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DbD is not unbalanced or unfair
It's just a brutally honest game. If you fail, you get punished - simple as that.
Players need to stop relying on the mercy or lack of skill of the opposite side to be successful at the game.
If you constantly get downed and killed in a matter of seconds then maybe it's time to get good!?
If you constantly get looped and gen rushed without getting any hooks then maybe it's time to get good!?
These two things can't go hand in hand, it's either one or another and the fact that both situations seem to happen "all the time" just proves that it's result of the players lack of skill rather than the games balance.
I just had to point it out because I'm getting really tired of all the excuses both sides constantly come up, such as "basement abuser, 3 gen strat abuser, DS abuser, flashlight abuser, pallet abuser, camper, tunneler, slugged,...".
Like what the hell? Just learn to play and stop crying ffs.
Comments
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Nope not true if I die as survivor it’s because the killer camped and tunneled.
If I lose as killer it’s because survivors are op, game balance issue!! Nerf survivors!
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DBD is an asymmetric game, which is, by definition, unfair and unbalanced as it is a team of four survivors versus one killer.
There are many unbalanced features to this game beyond that, you brought them up in your post. Just because you don't think it's unbalanced doesn't make it true.
Since all the map tiles are procedurally generated, there are permutations that are extremely unbalanced for either side. Some maps will spawn giant dead zones and some maps will spawn the strongest tiles in the game connected to one another.
There's a plethora of imbalance in every single one of the game's features, from addons to perks to killer powers to maps to offerings. On top of this the game suffers from buggyness, hit registration issues, and dedicated server issues.
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"If you fail, you get punished - simple as that."
It really isn't as simple as that, this game has plenty of ways to reward you for failing and punish you for succeeding. Throw in the ridiculous amount of issues with matchmaking, bugs, hit detection, optimisation, and unbalanced stuff on both sides and the "punishments for failing" are a small portion of the punishments you'll receive in general.
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Kind of like when you have an injured survivor at a loop. If they have dead hard, you're in a lose - lose scenario.
Do you go for the swing hoping they'll mistime the DH? Well then they correctly time it while slapping you with a pallet. Do you bait out the DH? Well too bad, they drop the pallet anyway and they run to another loop while you're breaking the pallet.
That's not even mentioning how RNG map spawns can screw you over by no fault of your own. Or if teammates decided to drop every pallet possible in a chase before the killer get's into one with you.
There are a ton of things that can happen with this game that are out of your control. Pretending that loss is always due to a lack of skill, is ignoring extenuating circumstances, or broken Aspects of the game. With the most blatantly broken being keys right now, which still enable free escapes mid match with minimal effort.
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i mean evolve was a really good balanced game so it isnt that hard from what i remember f13 was also pretty balanced although i cant speak to much about it since i havent play it much
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Calling this game balanced or unbalanced is simply far too broad to actually accomplish anything. I could load in as a double range nurse with ruin/undying on Wreckers Yard one game, then addonless Wraith on Haddonfield the next game. Regardless of my skill/my opponents' skills, I start off at a ridiculous advantage 1 game, and an incredible disadvantage the next. Every trial has a different level of balance, so when you label the game as a whole as balanced/unbalanced, it really doesn't encapsulate enough of the game as a whole to be an accurate statement.
This is not to say that I don't feel the game swings one way or the other, because I do. But the way I think of it isn't the game as a whole, but rather how individual aspects of the game (killer balance, maps, SWF) affect the balance. I find this hard to put into words, but the way I see it is that each game starts off balanced, and whichever functions of dbd are incorporated with that specific trial determine its balance. To that point, I do feel as though there are more of these functions which swing in the favor of survivors, not necessarily meaning that the game as a whole is survivor sided, but rather that on average, individual trials do favor survivors.
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I'm going to have to disagree, if you put 4 survivors and a killer of equal skill into a game the survivors usually come out on top assuming the players are good as if they are all bad the killer usually wins as seen in lower ranks.
Now lets assume every player is trying their best to win with items/perks and the survivors are in a swf. Yeah even if the killer is really good more often than not they will lose unless the survivors mess up multiple times and even then they can easily recover because of the current meta. The only killer that can really win against that is nurse but that's because she ignores the chase meta, assuming NO ONE makes a single mistake only the nurse can win, every other killer will lose.
That's not balanced.
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Not to mention the impact of "luck" in DBD.
You can have Ruin and a survivor spawn together - literally together AND on the other side of the map from the killer's spawn location. Now that match becomes a 3 perk game by default just because of 1 single luck-factor.
OR
You can be in the middle of a chase and JUST before you get hit someone cleanses HEX: haunted ground. Now you're going down instead of getting injured quite literally again because of 1 single luck-factor.
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I believe its unbalanced but no to the degree the mains complain, its perfectly playable and usually what decides the outcome is either skill (or lack of) and RNG with maps.
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Hittin' the nail on the head; What most of the time decides the outcome of a match is skill (or lack of).
You can always adapt to bad map RNG on either side. People just like to blame it on everything else but themselves.
An example:
If you play against a Myers and your teammates feed him stalking points, then you end up getting 4k tombstoned before you even managed to get a single gen done. Does that mean tombstone myers is broken? Does that mean the map / match was unfair? Does that mean Survivors are underpowered?
The main reason why the match came to this was because Survivors played like potatoes and they got punished for it, I don't think anyone would disagree here. Yet exactly these Survivors are the ones complaining afterwards about how unbalanced the game is.
Desperately trying to to delude oneself - only very few DbD players can actually get out of a lost match and think: "Damn, I totally messed up this time!". That would imply that they lacked the skill to win and who would dare to admit they lack skill when you can blame it on the game or the opposite player?
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It is very unbalanced and very unfair.
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If luck was such a big factor, how can someone manage to get 50 escapes in a row as solo Survivor? Or how can a Killer get 50 4k's in a row? Surely RNG has impact on each match but it doesn't decide if you lose or win.
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It's your lack of skill that makes the matches unbalanced.
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Actually I'm very skilled at the game. It's the lack of balance that make it unbalanced. Hence the term "unbalanced"
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So what exactly is unbalanced from the perspective of a very skilled player?
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So you are going to deny that BOTH sides have conditions that lead to a lose or win pretty much by default ?
Alright - try to win under these circumstances:
Play Clown on Haddonfield with basement god-window rng, against 4 rank 1 pro-loopers with 5000 hours in the game EACH and everyone spawns on a separate generator with brand new part.
Tell me again how DBD is just a brutally honest game and the Clown player just messed up.
Luck is a huge factor in DBD. That's literally just common sense.
OR play solo survivor with bad matchmaking (another luck factor) that throws you in a lobby with 3 new survivors and a 5000 hours Rank 1 Nurse-only-main with Ruin/Undying/Infectious Fright/Knockout.
Tell me again how the only 1 experienced survivor messed up when matchmaking goes crazy every now and then.
Again: Luck IS a big factor in DBD.
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You can't call a game balanced if 90% of perks in this game are a dog poop compared to other 10%.
You can't call a game fair if it has as much bugs and gamedesign BS as DBD does.
I still agree about whining "killer tunneling", "survivors genrush", "swf op", "solo unplayable" etc etc. That's just how the game works, you probably shouldn't play it if these things are pissing you off.
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Firstly, I would say that the biggest issue here was the matchmaking system which has nothing to do with the actual imbalance of gameplay features. If you play Apex Legends against a lobby full of Apex Predators, the game would feel imbalanced aswell even though literally every single person in the lobby has the same conditions.
Another thing to consider - not all Killers are of equal skill so if you plan to use Clown, you may want to adapt accordingly. This may require you to slug, camp, tunnel, 3gen strat or whatever but you need to utilize the most in any given scenario. That's like complaining that you lost with a nacked P2020 (pistol) against a 5000 hours apex player with a fully slotted R99. Is that the result of imbalance or the result of lack of skill and preparation?
As I said already, if luck is such a big factor how can streamers literally show you how towin 50 consecutive matches as Killer or Survivor, regardless of the Killer / Survivor loadout, map or team constellation? The reason is, they know how to play.
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When I say "The game is balanced" I'm not saying that everything in the game is of equal use / power. That would be a completly ridiculous thing to say.
It's balanced as in, 99% of the matches can be either won or lost depending on the Killers / Survivors skill and playstyles. Both sides have the chance to win and it's up to oneself to prepare accordingly.
In CS:GO you can't expect to win a match without ever purchasing a body armour - beyond ridiculous to call the game "unbalanced" because you lost?!
You have to invest to increase your chances of winning and that's exactly what you're supposed to do in DBD aswell. That's why different Killers, Perks, Offerings, Add-ons and items exist. They ALLOW to you win and make the game balanced but it's up to YOU to utilize them.
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Yeah, in terms of killer-survivors balance it is mostly balanced. Some issues are still possible, but that happens in any game.
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Show me a streamer that manages to do 50 escapes in a row solo under current gameplay conditions without the scummy-key-left-behind strat.
As for 50 wins as killer in a row that's more realistic considering 90+% of survivors have no idea what they're doing due to the fact you can get sacrificed and still double-pip as survivor even on red ranks.
Everyone knows red rank survivors often play no better than yellow ranks so your point just isn't valid since all killer characters mechanically just win based on survivor mistakes except for killers that can by-pass mechanics such as distance, pallets and windows using their powers. Again: That's common sense. There's a reason everyone plays Spirit/Nurse in tournaments and not Clown.
Regular killers never really win because they played well. They win because survivors messed up their loops and decision making. Only Nurse and Spirit can factually beat survivors regardless of their looping skills and decision making as their power mechanics nullify survivor mechanics.
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Nice, you're actually one of the players I wanted to trigger with this! Hear me out;
You excuse the loss of Survivors or the win of the Killer with "90% of the Survivors have no idea what they're doing" and with that sentence you pretty much confirmed what I said. The result of the match is mainly based on the skill (or lack of) of the players within that match. You just said it yourself here, white on black.
You also can't excuse a loss with "I played perkless Wraith while the Survivors had full meta perk loadout!". That's like saying "I lost in CS:GO with a knife and no body amour while the other player had a full body armour and an M4!".
As I said; Everyone has the chance to adapt and prepare for the match to get a realistic chance of winning. You can make the matches balanced but if you decide to go into a 4x SWF naked you should expect to be at a disadvantage.
That doesn't mean the game is unbalanced, that just means you're a ..... for not preparing for it accordingly.
E: Also, it's totally up to oneself to use Left Behind or whatever other perk if it helps them achieve their goal. People ALWAYS find excuses and you just proved it. "It's possible but only when you use this and that". Yes, that's exactly the point. It's possible IF YOU ADAPT, which should be common sense for every single PvP game in existence unless you purposely want to handicap yourself - but then don't blame it on "unbalanced / unfair game!".
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Again: Show me a streamer that does 50 escapes solo under current gameplay conditions.
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I'm afraid there is lack of media available under current gameplay conditions (which is something I never claimed) but luckily there are several records of streamers that achieved this goal already in the past, to make the same point I'm trying to make right now.
Also, considering that there are actual Killer streamers that achieved 50 consecutive wins in a row even on different Killers - does that mean Killers are actually in the Power Role?
I myself already did the Ironman Billy (perkless billy from R20 to R1) and I 4k 96% of the matches, only very few survivors escaped via hatch. If I were to record a 50 escapes as Survivor (BY ANY MEANS) what would the conclusion of that experiment be?
We have 50 killer wins and 50 survivor wins so the game is actually balanced? Is that a promise you're giving me, should I be successful?
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The game is legendary in its imbalances and unfair structure, it's an Asymmetrical 4v1 with a dev team that does little to address it's frustrating elements. If you think a dev team as lazy as this some how got an Asymmetrical 4v1 to be either, you're high.
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1 was on hook, 2 down crawled onto each other. I chase the last one down. Done
I go back on those 2 and pick one of them, that one had DS, right after the other one Unbreakable and unhook the 1st survivor.
That was a 4men swf. 1K
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So you failed. You could've easily guessed that there was a DS involved and as a logical conclusion, wait with the pick up to prevent from getting hit by it. At the same time you could've waited out the Unbreakable, perhaps even get enough time to get the two hooked guys killed in the process of waiting out the DS / unbreakable and baam you could've secured at least 3 kills just by being patient and smart.
I'm sure you admit; your mistake was to pick the guy with the DS up. A mistake that could've been avoided if you read the game properly. A match result defined by lack of skill. Unfortunate and undeserved, but in the end it could've been avoided entirely.
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2 down crawled onto each other.
So you mean I constantly down them at the EGC, and I get punished because of "failed to guess who had DS"?
It was 4men SWF with all meta, even I pickup the one without DS active, the other still able to pick to Unbreakable & unhook 1st survivor
So where is "my failing" if that happened?
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haddenfield.
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If I get downed in a couple of seconds because I am up against a good nurse I am supposed to git gud?
If I am being looped on the crotus peen asylum infinite windows I am supposed to git gud?
The only thing that can be "abused" as you put it in your last statement is DS for a very valid reason or two.
DBD is in the best state it has ever been in balance-wise, but it is still survivor sided.
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Nah, you simply should've waited next to those two to let DS run out. It was obvious one of them had DS, that's why they crawled together. They tried to outplay you with a cheap trick but hey, they succeeded.
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- on hook
- dying with DS
- dying without DS
- I just able to chase down them in distance.
With 2 & 3 crawling on each other.
- If I just camp 1. Other pick up with Unbreakable. 1 could die, 2 3 4 escape.
- If I pick 4 right after chase to hook. 2 & 3 get up with Unbreakable, unhook 1. 4 could die, 1 2 3 escape
- If I pick up 2, I got DS, 2 unhook 1, 3 Unbeakable and help 4 (not even necessary if 4 had Unbeakable). After that I down any of them that not 1. - This was my case
- If I pick up 3 and hook, 2 Unbreakable & unhook 1, 4 could just Unbreakable. 3 could die, 1 2 4 escape
Is this cheap? Yes I agree, all Killers agree.
This move requires high coordination from swf, solo could be much less painful.
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But didn't you hear? Slugging is toxic and a hate crime. No seriously if you don't immediately pick them up so they can use ds you're being toxic and that makes it justifiable to harass the killer by any means that you have. Not saying it's okay, but if a survivor doesn't have fun that's being toxic and therefore you had it coming and were asking for it.
/s for anyone that needs it.
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The sad part is that a good portion of the survivor community seriously believes that...
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*You have alerted the horde*
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#########, my lack of skill got me a red rank killer with brown rank teammates. Guess I gotta git gud.
Nvm I can just get hatch.
Oh wait that's also RnG.
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Again, a bad matchmaking doesn't really make the game itself unbalanced. If you apply that logic to Apex Legend, that game is also unbalanced because you could play against Apex Predators (top 1000 players) while you're a noob.
The skill difference of the players in a match does not represent the balance of the game, that should be kinda obvious?! The lack of skill lead to an unbalanced match, you just said it yourself. So what exactly is your point?
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I think you tried to write DbD is unbalancer and unfair. Sure, there are situation where you're the one screwing up but most of the time you don't. As someone have stated put 4 skilled survs against a clown... if the game were fair, the killer wouldn't take x2 to vault a window, the killer wouldn't have to waste almost 3 seconds to break a pallet in which time a survivor can reach the next tile.
Now about the 50 matches in a row... there's a lot of data that you're not counting
Playing the games mean, do gens and be chased, etc. Now I can't crawl all game long and when the killer sacrificed the other three survivors, run to the hatch and escape, I can pip even if I helped with a gen for 30 secs. Does that mean I deserved it? No, I didn't actually play the game. I just let my teammates die.
As for killer... sure, a nurse can 4K almost every match but even that there is a slight chance that a players will get the hatch so no matter how skillful you are, there is not a "4K in a row for 100 matches"
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while i believe this statement has some truth to it, there are a lot of things in this game that are incredibly unbalanced and can lead to very easy/undeserved wins from either side.
killers have:
- NOED
- Iridescent Hatchets for Huntress
- Pinky Finger for Clown (this one isn't a hard carry/free win but it's still incredibly powerful)
- Double Iridescent Myers
survivors have:
- Purple/Iri Keys
- Object of Obsession (in a SWF)
- DS/Unbreakable (on their own not that bad, but together super strong)
the game has gotten better since the old days where BNP instantly repaired gens and moris could be used to kill survivors without hooking them, but there are still plenty of other "nuclear" options in the game. there's a little more to it than just "learn to play better" in some cases, and i'm sure this discussion has been had more times than the entity has consumed a survivor, but i feel like it needs to be said here
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First of all, the Emblem System is not as old as the game itself so when I say winning, I am not talking about pipping but escaping or killing. The Emblem System is in no way a representation of skill, it's purely based on quantity of actions you've done rather than the efficiency of your actions and how you utilize of them. I'm sure we can agree on that.
Secondly, the skill difference or lack of preparation of the players in the match is not a representation of the balance state of the game. If a 100 hours player with naked clown against 4 fully slotted 2k hours SWFs, of course the Clown is gonna lose - not because the game is unbalanced but because the Clown was naked and only had 100 hours.
Would the game be fair if that naked 100 hours Clown had the same chances of winning than the 4 fully slotted 2k hours SWFs? Just think about that logic here. The game is balanced when two teams of equal preparations and skill / experience meet. It's like playing CS:GO only with a knife and then complain the M4 is too strong, where's the logic? Next time bring Nurse to even out the playground.
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So... Killer have strong add-ons and perks..
Survivors have strong items and perks.
The fact that both sides have access to strong perks and items / add-ons kinda proves that neither of these things are unbalanced or unfair. Every single player has the chance to equip strong perks or add-ons, play strong Killers and offerings. It is totally up to you to prepare for the match.
I can only compare it once again with other competitive games;
Play Apex Legends with an empty P2020 against a fully slotted R99? Why play the P2020 when you could bring your own R99?
Play Dota 2 without buying items against a 6-slotted team? Why don't you get your items?
Play CS:GO without using a body armour against a team that uses those? Why don't you get your own body armour?
My point is, just because people fail to prepare for a match properly doesn't mean the game is unbalanced. Of course if you bring a strong killer with strong add-ons and offerings against naked survivors (or the other way around), the game is gonna be unbalanced but that's the result of uneven preparations. Both sides have the chance to prepare optimally for the upcoming match. It's your mistake if you think you can beat 4 strong survivors with a naked Clown, who on earth would think that's balanced? You don't bring a knife to a gunfight and expect to win lol
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I play both sides, and have thoughts(tm) about this.
As a survivor, I can go on a 3 minute chase, get downed and hooked, and then another survivor unhooks me in front of the killer and I'm downed again. 5 generators remaining.
As a killer, I can down survivors in 10 seconds a chase, and still the survivors manage a 4K escape because they finished the gens in 4 minutes.
The problem isn't just the game's overall balance, it's that as the skill levels of both sides improve evenly, the balance of power swings wildly from favoring the killer to favoring the survivor. It's a very common problem with asymmetrical games. In this game's case, the killer not only needs to be skilled and knowledgeable at chasing the survivors, but they need to know how to identify when a survivor is strong, when it will waste time to go after them, since they need to create that pressure of a downed/hooked survivor to slow the generators.
And that mistakes premise is not very true at all; unless you mean the mistake of choosing to play Huntress instead of Blight, when I get 2 gens done before managing to find a survivor because they spawned in pairs on the opposite side of Mother's Dwelling. It's also not a mistake when I spawn in the killer's TR, and they find me when I only just started to be able to move. Ruin cleansed in the first 10 seconds of the game? Not a mistake. Survivor can't loop a killer because the gen spawned in a deadzone. Not a mistake. A killer can literally do nothing all game until the doors are open, and then use NOED to 1 hit slug all the survivors. A survivor can drop a pallet while the killer is on this side, but they just hold W and then they get adrenaline and they'll now take like 25 seconds for the killer to catch up and down them.
Especially with perks in the game that muddy up what are and aren't mistakes in a given situatiion, it's hard to say all punishments are mistakes.
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Oh yes, just put words in my mouth. Never said bad matchmaking makes the game unbalanced, ######### quote me if I did, because I sure did not.
If you don't know how to read, I was making fun of your point, that bad matchmaking usually leads to an outcome of a match that's inevitable, and that's you losing, even IF you're oh so skilled in the dead by daylight gaming, you can't do 5 gens alone when all your teammates get downed in 3 seconds, and your team might not even do gens when you loop a killer for supposedly 5 gens, but none popped. So these ARE situations where skill doesn't matter on YOUR side, but it's the "fault" of your teammates, you've been dissing soloQrs for whining that they get unfair matches, because they're entirely right, because they could not have done anything to prevent getting "bad" teammates in a match.
Also killers that supposedly whine because they're o so unskilled, but they are a new player that goes against a red rank SWF, like how can you say to them "should've been more skilled bro lmfaooo", that's just rude and unfair to say. Now if they compete against similar experienced players, lose and whine about it, using the "git gud" argument is completely fair. Because in this situation no one in the match has an advantage (ignoring all items, maps, perks, etc) so if you lose, that's on you.
So if you're just gonna say and basically be an insane person and not read what the hell I'm saying, I'm gonna make an anology for you because you seem to have issues with that:
You study for a test, and your friend has it too, you compete for the best points, in two examples.
The teacher gives you both 1 week to study. You get less points than your friend, and now you whine about it, the teacher says "Don't get all whiney now, you had the same amount of time as your friend, it's your fault!"
But now, the teacher gives you only 1 week, and your friend 2, you get less points than your friend and you whine about it, someone (So what you're arguing with me, Roobnus) says "LMAOO just get good idiot, it's your own fault", the teacher says "I'm sorry! It was not fair, your friend got more time than you, so the test was unfair done, you couldn't have done anything!"
Anyhow, respond all you want, I'm not responding, if I can't even change your opinion then you're just another entitled person that's so good at this game that they can diss anyone that lost even if they couldn't do anything about it.
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I trust that you are well?
You used your brown rank teammates to prove that YOU are skilled. In fact you're probably of equal skill as those brown players, that's why you got matched together. Rank is meaningless, it's no indicator of skill at all and we ALL know that. The Emblem System does NOT reward efficient and skillful playstyles, it's based on QUANTITY of actions rather than QUALITY and efficient gameplay.
Of course I know that you were being sarcastic but bringing RANKS in a discussion about the games balance is ridiculous, especially the ranks in dead by daylight that are almost entirely meaningless. Then you bring up new Killers that go against red rank Survivors.
Literally your whole post is about bad matchmaking and yet in your first sentence you claim that you don't use bad matchmaking as an excuse for unbalanced matches?!
You're out of your goddamn mind my friend. Next time try to re-read and understand what you've written before you post it.
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That's RNG badluck, yes, but how often do those things actually lead to win or loss? Also, you mentioned such RNG misfortunes for both sides so in the end, it's probably an even split. How can RNG badluck be used as an argument for an unbalanced game?
Does that mean for example when I get crappy loot in APEX, COD or PUBG and the enemies around me instantly get good gear, that those games are all unbalanced because not everyone starts with exactly the same gear? No, that's the entire point of the game - to find loot and prepare yourself for the last circle, to beat your enemies. In the end we all had a choice on how to prepare, if you dislike a certain map as a certain Killer, that's exactly why Map offerings exist. If you struggle to repair gens out in the open, bring Spine chill so you can quickly figure out when the Killer is coming towards you.
For every weakness, there are some perks, add-ons and offerings that help you, but it's up to you to use them as preparation for the upcoming match.
And don't even get me started with NOED. You just said that Survivors can quickly finish all gens in 4 minutes regardless of the Killers playstyle so how come they fail to cleanse 5 totems while they're at it? That's exactly the point of NOED, to punish Survivors that do nothing but gens. As Survivor, you prepare for the endgame by cleansing totems. If you do not put any efforts into proper preparation, you risk getting hit by NOED.
Is that a result of an unbalanced match? No, it's the result of poor preparation for the endgame, respectively a good preparation of the Killer to bring NOED against a team that appeared to be rushers. Killer 1:0 Survivors. I don't see how that can be considered UNFAIR rather than just poor gameplay.
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The game 100% has balance issues. A good killer player can't compete vs 4 good survivors if the killer player is on a low tier killer. The balance issues are also more than that. The ranks are not balanced. We have actual good survivors at red ranks being paired with low skill survivors at red ranks. Why can a low skill player achieve what a good player can in ranks? Why are lower skilled killers in red ranks also? If the game had a ranking system that went off of actual skill, good killers would only face good survivors. This would then make it so the majority of good killers would mostly play meta killers only. Currently, you can be a good killer and play Wraith and 4k at red ranks a lot because most survivors don't play survivor optimally. I could keep going on and on about all the balance issues, but yeah. This game 100% has balance issues that affect how fair the game is.
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another exceptionally unintelligent post, good stuff
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I didn't know a post can have it's own intelligence. You must be a genius :)
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And you dont know how the English language works.
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