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Closing the gap between solo queue & SWF
What is the best way you think the devs can go about this?
Comments
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it's hard to do so, but adding more aura read perks like Aftercare would help close the gap. Feels like with Aftercare (with all 3 people linked to me) it's as if solo queue has the coordination of SWF
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In game coordination. There has been a few suggestions in the forums to provide survivor emotes with limited communication like "need healing", "go rescue", "stay here", "help". Another suggestion would be giving the benefits of Kindred when you queue solo.
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I’ve always been in favor of the kindred base-kit suggestion. I also agree with the emote idea as well.
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Split the Ques up. There is no way to mix and match them in the same game and close the gap. Any power or Perk added to offset SWF 5th Perk (Comms) will always hit the Solo players far harder. Moreover, 3-Person SWF will always value their friends over the "Red Shirt" thrown in with them. No matter how much animations and basic communication is added to the game, it will never match the power of:
"I've got eyes on him, he is moving towards Mother's Dwelling and setting a trap outside the window."
"I'm looping the Oni away from the Generator in the Hatch, it is almost done... and there is a lit Totem in there."
You get the idea. SWF CAN provide each other with more information than any combination of Perks in the game. The only way to bring Solo up is by breaking them into two Ques and balancing SWF with additional in game objectives and perhaps an extra Perk unlocked for the Killer that faces them. Then the Perks which were strangling Solos in an effort to balance SWF could be revisited. In short, Perks are a terrible way to try and balance these two different groups.
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by implementing an ingame VOIP system for survivors and then balancing the game around this feature. As i see it now, 3rd party VOIP programs (discord etc.) are the only issue with balance.
Also OoO should be disabled if anyone in the team is in a party.
Or apply blindness to SWF
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Oh jesus no. I'm having LoL nightmares. One of the things that makes this game more palatable is the limited communication aspect, the post-match chat is already toxic enough. Also, console players are at a disadvantage typing in a chat box.
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Add optional in-game comms. Add a communication wheel that can be used instead of comms. Add loadout icons next to other survivor's portraits. Totem counter.
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A wheel of communication sounds pretty good.
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Closest you can get that I consider to have even a miniscule non-zero probability of even being considered is either voice chat or some non-verbal comms system (like a comm wheel and "pings"). Even that isn't perfect and is by no means immune to abuse, I honestly feel the latter would be the better option even if it's not perfect.
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easy, nerfed kindred as basekit
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I definitely agree with this 💯
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Yup, perks should not be the solution to solving issues.
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Wouldn't it be cool if the swf filter was removed and the solos would have a voice chat option, for example. Solos would get into a chat to form a with swf but It would only last that game, so next game you get new survivors. Still be strong but it's a random swf with random perks.
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Impose limits on SWF. For example, any size SWF can only have 1 instance of a perk. Therefore only 1 DS, 1 UB, 1 Dead Hard, etc. If you solo this wouldn't effect you. What this does is encourage team builds over everyone just running the best meta.
IMO you guys should try playing in a DBD tournament or at least watching one. If you did you'd learn that at the highest level, SWF is completely overpowered. Bringing solo survivors up to that point is literal insanity and would kill the game. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to bring down SWF to solos wherever possible. A top tier SWF with no perks will still steamroll nearly anything you can throw at them. Nurse and Spirit are the only ones that might stand a chance, and only if they run very oppressive builds (and no I don't mean Undying/Ruin because that is worthless against a SWF that just does all the totems in the first minute of the game). Yet in the normal game, these teams will actually be running full meta, which makes them even more overpowered. Yes, imposing a perk limit won't be the end all fix, but those are the kinds of things that need to be done to balance the game.
Anyone that says "buff solo to SWF then balance the game" is delusional. You won't be able to balance the game at this point, survivors already have the advantage, however slight, and in a SWF it's much bigger. You're saying you want a totally busted game? You want a game where every game is like the hardest SWF you ever played? You're ######### crazy.
Nerf SWF, but do it in a way that doesn't make people hate the game. Besides the 1 instance of a perk rule, maybe also you can't be the same survivor. Maybe also your offerings become more limited (eg. no map offerings). Maybe your luck greatly decreases in a SWF (or rather the chance of finding good items is decreased so no more keys or maps). Stuff that doesn't directly impact gameplay (so nothing like less time on a hook) just stuff that evens the playing field a bit.
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Limiting SWF does sound like a good idea.
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So no one can play with their friends with this suggestion? Before SWF friends would constantly lobby dodge until they all got in the same lobby. Imagine what returning to that would do to queue times now for survivors.
From their history of changes the devs seem determined not to split the playerbase, hurt queue times, or "punish" anyone. Also a killer paying attention will know "all I have to do is eat one DS and then tunnel them all" or how about "well he got up on his own, the UB is gone slug everyone at 5 gens" or two brand new players with only Dwight with semi-decent perks cannot even queue together?
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I mean when you can wafflestomp 95% of killers in a 4 man with no perks, I wouldn't considering a limit of perks instances "punishing someone". All it means is you can't all run DS, which yes means all the killer has to do is realize you are a SWF and then they know to eat a DS and be done. But they have no way to REALLY know that so the smart killer would continue to play around DS anyway in the off chance one or more of you are solo. Maybe don't make it completely obvious you are a SWF?
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I can see that working for pc, but not much for console.
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Since swf has no need for "Aura reading" and always know where the killer is and talking to each other, I would buff a Killer who faces 4 groupmates. Something like a fifth perk to read Auras in these Situations. If they always know where the killer is, the Killer should be in the same position and know more where the swf guys are. For 'free'.
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Option for in game voice chat, and option to mute people you don't wanna talk to/listen to.
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unless its adding an ingame voice chat (more toxicity yay) its impossible to close that gap. OoO can be a meme/suicide perk unless its put in some off meta build. But in SWF group its a strong perk that allows all survivor to know what you are doing because of communication.
Post edited by Yatol on3 -
I think its been mentioned before, but adding ANYTHING EXCEPT Voicechat or a message system will just move the gap, but not close it.
Any HUD addition or the greatest buff possible ( free aura reading) will just let cwf's skip the info gathering, and proceed to relaying strategy with improved cerrainity.
Chat wheel/menu or voicechat. Anything else will just be used even better by people with comms.
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And how do you make them? Because the way i know the game, half the survivor will just answer "no".
Text chat doesnt make your teammates more reliable in any way.
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What I'd want is a better matchmaking that matches me more often with players about my knowledge/ability level. I think solo games are pretty fine with good teammates, there are just too many survivors in ranks they shouldn't reach.
I wouldn't want voice comms. It'd ruin the solo experience for me. There's nothing as rewarding as awesome cooperation without voice comms. And without comms, I can at least pretend that I'm playing with friendly and intelligent teammates who usually play extremely well and just had a couple of blackouts in the last minutes.
Every time I see someone going into second phase on first hook because someone keeps running the killer around the hook, I always imagine how if I could tell that person: "Did you see there's a survivor hooked where you're running loops?" that person would reply: "Oops, sorry I was a bit distracted and didn't notice there was someone hooked. I'll take a hit and use the speed boost to get to another area where I can run the killer so that someone can make a save. Thanks for pointing out!"
If I was actually able to communicate, the reply would probably rather be "f--- o--" and all my illusion would be gone.
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I think the new UI is supposed to lessen the gap between both playstyles, but the only way to completely close it would be to add in-game comms, and we all know how well that went in F13.
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Just me personally, I don't want them to raise up solo q. I don't want or need my ui filled with info I didn't learn/earn myself. Swf is boring and easy, not what I want my solo experience to become.
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Maybe just add kindred as a passive add-on for them there not much of a gap I play SWF pretty often its more or less a dice roll there not a steady supply of info. That and the survivor emotes would bring them up to speed and help a lot. Nothing else besides that should be don't lower rank solo just suck tho bc nobody does gens at the very least they should have kindred at higher levels its much easier at solo queue but maybe they should have kindred too.
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I've always wanted a perk that lets survivors see the auras that you see, if you can see their aura.
For example if you have Dark Sense and Bond, any survivor that you see with bond will also see the killer's aura via Dark Sense.
This would obviously just be a perk bandaid but I think it would be cool.
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Survivors see all other survivor's auras.
Whenever a survivor is within line of sight of the killer or in a chase, the killer's aura is revealed to other survivors.
There, gap closed. Broken af.
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logged into to post after reading a genuine concern.
the only way they are going to bridge the gap between SWF and solo atm is "free" perks while solo, as in if you are solo you get Kindred, a weaker Bond perk, a weaker version of left behind (half the hatch finding distance) and a weaker slippery meat that basically tries to escape once free of charge just before going to phase 2 of the hook with a 15% success rate not stackable or buffable by other sources.
then just disable them as more pople join a party so if you are a 2man party the slippery meat and left behind are disabled and if you are a 4man party ALL of them are disabled for you.
the reason i say these 4 perks in particular is that most solo players need to run defensive perks just to stand a chance at not being removed or farmed by the other survivors in that game and without the "hive mind" voice comms most SWF come with they lack most information.
by making these 4 perks baseline while solo the solo survivor stands a better chance at enjoying the game, after all how many games have YOU had where you are playing solo, get hooked after a 2minute chase and see 3 players coming directly towards you with a stealthed killer? with the baseline kindred this would put off those greedy little parasite survivors by showing them your not alone while also making your solo sacrifice play feel rewarding.
these 4 perks also dont tend to help SWF players anyways so end up not being used at all by them so only fitting that those same perks would be more useful to a solo player than a party.
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I don't think much needs to be done and it shouldn't be balanced around a top SWF.
Communications does not help randoms. Good survivors that are friends and are coordinated is what makes them better. Most SWF are just average and goofing off and usually a piece of cake for the killer.
A russian kid cursing and screaming in my ear to save him will ruin the immersion of the game and quite frankly cause me to throw the game out of frustration. Been there, done that. I think the devs know that the lack of voice comms is one thing that makes the game appealing. There's plenty of aura perks but people either refuse to use them or feel like they need the better perks to stand a chance against a killrush killer.
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Add indicators like the current hook icon on survivor portrait. So add more of these. E.g. if a survivor is on a gen/totem, put a gen/totem icon near their portrait. If a survivor is being chased, show this. (You can only currently tell if the survivor being chased is the obsession).
Add kindred to basekit, maybe nerf it slightly to remove killer aura. Solo survivors can now coordinate saves much better.
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One of the best ideas I've ever read on balancing. Buffing solo up to swf will 100% crush the available pool of killers and you'll just have 30 minutes or longer wait times to get into a game as survivor. Hardly any killers will want to remain if all survivors run like swf. And those killers will most likely be OP Nurse mains. Additionally I'd suggest decreasing repair time for swf for each survivor in the group. swf are known for knocking gens out with or without ruin/undying due to the high degree of coordination.
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All
This!
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Anything that directly affects gameplay is a no no. Slowing down repair times isn't necessarily fair since you are now changing the dynamic of the game. People would start to solo que and try to find each other in a lobby we want to avoid that as much as possible.
Simple stuff like putting limits how much a SWF can influence the starting position of a match is okay though. Stuff like preventing them from using map offerings is a good example. The game itself is unchanged, just now if you SWF you won't be able to control things as much as you can now.
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A no SWF weekend to get even more data to see if there are more T-Bags amongst SWF players than solo que players.
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