http://dbd.game/killswitch
I feel genuinely sorry for Killers that are so fearful or tilted by DS.
Seriously, I feel bad for you.
Because I don’t get it.
I’ve not let DS bother me for a long, long time.
I’m a Clown main, that balks at meta perks, often sticking with builds centred around stacking Coulrophobia & Mangled. Exactly the kind of killer you would expect would struggle a great deal.
But i hold my own at red ranks, usually getting 3k or 4k, with 4 man escapes being a rarity.
I’ve been around a while too. I’m not a true genuine DBD veteran that’s been around since the beginning, but I’ve been around for a significant part of the games life cycle.
Sure I post a lot of angry rants on here, but that’s me just being a pathetic drama queen at times.
I’m not trying to turn this into a peen measuring contest. I’m just providing some context before outlaying how I’ve stopped letting DS (and unbreakable) be such the over embellished problem everybody else makes it out to be.
They can only be used once.
Let me say that one more time.
They can only be used once.
These perks only have great power late game or endgame, but Killers, you fools. You ALLOW survivors to have and use these perks at those crucial times of the match where it’s most crippling and frustrating. Yes, I’m blaming YOU. It’s YOUR fault if you’re being hit by DS (or unbreakable) at endgame.
Here’s my general match approach, leaving myself wiggle room for adaptation and improvisation.
I don’t outright tunnel or outright camp, but if an unhook has occurred in my face, then I WILL smack whoever was just unhooked. If they have BT, fine, I don’t care. Now they have to run somewhere and waste a little bit of time mending. No BT? Well I’m picking them up fully expecting DS because I WANT them to use it. If I’m stunned, fine, I then let them run off and IMMEDIATELY refocus on spreading pressure elsewhere. No DS? Too bad, oops, they’re going back on the hook. That survivor is now a greatly reduced threat for the remainder of the match, so I might even give them a bit of slack later on.
If at any time I spot someone that I know was recent unhooked, again, I follow the above process. I want to test each and every survivor for DS as early as possible, and eliminate it as fast as possible. The survivors are incredibly screwed after they’ve all had their DS eliminated, not so much because the perk itself is gone, but because it GREATLY LIMITS the kind of plays the survivors can then make to assist each other.
“You can’t just eat DS. That’s not a counter!” But I do, and it works almost all the time.
“But you lose so much pressure.” Except in rare instances, I ignore who just stunned me and I immediately return to spreading pressure to the other survivors to the best of my ability. I don’t want to give them TOO MUCH free time.
”But then it was a wasted chase.” I just got rid of a (overrated) tool from the survivors kit before/around mid game. I don’t feel like I wasted my time at all.
For those that keep throwing counter arguments based on theory, I simply urge you to just try this approach.
If it doesn’t work for you after a dozen games, it doesn’t work for you, and you can rant “can’t can’t can’t” all you like.
Comments
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Well said! I agree with you 100%. I have no problems with DS/UB (I main Pig and Legion).
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You've said in an earlier thread that you use coulro and sloppy on slugging builds. DS isn't very impactful in those builds. DS is impactful on killers that don't mass slug.
Do you really expect me to believe you're getting constant 3-4k 12 hook games while eating every DS without meta perks as Clown? Really?
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You do realise you don't have to eat any DS at all? If you are so inclined to follow that unhooked survivor but afraid of almighty DS, just drop him and go for another one.
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To be fair, you can slug on every Killer. Slugging is a very powerful tool to apply pressure.
And well, yesterday I went against a Spirit who ate 3 DS and still got a 4K with 11 Hooks and only 2 Gens done. But DS is too stronk.
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Yet another rant about DS. Yes i got it you have +5k hours, you need a challenge and DS gives you the potential 4th hook state you want the survs to have so you can get your shot of adrenaline. Some of us just want a fair match and think that there should be another less frustating way to disincentivize killers to tunnel and at the same time not force survivors to pick this perk (at least one of them per match).
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And let a surv rescue him or him getting UB therefore missing a hook state either way.
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“I’ve not let DS bother me for a long, long time.”
Me either... I’ve actually never let it bother me
Could we possibly be the only two who are entirely unscathed by the dreaded DS 🤔
DS shmee-S
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DS is a problem for casual killers who want to just chase who they can chase, so they get 4 DS in their face and a 4 man escape. So yes, you should feel sorry for them, because there is no place for casual killers in this game. You have to be competitive or you'll suffer.
However, I disagree with your endgame argument. DS in the endgame is just bullshit if you didn't manage to get rid of it earlier. Survivor gets unhooked, you hit him, if he has BT and he knows where other survivors are opening an exit gate - he's out, not much you can do.
Locker DS is also bullshit. Not because it is strong but because it is a lose-lose situation if you can't afford eating DS in that moment.
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Jesus Christ, so I am not the only killer player who follows that reasoning and finds no threat whatsoever in a DS and eating it. Where have you been all this time, dude?
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I've seen more people crying about DS on this forum in the past two days than since I started playing, I've only been around a few months (playing killer much less than that) and for me this is common sense, all these crutch perks survivors run only become strongly effectual in late to end game.
I'm not a sweaty, everyone must die kinda killer either, I just go with whats happening, I don't see why DS is seen as such an issue, gen grab and locker DS maybe, but imo its easy not to give them that opportunity!
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Here, have a look
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To be fair,it was a Spirit.
And we don't know how well your teammates played
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I play mostly Solo Q and there's so many matches that are just miserable because no one is obsession.
I see a lot of killers complaining about DS like all they go against are coordinated 4men SWF all with DS + UNB. Yes it is frustrating when it is the case, but that is not 100% of matches, not even 80%.
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She was a really good Spirit-player, so I guess it was not winnable from us, even if we all 4 would have been in an SWF.
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It's not about being bothered, it's just pussy behaviour to go on a gen after you got unhooked because you have every tool available in order to recover from such a coward move and major f-up. Adding to this the fact that ds+ub users will get mad if you work around those variables and if you eat their ds calling you tunneler even tho they were chilling on a gen.
Those 5 seconds when the killer was playing fair and the survivors were abusing their unvulnerable position are clearly not healthy for the game. The build alone is not an issue, but it should work only if the survivor is really vulnerable and being the "object of obsession" of the killer. If you touch a gen, heal up or save someone else it means you weren't in a vulnerable position thus you shouldn't have those "protections"
Seriously it's not about being bothered is a matter of principle, if you f-up and its ONLY YOUR FAULT you should be punished.
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So, you're victim blaming in a videogame whilst encouraging killers to play like pricks and ruin the experience of survivors that aren't running the second chance meta so they switch to the second chance meta and perpetuate the cycle of toxicity?
Whilst Ignoring the fact that a team of small pp build is the freest escape of anyone's life and that DS is the lynchpin of that build and creates the in-your-face toxicity, such as... Literally anything survivors can do to abuse DS?
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Unpopular opinion: In the so called small pp-Build (still a dumb name, people should run what they like), not DS but Unbreakable is the problematic Perk. Worse design than DS IMO, most of the time not being used but when used, can be a complete game-changer.
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I run it occasionally. It's for compensation. Nothing else. I will forever call it the small pp build just to piss off the people that think they need it. If someone wants to run it, they should at least acknowledge how stupid it is, and the easiest way to do so is call it by a dumb but kinda accurate (if a little sexist) name.
And Unbreakable can't be used for a free escape or free gen time. It's poorly designed, but... locker DS, unhook with DS, DS on gens, and of course the fact that it is the core of the second chance meta and the other perks kind of don't have much synergy without DS.
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No one at is recommending toxic killer behaviour! But being scared of DS because you let it become an issue which would inevitably be your tipping point between winning or losing, is pathetic, if you know survivors are gonna have DS (in all my lobbies recently at least one has), then plan ahead and make sure to fix that
That isnt toxic or playing like a prick
Plus it's just common sense
A one time perk
If you deny them further access to it they have basically wasted a perk slot!
Same with unbreakable, which is arguably weaker!
Plus I'm more likely to give survivors who dont run second chance perks the hatch or some slack if their team mate tries to farm them!
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So hardcore tunnel people off the hook and just say whoopsie daisy if they don't have Endurance status form BT, or DS? Sounds pretty toxic to me.
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There's no hardcore tunneling involved, that's when you chase a survivor until they are dead no matter what
If they get farmed right in front of you, the no brain play is to smack them down and take the chase (I usually dont commit to a whole chase unless I know I'll get them), I'm not gonna actively chase the unhooked person if I wasn't there!
But if I am, if they dont have bt active then they get knocked down, no ds, hooked, hooked again, then ill give them another chance later if their team mates don't let them die. And if their team mates let them die on hook then I'm not giving them second chances at all.
Simple
It's not toxic
Just efficient, and still fair
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Agree 100%
I have almost never seen a DS that made me lose a game,Unbreakable however made me lose quite a lot of wins and kills.
Don't know why perks like Deliverance and Second Wind require you to work for it but Unbreakable doesn't
Absolutely annoying,just like Dead Hard for distance.
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Hardcore tunneling is a really bad solution. Dont get me wrong most of the time i dont care about DS bc average teams are no challenge and i know getting the ds early out of the way against cocky survivors screws them over.
But technically you said ds is weak against tunneling. I think most of the experienced killer have no problem with ds aginst tunneling, but the other ways to abuse it. And imo ds doesnt make it easy for survivor. It just makes even matches easier for survivor. So when you win most of the time anyway you feel nothing.
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Unbreakable can help you resetting your whole team after all of them made super big missplays.
There were also times where i had to force people out of the exit gates to prevent further saves but while doing so the person on the ground got up and escaped through the other exit gate/hatch.
It definetely leads to free gen time because noone has to save you after getting slugged and you recover faster which makes it easier to pick you uo from the ground
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The only way to get DS out of the way early is to tunnel someone down and pick them up, or hope they're terrible at the game and will try to force it out (which is something that needs to be removed form the game). That is what the OP is advocating, unless everyone just wants to ignore good players with DS that will wait til there's a snowball starting to go for formerly-risky plays.
So there's your choices:
1) Accept farms and get cucked because someone equipped a perk, but perhaps win later on. Definitely not fair for anyone involved, that survivor didn't ask to be farmed. Doesn't help with the real problem, either.
2) Tunnel everyone down to eat DS as early as possible and just say whoops as you give them a miserable time, especially if they don't have the perk. That is the only proper way to eat DS early. Every other way relies on survivors being bad and also is still you teaming up with a survivor to BM another survivor. Sucks, but it's always going to be true that it takes two to farm.
3) Just play completely normally.
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DS is the root cause of half my Unbreakables. The other half are "amazing" game design that I don't really blame survivors for hating because slugging is just the worst thing to deal with.
Like, seriously, if I've got 2-3 people on the ground, I'm really hoping they have an UB. Mass slugging sucks. I wish it wasn't the "nicest" way to win. Especially since snowballing and mass slugging aren't necessarily the same and I often don't end up being screwed by UB nearly as much as DS, but I guess that's a playstyle difference.
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I feel genuinely sorry for Survivors that get titled or are fearful of getting tunneled.
Logic isn't really working on this one.
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I honestly also don't have a problem with DS and i don't even bait it out. I just slug who i expect to have DS and that's that.
If anything DS has teached me how usefull slugging is. The combo is imo extremly overrated.
It's only annoying when survivors who have it use it in your face. But once you realise they are not working on objectives while they do that and you can just ignore them even they are not that problomatic.
That said it is no doubt the most powerfull thing survivors have and a small nerf wouldn't be that bad of an idea. It's just not this unstoppable omega combo a lot of people tell it is imo
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Fun fact, i do use choice number 3, its common sense not to unhook right in front of the killer without BT, unless they are face camping without an insta down!
If i see an opportunity to force someones DS i take it, and its not really making them miserable, plus, half the people who use DS do it to troll, all the flashlight clicking and locker jumping, not like they are trying to make the killers day any brighter
(Also i play more survivor than killer! I have absolutely no issues when playing like this, I dont rely on second chance perks, I never even put them on, barring one time my friends forced me to. Especially since, if a killer takes mine or OPs attitude of if you dont use them ill prolly cut you some slack, then life gets better for that survivor that was previously "miserable")
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Ive never understood your "it can only be used once" argument.
Old MoM could only be used once, yet it was the most overpowered perk to be introduced into this game.
Assuming you get hit by DS, you lose a hook and you need to waste even more time downing them again, that is 30 seconds, at a bare minimum, wasted. Even more if your survivor knows how to loop.
Even if that is only a one time use, that is a GAMECHANGING effect especially against good players. You are so strained on time that having a chase a bit too long can almost make you lose. Any group of people, solo or not, who are good on gens will beat you if you eat more than 2 DS and that's a fact. That's a minute of wasted time and 2 hooks taken away from you.
We are not gonna balance around boosted pub potatoes when the MM is as broken as it is now. We look at games where the survivors are actually good and look at how strong of an effect DS has in them games and we want to balance the game accordingly/
Along with this, all of your counter arguments have some flaws:
“You can’t just eat DS. That’s not a counter!” But I do, and it works almost all the time.
Not a counter and it doesn't work, you just wasted a chase and a potential hook. The people you do this against are potatoes, and if you did it against people who know how to get on gens, you would lose.
You also can't justify an entire argument on your own experience as everyone has different pub matches. Some people are unlucky and get super good people often, others get babys often. Your experience may as well be randomised, as most other people who try the "eat DS early strat" in pubs, including me, fail because it really isn't viable against good people. Not saying I get good people all the time, but when I do eating DS early isn't viable.
I know you acknowledged that it doesn't work for some people, but you should acknowledge the cases where eating DS doesn't work no matter who is playing the killer. EG, against good players.
”But then it was a wasted chase.” I just got rid of a (overrated) tool from the survivors kit before/around mid game. I don’t feel like I wasted my time at all.
“But you lose so much pressure.” Except in rare instances, I ignore who just stunned me and I immediately return to spreading pressure to the other survivors to the best of my ability. I don’t want to give them TOO MUCH free time.
You did waste a chase, which can be gamechanging depending on how it was used. If it was used in an aggressive way like hook bombing, you lost a lot of pressure. If it was used by someone getting farmed without BT then you only had a few seconds of chase, so it's not really bad as you have another survivor to chase.
The issue is with actual good people, they will use it to hook bomb or get generator progress, which - if you pick up at that time - is a lot of wasted time.
More importantly, you shouldn't be getting hit by the perk in the first place as you ain't tunnelling. I don't want no "the devs haven't said it's an anti tunnel perk!".
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that can happen just about every match and its achieved by getting good 👍️
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Shockingly, people can be skilled at the game, suprising isn't it!
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Big surprise a person who slugs people over and over making the game very boring for both sides isnt impacted by ds. I never get hit by ds as oni because of slug oni but i dont leave people on the floor all game. Not to mention they can just get back up with ub anyway and soulguard making your strat useless.
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He already took a hook state recently, what are you talking about?
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Where did you get slugging from? Unless your replying to someone, OP simply said they don't care about getting hit by DS because they always funnel it out early game!
(I meant funnel, not tunnel)
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And what happens when you "force" someone's DS only for them to not have it and just be a victim that just got farmed?
Can you not see the behaviour that DS creates? The toxicity? The miserable trials? It is supposed to exist to PREVENT toxicity and yet it is the root cause of some of the most BS things in DbD, either directly or indirectly.
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When I play killer (and I'm a darn casual as killer, survivor is more my thing) I don't care about DS. If you jump into a locker in front of me, I know what's up and you are getting yanked out of there. I'm not gonna chase unless I absolutely have no clue where anyone else is, but hey, survivor brought the perk, might as well give him some use of it.
My boyfriend plays killer at rank 1 and is a lot better than me and will often pick up a recently unhooked survivor and say "Well, let's see if you have DS". Kind of sucks for the survivor if they don't, but let's be real, there are plenty of survivors who all but throw themselves at the killer after an unhook without any actual tunneling required.
ALSO, another thing about DS in end game is that there lies half the usage of the perk... I have friends who basically equip DS as an end game perk. Most killers shamelessly tunnel and camp once the exit gates are powered, and do I blame them? Nope! What else are they gonna do? Let people rescue and escape for free? But survivors have the right to use every possible tool that they have to escape, and DS is one of the few counters to a killer who is desperately focusing on you to make sure you don't make it out alive. I just don't feel bad for killers who perhaps cheesed someone they hadn't caught all game with NOED, and then couldn't successfully finish off the kill because the survivor properly used (not even abused!) a perk that they spent an entire perk slot on.
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I hook them, it'll be their second hook if they are lucky, otherwise, feels bad I guess, but you play to survive or get killed, team mates shouldn't farm anyway, its not like I face camp, I got pressure to spread (always) and traps to place (usually)!
Anyway, stop acting like survivors are these innocent victims who don't deserve to get hooked unless they are toxic. The point of playing killer is to be merciless and kill everyone, I'm a lot nicer than I need to be!
We wouldn't have a toxic atmosphere if 99% of survivors didn't automatically make themselves the victim and verbally abuse the killer for using certain perks or killers or doing thing they weren't then going out the way to teabag and click their flashlights and locker jump and use perks like DS to troll!
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Saw in another post the way he plays clown is normally by slugging everyone which then its not very surprising he doesnt get hit by ds. But it does make the trial the most boring thing ever. Either way i like how the answer to ds is to actually tunnel to remove ds from play as early as possible. And most of the times when i do ds a true tunneler they just come back after me since i have no answer now. But i can ds hit a killer after they have hooked 2 other survivors when they grab me off a gen! Fairplay yay!
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Stop victimising yourself. There's shite in DbD that's just plain awful to deal with, and the advice of the OP, and you, is to use one version of BS to justify another.
DS exists to stop tunneling. You are justifying tunneling to get rid of DS. Can you not see a problem here?
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The answer to DS isn't to purposely tunnel it out, if the op is there, damn well take it or you are just a fool of a killer, survivors farming other survivors is the stupidest ######### anyway, wait till ive had a chance to step away before unhooking, otherwise ill get the smackdown and then get a hit off on the person who unhooked as well, even better if they are injured, ill pick the unhooker up first. But if i have an op to remove DS (and im not snowballing) then I'll take it.
On slugging, yeah thats boring and I dont have anything to say about that thats really relevant to this
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In no way am i victimising myself, lmao, just pointing out the toxic atmosphere is created by survivors
I never said tunnel them, maybe actually think before you put words in peoples mouth
yeah, and i wouldnt be suprised if you were one of the teabagging flashlight clickers who think they are better than everyone else
also, i play more survivor than killer
I dont click my flashlight, i dont teabag, i dont run crutch perks, i dont locker jump and i dont bully the killer
its not difficult, survivors just see strength in numbers and act as toxic as they ######### want, but try and smack down killers for even looking at doing something toxic
If someone is farmed in front of you and you knock them down, that is not tunneling, that is not toxic, taht is doing my job
please, grow up, for your sake as well as others
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You are pretending that all toxicity from the game is from survivors. You are accusing me of being exactly the kind of person DS protects. And you are telling me to grow up?
I am simply pointing out that DS is a highly abusable perk that, thanks to such, is encouraging killers to tunnel people off the hook to eat the DS if it's there (which encourages people who don't have DS to equip it), which is exactly the behaviour the perk is supposed to discourage. You are going on and on about toxic survivors to justify this form of tunneling, thus painting yourself as the victim.
But of courses its easier to smear your opponents and continue to tunnel people off the hook than it is to admit that maybe DS isn't a great perk to have in the game and that it really should be nerfed so that it only does what it's supposed to. Even though you claim to be someone who doesn't use or abuse it which makes this whole argument of yours very difficult to understand.
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Not all of it, just 99% of it!
yes killers are bad as well but their behaviour stems from that of the opposed majority!
I never disagreed that its highly abusable, again, no tunnelling involved, please actually read.
I'm making a separate point, and in no way am trying to paint myself as a victim, because I'm not, im not trying to justify tunnelling, its boring anyway.
I dont tunnel off hook, i neevr said DS was balanced or should stay in its current state, putting words in my mouth again, but that the fear of it is irrational when there is a way to avoid that which i s n t tunneling, stressing the isnt because apparently you cant read
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I never slug and statistically virtually never get hit with ds. How? If I do return to the hook, its to get the unhooker, not the unhooked, because i play both sides and I know how it feels bad to get screwed like that and how much I feel that killers that are so sorry that they need to come tunnel off the hook are just bad at the game. Its not a fair move, its a desperate play. Sure if I get mega gen rushed its gonna be hard and I might lose but so what, its not the olympics.
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The only thing people can actually complain about DS is how it works when the gates are powered and how people use it to do gens off hook instead of recovering.
The only time DS should affect you is during EGC, if they go into a locker just grab them so they don't have it later unless they are last hook, and when it is combined with unbreakable.
IMO all they have to do to balance DS is disable it when you work on a gen so it is more of a recovery/antitunnel perk then a safety net for doing gens right off hook. The problem with DS lies in how it is used for safe gen progress (the main issue of UB+DS) not how it interacts with the killer because really all you have to do is go after someone else, just get good at finding people.
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And the circle continues...
People equip DS in response to tunnelling. Killers change game play to counter it. Survivors add more perks to counter. Killers add new strategy, survivors counter, etc etc
I have just under 500 hours, mostly as survivor... have never ran DS (only used the perk in adept Laurie), and close to 80% of my matches I can understand why people run DS and UB. If tunnelling and slugging is a viable strategy, decisive strike and unbreakable are simply the counter.
Don't like the solution? Don't introduce the problem.
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In this video, Scott explains why D-Strike is so strong.
The reason why I find Ds so annoying, is because I get hit with it when I don't tunnel, and I feel like that's the reason many other killers find it annoying aw well.
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He could be fighting against some potato survivors.
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I do regularly slug, except those I want to eat DS from. It’s how I get rid of BOTH DS & Unbreakable early.
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