generator in your face and/or jump into a locker with DS protection. That's cool, you can have all of the benefits of your "anti-tunnel" perk and not be touched by me, but you can still participate in the game by repairing generators or healing other members of the team
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No real point of having it anymore. High level players hit it 100% of the time and new players who already get tunnelled due to their bad looping skills miss it and die quicker
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http://www.mistersyms.com/tools/gitgud/
Do this for about 10 minutes and you'll never miss a skillcheck again except maybe against doctor
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I did it for longer than 10 minutes and still somehow miss them
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"So this perk is like a Nurse of survivor perks:"
I'm still laughing. Yeah, I get it I used to be a greenhorn too, back when DS didn't require getting hooked. But those two things are not even comparable.
Does anyone remember when they even considered making the skillcheck so huge you couldn't miss it? It was in a Dev Stream. Thankfully, someone put some smelling salts under their noses and woke them up from their fever-coma.
Don't run DS if you cannot hit skillchecks. Simple enough.
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Would that even make a difference if the skill check was bigger? If you struggle to hit it then you’re probably not good enough to abuse the perk and are more likely to actually need it as low rank players get tunnelled more. Whereas the people that can abuse it shouldn’t really miss it
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Yes, it is a very out of place comparison.
But you could at least add something to the rest of the conversation.
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Ow, well no worries, we all have things we're not so good at.
There are plenty of other perks you can use as survivor. Half of the time killers will just assume you have ds as long as their is a obsession in play so you really don't miss out so much
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If DS doesn't exist I would have uninstall the game. Is impossible to have fun against campers and tunnelers match after match.
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I guess you never actually missed DS skillcheck while the gates were open, so you don't understand...
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No I did not even unlock DS yet because I find it so annoying to play against (I primarily play Killer) I can't really bring myself to unlock and run it myself, knowing of the effect the poor design has on Killers. Not too mention I've seen plenty of survivor mains on twitch to manage to do pretty well WITHOUT this second chance perk.
And even if I was fully empathetic to your example, you still missed my point. You missing a DS skillcheck is your fault, my three examples were all situations caused by DS which the Killer really has no control over, and cannot play around.
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nah. Don't think so. The skill check is not an issue. DS is meant to be strong for the same reason BBQ is strong: bc it's behind a paywall. That's also the reason both perks are so rare in the Shrine. That seemed to be the practice with early licensed characters.
If they really want to turn DS into an anti-tunneling perk, just make it activate after being unhooked and last until another survivor is hooked instead of having a 60 seconds timer.
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"So this perk is like a Nurse of survivor perks:"
I guarantee people run into DS way WAY more then Nurse players.
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Very true, DS is pretty much guaranteed to be in the game beyond a certain rank, and even if it isn't, the threat of a DS is constant.
Meanwhile, Nurse doesn't appear too often in my experience
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Well, I think the skillcheck was more of a scary boogeyman to keep newer players away from it. I think the more realistic reason DS remains as it is is because it's not meant to be an anti-tunnel perk. It does too broad of a job to be anti-tunneling, and the devs confirmed it on one of their streams anyways. If you remember original decisive strike, it had no stipulations for use whatsoever; it was a second chance perk, like unbreakable and borrowed time and soul guard etc. Obviously, that was too strong of an effect, even for a second chance, so they added the hook stipulations to "discourage" tunneling. However, this is just a side-effect that can easily be abused, by both sides. Survivors can hide in lockers to grant them essential immunity, while killers can slug and go take a vacation. The main purpose of DS remains as a second chance perk.
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I can't see DS as a skill based perk. Unlike regular skill checks, you know exactly when it's going to happen, still have the notification, and have nothing else to focus on in that moment. This isn't healing someone or working on a gen where you're scanning around for the killer in addition to skill checks. The second that killer picks you up is a huge "OK SKILL CHECK IS COMING BE READY FOR IT!" If you can't hit the DS with that much warning, you are going to have a lot more problems than being tunneled.
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Yes there are killer mains and survivor mains fighting, If you really want it balanced then just make it where it deactivates after you hook a survivor....Simple
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are you seriusly trying to say that ds is fair cause you personaly cant hit a skill check ?
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DS just annoys me when a 4 man swf all take it with unbreakable and all put on the same cosmetics on the same character.
Sure you can still track who is who somewhat but it's MUCH harder to do so and they know it, that is why they do it.
I also find it annoying when like, they use it to be literally invincible for 60 seconds, with no repercussions. So as far as I am concerned fine, but if you bring DS you don't get to complain about being slugged or tunnelled at all. If you blow your DS early and then run into a wall- you bet I am going to punish that HARD.
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I would legit have no problem if Unnerving Presence effected the skill check again, like it used to.
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I'm sorry dude.
If you can't hit a DS skill check after 400 hours that's just bad.
The difficulty of such a simple mechanic isn't even remotely close to how hard it is to get good at Nurse. And I should also point out that Nurse got nerfed and she was already hard to use, and they made it even harder.
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Mate i suck at skillchecks and i still hit ds/overcharge before i even realize its popped up.
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Cannot believe so many guys takes this thread seriously.
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I mean, with this kind of logic, I should be a master at playing Nurse because I can hit the DS skillcheck everytime. I mean, it's not THAT hard when you're expecting it.
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The skill check is the issue?
I have 193 hours into this game, and I can say I've never missed a Decisive Strike check.
EVER.
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After getting used to old ruin I can't say DS skillcheck is that hard.....
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The reason it's not nerfed yet is that Almo didn't get a good year's worth of punishment from DS for "tUnNeLiNg". Still have the scars around my neck.
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Do you have a 144 Hz monitor?
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I agree with calling it the Nurse of perks
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I don't know. I never pay attention to that sort of thing. Is this some internet meme I'm unaware of?
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Honestly Nurse is so easy. Like if you can hit the DS skill check you can play nurse people
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