Dead Hard is not OP | Change My Mind
Exhausted on the Ground.
Animation Lock.
Predictable.
Comments
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its not
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I don't really mind DH. I have a far more intense hatred for BT, but DH is fine. Sure, it can get annoying when I'm in a longer chase, only to see it reset with a DH to a pallet, but eh.
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True usually its not that bad nd if you can think fast enough just lunge in a 180 but I dont know why you hate BT its usually not that bad but I did have a game with a jane duo with MoM and for the people and soul guard and bt who kept being cocky and I was playing Huntress so I wasn't very equipped for it. Hell I hit the girl who saved last second But somehow hit the girl unhooked and lost 3 people after they fed me so much. Hell I could have endes the game with a slug and nurse was activated but I didn't wannt be a slugger.
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Meh don't really have much to say Dead Hard is annoying but few know how to use it to it's full potential. And it's easy to predict.
Post edited by WishIcouldmain on0 -
Dead Hard can easily be played around by a killer with nominal awareness of how the perk works. It's a perfectly fair exhaustion perk. Killers who complain about Dead Hard are like Survivors who complain about PGTW. They just don't want the other side to have any nominally useful perks.
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Dead Hard (as someone who plays alot of killer) is not OP and i punish it 70% of the time. It's very little an issue for me even in red rank.
DS and even spine chill (as a pig player) are the only horribly designed mechanics that ruin the experience. As a survivor I won't ruin any perks that are "meta" but that's just for my own personal goal.
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I hate sprint burst far more. Dead hard for distance is annoying but when 3-4 survivors all have sprint burst it just takes forever to catch up with anyone for a chase and you can never swap targets.
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No one thinks Dead Hard is OP. The main issue with Dead Hard is that it completely erases the survivor’s mistake and/or takes the killer’s reward away from outsmarting and outplaying the survivors by just pressing E.
It’s so frustrating to go against it as killer because the survivor gets a free pass. It’s the only small PP exhaustion perk in the game imo, because at least with Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing, and Lithe, you have to actually use them smart and plan accordingly. With Dead Hard, just press E and all your mistakes have been forgiven. That’s why I hardly ever run Dead Hard.
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Dead hard for distance is predictable, but not counterable. Mind changed.
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Nothing makes me leave a chase I haven't even committed to faster than Sprint Burst + Spine Chill
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I just find it cartoonishly annoying, I know how Elmore Fudd feels. I understand why he's so mad.
But yeah not even close to op. Just annoying. Doesn't need a nerf. It's fine.
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I personally normally use it to try and dodge attacks, but ya, I most often actually see it used for a small distance boost to make it to a pallet or new loop. In that regard, I can see why it's annoying. When used the way it was likely intended (to dodge), I don't have a single issue with it.
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Not overpowered, but it's so annoying because survivors can make a mistake that normally would have them downed. But guess what? Now that mistake didn't happen!
I find that when you run solvent jug with clown, you'll see how much survivors rely on dead hard to fix their mistakes. You can tell by how they drop like flies in a chase.
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No one really said it was OP, just a pain to deal with if a survivor uses it for distance.
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its not fun to go against, definitely not op though
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The perk design itself is not overpowered, but on some maps DH is a brutal perk to play against. Survivor-sided maps are even more painful for killers when you add a few Dead Hards into the mix.
There is absolutely zero counter play for a normal M1 killer if survivors use DH for extra distance. The survivor is practically guaranteed to make the window or pallet.
If map design wasn't so abysmal, killers wouldn't complain as much as about DH.
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It's a free health state. Most OP exhaustion perk in the game. And now it will be stronger because Clown has no exhaustion add-ons.
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Too bad Clown's exhaustion add-ons are getting removed in the rework aka nerf.
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It will be MOM level soon. they want to buff it to work with their crappy servers. this means they are going to make it take kills away from killers like grabs are survivor sided.
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If you're punishing dead hard users then that user was a Noob plain and simple. Most of the survivors doesn't actually know how to use the perk anyway. They think it's a reaction dodge perk when it's not.
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Dead Hard doesn't have an animation lock anymore. It'll probably be fixed, but it doesn't exist right now.
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The better a survivor you are the better the perk gets. You’ll see novice dead hard gamers just use it to avoid a hit and make a chase last a couple seconds longer, while a more advanced dead hard gamer will use it to make it to a pallet or safe window this is when it’s supposedly “op”/ “carried”/“crutch” perk. It’s just good when it works and trash when you’re exhausted on the ground
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Dead hard is far more broken than DS is. Why? It can basically give you an extra healthstate at the price of nothing, not even instaheals can do it to its effectiveness.
Every other exhaustion perk has requirements and provides decent benefits if you meet those requirements, making them balanced and fair. Dead hard is literally just press e to win if ur injured. There's hardly any skill involved with the perk. A nurse or blight catchets up to you? Just press e. Not going to make a pallet or window? Press e. Get mindgamed/outplayed? Press e. Perks don't get more basic than this. There is no skill in a perk that allows you to recover from ur mistakes and misplays. I get that often it won't work or won't help you or you'll end up exhausted on the ground but when it does, it's benefits are far to great considering there's nothing you actually need to do to activate it.
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Dead Hard For Distance, aka Push E To Outplay. Literally no counterplay despite its predictability, completely undoes any mistake the survivor made and makes the chase last longer for free.
With. Zero. Counterplay. And zero risk of being exhausted on the ground or anything else, and zero downside despite its predictability because the killer knows there is nothing they can do to stop it.
And there's no real animation lock, during the entire animation you're invulnerable. The only way to screw up is to seriously misaim, which to that I say "Ha Ha."
Edit: No, seriously, I actually do laugh whenever I misaim a DH. I never reay see anyone else do it though, I guess they have more practice than me.
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What if im both?
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I agree, as a killer main. Half the time, they use dead hard when I'm a mile away, and dead hard to a dead zone. Even if they are half decent, good killers can either force it out, bait it, or just make it useless by effective zoning.
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This is far from an extra healthstate. If it was press E to ingest steroids, it would be far better than it is. At best, it's extend the chase by using it for distance, at worst, you deadhard into the Sahara desert. Eventually, you'll get used to baiting, zoning, or forcing dead hards to make them meaningless.
If you want to talk about having no skill, falling for dead hards is something. There's timing and map knowledge required to effectively use DH. I could make a 20 hour montage of survivors dead harding while I'm a mile away and then raging about being exhausted on the ground. Getting survivors who can adequately time a DH, as well as counter your counters (bait, zone, forcing), will be a 1/100 occasion in red ranks.
Any idiot can press e to dead hard for distance, but killers can hold a button to lunge every 4 seconds or so, and premature dead hards can easily end up with a smack, since dead hard prevents 360s in the following seconds. Just as every other perk, we need to adapt and learn counters to the new meta, or else natural selection will drag you into the saltmines of hell.
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It's definitely a strong perk. Most of the time the survivors I go against get no value from it because I bait it out. When a good runner has it, it can make the chase harder, but it isn't OP.
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ah yes press E to automatically outskill the killer. Dh vs Nurse is broken, dh for distance is literally uncounterable, even if you can predict it.
If used for its intended purpose it's balanced vs normal killers, assuming it works (big assumption).
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3 healths tates/survivor using dh isnt broken to you? ait then theres not much else to say lol
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I have the feeling that many people dont know what is meant by DH for distance. because if everybody was aware of it you would all consider it at least extremely strong.
The dumb thing is: The way DH should be used is broken because you will often end exhausted on the ground... So it has to be used the way its uncounterable.
But again thats on the devs and not the survivors that abuse it.
Fact is:
- Survivors who know how to abuse it and play it kinda smart will always be able to use it as an extra healing state on a loop.
- Dead hard hard counters Nurse without using it for distance.
- Dead hard is easy to use to dodge key abillities like Traps and shocks. In the case of trapper who trapped a door or something the perk makes the killers power turn against him.
And all that by just pressing a button.
Imagine a Perk for the killer that lets him press a button every 40 seconds where he can look at a pallet and just block it while chasing a survivor. Thats what dead hard does in a nutshell.
Easy usable. But because 90% of the playerbase is really bad... and i mean REALLY bad. Many people dont see issues in this game.
And to be clear:
The issues are on both sides, not just killer, not just survivor. there may be more issues for one side. But in the end all you need to know is:
The Devs could change it, its on them if they dont. No killers to blame, no survivors to blame. Just. The. Devs.
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I stopped playing nurse because of dead hard after her nerf. you need to outplay every survivor 3 times for a down.
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Of course it's not.
Dead Hard is just the one perk that let's survivors outplay killers after they've over committed, which is why they think it's a problem.
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I really don’t understand this complaint killers that dead hard should be used to gain distance and should only be there to dodge an attack.
If it worked to dodge an attack, then they gain distance and get to the pallet/window.
If they use it for distance, the exact same thing happens, they get to the window/pallet.
The only difference is with the dodge you gain even more distance due to the swing recovery.
Can someone please explain why you’d prefer option 1 over option 2?
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Because something is strong doesn't make it OP.
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You mean not using it for what it's supposed to? Because there is nothing a survivor can do against high ping killers from countries that should have their own servers.
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I have two follow-up questions, for those making a case for Dead Hard.
- As a survivor, how often do you feel that Dead Hard has made a significant impact on your chase AND on average how long do you think your chase continues after using Dead Hard?
- As a killer, how long do you think your chases are before the survivor uses Dead Hard (starting from Healthy state) AND on average how long do you think your chase continues after using Dead Hard?
I know not everyone has an excellent sense of time, so if it helps... perhaps consider defining your length of time by the amount of loops around shack, how many tiles the survivor ran you to, or how many windows/pallets the survivor used during the single chase.
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It is a reaction dodge perk tho. It just happens to make distance better than what its meant to do
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Agreed
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somehow it's like the most annoying perk as a killer, but the most inconsistent exhaustion perk as a survivor. had way too many occasions where i got exhausted by slamming my face on the ground. really is a weird perk.
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It is to strong, it completely removes a mistake the survivor makes, the killer mind gamed you and now you can't make that pallet? Press E and get to the god pallet now that chase that was over goes on another 2min or the killer has to leave the chase all together. All of this on a 40s CD. It's not in your face busted af, but it is to strong absolutely.
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