Getting better at looping as survivor is hopeless
context: almost 800 hours in this game, rank 1 on both killer and survivor and play both often.
This is the first time I've experienced a game where you need hundreds of hours before you even enter the territory of potentially becoming mediocre, and then thousands for being eligible for even being good, and then multiply that for actually being good. And I'm more or less talking exclusively about chases here such as looping, not pretty much sitting on gens or being in a swf and escaping and thus "winning".
From my perspective at least, the average survivor is very mediocre at best, more often than not (including in red ranks) worse than that. And I think a lot of people, killer mains and veterans included, can attest to that, but I never see an actual explanation as to why. And from what I gather, the skill ceiling for being a good survivor in terms of looping seems so unrealistically high, which is why few people achieve it. A killer can be mediocre, but they have powers, game functions them out, particularly meta ones. Bloodlust, basically generally any anti-loop killer, so on. Survivors really only have their exhaustion perks and it only works once in chase, and when I play killer it tends to not really get them that far in the grand scheme of things, even Dead Hard (although it is annoying when used right).
Unlike playing killer, the practice isn't linear for survivor. There are plenty of people who only play a handful of killers, and there's no mandate to play a diversity of them. For example there are Nurse mains with thousands of hours on her, and pretty much only play her. In the games they encounter they have the linear practice of being used to how survivors play against a Nurse. The techniques and whatnot that work on other killers is irrelevant. For survivors there is no linear practice and you constantly are going back and forth between killers in a random order, and many with a totally different playstyle and you have to basically be prepared on how to skillfully play in 23 different ways, as everyone has at the very least their own powers and no two are the same. Videos on how to get better at survivor aren't really helpful in my experience either, as from what I notice it comes down to being in the right place at the right time and knowing where to go and how to basically minmax your movement and be precise. Playing killer you do have to know where to go when you mindgame, but for the most part it's just going where you see survivors and/or think they are, and not needing to position yourself. On top of this, resources have RNG on top of RNG. You have variations of a variation of a given map, making it difficult to tell precisely where things are in chase. But forget what I said about looping because of how many killers this game designs where it just deletes out the resources survivors have. Deathslinger, Pyramid head, spirit, huntress, nurse, so on. So many other killers included that have no reasonable counter on the survivor's side other than simply "don't get found"/"don't get hit" but yet these killers just remove the only two resources you had to work with to begin with. And even when there is counter it's all about being in the right place at the right time and being so precise about your movement. Personally, when I play killer, I make a lot more mistakes than when I play survivor, and it's not nearly as punishing, even in red ranks. But apparently that's just me, but playing killer and winning is 1000% so much easier than survivor in terms of mindgaming in chase. Which is why I think a mediocre killer wins more on average than a team of mediocre survivors, especially if it's a strong one like Freddy or Spirit.
The only advice I see is to "git gud" but I'm sorry I don't feel like investing thousands of hours into something that has such RNG value and that just seems so poorly designed on one end. Playing more doesn't help. Youtube videos don't help. Recording and watching your own feedback doesn't help not one bit. And it's just tiresome and boresome that this game is so demanding to even be competent at it. It makes playing survivor, particularly in solo queue, miserable, and am pretty much at the point now where I'm just don't want to play it anymore since I find killer to be boring but unfortunately my friends ask me to play this game and we have no other game in common until Back To Blood comes out so I thought I would try one last time before I just seclude myself to only playing this game with friends.
Comments
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"From my perspective at least, the average survivor is very mediocre at best"
yeah...that is literally the definition of average....the average survivor is per definition average at the game...
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You're misreading, but yet having an attitude. The first average isn't referring to skill, it's referring to frequency. Just like I could easily say "the average person at DBD is good" and grammatically it makes sense. Or I could say "the average person in X community is wealthy" as opposed to "...has average wealth".
Also mind you, I reiterated the point to emphasis the at best part in particular, meaning under particular circumstances and not in general, meaning there are plenty of other instances where the average player is subpar and beneath mediocre. I don't really get what the sass was for but not my concern since you misinterpreted what I said. But not really prolonging this either as I want to talk about the subject, so moving on.
edit: structure
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Nope, you are talking about skill in the quoted part and the average player is what sets the bar to what is the average skill.
The average player is always average at something, the majority of players can never be good or bad because what is good or bad is directly connected and the average player is always in between.
"The average person in dbd is good at the game" does not make sense, the average person is average because they determine what average means for that game.
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To be honest it sounds like you have hit a wall with this game so you're fed up and are giving up trying in matches. It's okay though most players get like that at some point so I think the best thing to do at this point is to just take a break away from the game then either come back when you really do want to play the game again or if you don't want to just move onto a different game that's okay as well.
The best advice I can give you is to just be okay with going down sometimes and just try your best, even the best players make wrong reads and mistakes sometimes no one can play perfectly every match.
I more solo survivor than killer and I'm at devotion 12 atm so I've learnt tips and tricks going against different killers which are essential, although a lot can be transferred to most killers in the game you sometimes just have to tweak your play style a little depending on which killer it is. Also always remember that if you go against one huntress for example and then another after them the next players play style can be completely different so every match you just have to feel out how they play and adjust. Run to a pallet and instead of dropping it run straight through it and see what she does if she raises her hatchet or runs straight through it and then use that info to plan what you will do at the next one. Also see if any killer you are facing respect pallets and use that to your advantage and try to change up your play style throughout the match to keep them on their toes so they aren't able to read you as easily.
If you want to continue with matches try perks like windows of opportunity to plan routes better, dead hard to correct a bad read. Also don't be afraid to try and incorporate stealth during chases to. Try perks like iron will which can help to lose the killer mid chase and help to pull off some plays you wouldn't be able to do without it. Even perk combos like dance with me, quick and quiet and lithe to disappear mid chase or at least gain a good amount of distance before they figure out where you've gone.
I hope this all helps but just try and go into each match positive and try your best and try not to give up, I've had many matches that I thought I was deffo going to lose but managed to pull it back and escape. Good luck in the fog :)
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Some of us just plateau. I can't seem to get better at looping. I just can't. I've watched videos on how to play tiles and when I'm in the middle of a match it's all just forgotten. Sometimes I manage to juke during a chase, but unless I'm against a rank 20 I go down quickly if I try to loop.
I don't blame the game, though. It's on me. Different games have different things I just can't seem to get better at, and for DbD it's been looping.
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I try in games but to be fair it feels like a losing game. Maybe my brain just doesn't really get it but when I started playing killer it was infinitely a lot easier than playing survivor in regards to chase.
Losing isn't really my issue but more so how improving in chases is really hopeless as it's a hot mess almost always. I have pretty much all perks unlocked at tier 3 on some characters and I've tried various builds and nothing really helps much for solo queue since it's...solo queue. I try forgetting about escaping and just focusing on chases, and doesn't really help either. Chases are very short, and if I don't throw pallets down and I try looping instead it quickly just results in a death, like under 30 seconds going from healthy to downed. In regards to adjusting playstyles, I genuinely try but I just feel like my brain doesn't get it, and no amount of play time has really helped. I used to stealth a lot (was a big spine chill gamer), but figured it was dumb to avoid chasing since that's perhaps the core component of playing survivor. Since then it's not really helped, and best I can do at "looping" is just circling around a pallet, which if the killer has enough sense he breaks it, gets a hit, probably will get a down before I make it to another pallet, probably an unsafe one where there's no mindgame on the survivor side.
I honestly am just starting to chalk it up to my brain not really getting in the groove of it. It took me so little time to get good at killer, I was pretty much instantly good at it and was able to 4k pretty much every match, and I find it's much easier to apply tips you see to killer than survivor.
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I feel pretty much the same honestly. The way to get better at survivor just feels like constant infodumping that I can't really remember all at once, let alone even most of it, when in the middle of a chase, and even if I do it's all heavily variable and I tend to find not in my favour, even on good maps.
I don't like to say that I can't do something but the time investment it would take to learn looping and whatnot just does not seem worth it. It's no surprise the survivors who are good at looping have at least one thousand hours, often double or more of that amount.
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You are not obliged to be perfect to win in dbd.
The point you make is valid (and I really appreciate it being discussed cause for whatever reason it is pretty much never talked about); I only disagree with the conclusions you derive - in my opinion, high skill ceiling doesn't lead to frustration, unless you desperately need to reach a certain level in order to play proper balanced matches. That's not the case for dbd, as the vast majority of killers, as well as survivors, are rather mediocre; and that's perfectly fine.
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I was about to write a much longer post but then I noticed a simpel TL;DR - one that I've learned from the devs:
- it only happens rarely so it's not a big deal!
How many players exclusively play only one Killer and nothing else? Not many. I know that there are a few, Ralph and his Huntress for example or TheEntityLeftHand with Trapper (at least used to) but that's two players out of thousands that switch between characters and roles.
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Line of sight is half the battle of looping. If the killer can't see you then he or she is slower and you can focus on drawing difficult to follow scratch marks while evading los. Iron will, spine chill, windows of opportunity are phenomenal perks to guide you to evading and finding safety. Takes time but staying confident even in death will reward you with eventual feelings of success.
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I know, and that's why I wanted to talk about specifically looping. Especially if you're in a SWF, you can practically avoid the killer at all times depending on your teammates and their perks and still "win" or beat the killer. But here I'm just talking about looping.
Maybe this is just my take, but being a mediocre killer is more successful than being a mediocre survivor, even with meta perks. For example a mediocre Spirit or Freddy with undying and ruin is going to win a lot more games than a mediocre solo queue survivor using decisive strike and unbreakable.
I don't know how to explain it but at least for me, I would also deem myself a mediocre killer, but I win so much more than I ever would in survivor, even in a SWF. I win almost all my games and lose few, whereas with survivor, swf or not, I lose vast majority of them. In regards to survivor, I find looping is what really makes me weak, and is what makes me lose a lot of games. Plus I think being chased is the prime source of entertainment of playing survivor and if it's my weakest component when playing then I think that overall means I'm pretty weak or bad at it, but really no matter what I see or do it just doesn't help. Incorporating techniques to survivor in my head is just infinitely more difficult than it is for killer, which tends to be very very easy and probably why I have a better success rate with it.
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I don't see how your quote is related to the overall subject, as opposed to the snippet you're talking about.
My point with bringing that up is that practice for killer is linear. You can only play one killer or play a bunch, but you aren't forced to play any in rotation. You get specialised practice which, in my opinion, makes it easier to learn the nuances of different counters that survivors have against each individual killer. Survivors have absolutely no specialised practice and everything is RNG. RNG the killer you get. RNG the add ons they have that can tweak their power. RNG the map. RNG the variation of the map. RNG the pallet variation of the map. RNG the quality of your teammates, etc. Nothing is linear and nothing is static, it's like the game is giving you random puzzle pieces to put together whereas with killer you are getting chunks of the puzzle at one time due to the linear nature of the practice which is much less confusing
I've read that playing both sides helps you get better at either or, and I'm not sure if that applies to me particularly. I played quite a lot of survivor before delving into killer and I pretty much came out of the gates with what I think is a decent base kit and had no difficulties winning consistently, even in red ranks. However the more variations of killers I played and in general the more I played it, it has not helped me at all get better at survivor.
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Ngl. it's not that hard. it takes time and practice, and i'm sorry if fthis comes off as rude but. If you can't commit to something for long then you won't get better. Imho, it takes alot of practice and skill to loop better... And that's also self-taught aswel,
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tl;dr: "git gud"
i too love "advice" with no substance
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Being good at looping as a survivor is about the amount of time gained for your team to do objectives, not whether you will never be caught. A survivor is expected to go down, the question is how long will it take? This is a 1v4 game, not a 1v1... if you make a chase last long enough the killer can simply lose off that one chase. Sure you will be dangling on a hook, but you have a team to get you off of it.
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Yeah, I kinda agree with you on this one.
There’s a ton of things that come into play when looping, but one things for sure, Killers are made to (eventually) win chases. (That’s my personal opinion anyways).
What really matters is how long you’ve ran them around.
I’m not good at looping. It’s a surprise that I even made it to red ranks, considering I only play this game very casually.
But, I just stick to being a team player. If I or someone can lead the Killer far away from our teammates who are doing gens, then that’s fine with me.
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I feel you OP. I’m a mediocre survivor at best too, even though I’ve hit rank 1, and I understand the pain of learning looping. It’s a painful climb through a lot of failed attempts. It’s a skill that is really actually made up of other smaller skills that make the term seem deceptive. I don’t think there IS a skill called looping. I don’t think I’ve learned to loop. Rather, I learned map knowledge, killer abilities, tile sets, gauging distance, learning to control camera, knowing where my teammates are etc. But I’ve never learned this skill named looping. It’s actually a skill made up of all these other smaller skills.
So when I play a game, I brush up on the smaller skills. Sometimes I learn the tiles, pallet and window locations. Sometimes I focus on controlling camera. Sometimes I pay attention to breaking LoS. It’s these small things that add up to being a good looper. But I’m not sure there is a skill named looping.
There are some things in the game that are really counter intuitive too, and require some thinking and reflecting to understand. I recently saw Fungoose saying that the gens in the halls of midwich are safer than those in the rooms. And I was like “Wooooot?” Aren’t the pallets and loops in the room? Aren’t you more visible in the hallways? But nope it’s actually easier to see the killer coming from afar in the hallways. You see the killer coming a mile away and you know from which direction, and then you just keep running, start running and loop him outside of chase around the entire school. The killer cannot gain bloodlust and cannot catch up to you for a long time and you can clearly see if the killer is still chasing you from half a hall to a full hallways distance. That just blew my mind. Ever since, I’ve been loving looping killers outside of chase. You don’t get points but hey, it’s a great way to help your team and you feel really useful doing it. A chase like that could easily last a minute!
So yeah lots to say about looping but can’t get through it all now. Just pick up the little bits here and there and they add up. It’s frustrating yes, and take a break if you have to, but there are many tiny ways to make your chases last longer. And it will be more consistent over time.
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I think you're overestimating how difficult it is to get to a "good looper" level. Basic M1 looping requires mainly map knowledge and ability to quickly react to killer's movement as M1 killer are usually at mercy of the loop's walls in terms of mindgaming. A bit of clever mindgamening and predictions added to it and you're already better then 50% of red ranks survivors. I'd dare to say that alone doesn't take that long to learn, it's more about the person learing it, if they are the kind of person who keeps cool head and thinks during chases, it won't take them that much time to get good at M1 looping.
Then the killer powers, there I can agree, it takes a while to properly learn how to effectively play againt certain killers. Still, it boils down to, thinking during chase on what the killer sees and wants to do which is alway risky to predict when the killer's power is chase oriented and good. Predicting was and always will be large part of looping and it's alway risky when versed with opponent who's really good at chases and using said powers well.
I personally have around 3k hours in DBD (since release) and about 75% of that is playing killer. Still I'm rather good at looping (most of the time), at least much better then my usual teammates at red ranks. Some killers I'm great againt, others less but overall it didn't take thousands of hours to get better. From what I remember more or less around some 300-400 hours and that's mainly beacuse I used to play very little survivor so I had big breaks in the process of getting good. Some people get better at looping faster, others it might take thousand of hours and they won't improve but I disagree that DBD is somehow really difficult to play well from survivor's side.
Mastering to utter perfection, I would agree that is hard and might even take thousands of hours to get on that level but beiing above average looper to be able to hold a chase for a while at red ranks isn't all that hard vs other red rank killers.
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I have only 150 hours, am rank 5, and can sometimes loop rank 1/2 killers. My friend with 60 hours, is rank 11, can sometimes loop like rank 4 killers. It is really just something that has to click for you, where it is less about sheer time and is more about the ability to actively think and strategize mid chase.
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I never said nor implied it was about being invincible or never being caught. I think I described clearly in my OP it was about not lasting long in chases. However with the way solo queue is structured, it's definitely treated on both ends and feels like a 1v1. There's no team unity to say it's 1v4 when it's basically four randoms paired together playing for themselves only with coincidental teamwork.
Yea, that's why I say being a mediocre killer is much more rewarding in terms of success than being a mediocre survivor. You have more tools to utilise than a survivor. Especially with the amounts of anti-loop killers, it basically nullifies the few resources survivors already have, on top of the natural faster moving speed killers have than survivors, then bloodlust, then you have perks that make looping even weaker. The strongest utilisation survivors have in chase is exhaustion perks and it only works once in a chase for the most part. It's part of why I find playing killer so boring because it's TOO easy to win and it's kind of brainless.
For me I know how to be a team player but I still do believe chasing is the core part of the entertainment value of playing survivor. It makes you feel quite bad if whenever in the killer's terror radius your skill is likely to get you downed from healthy to downed within under 30 seconds across the board of all killers, which is why it's so frustrating, but also so hopeless how there's nothing that can be done about it realistically except investing thousands of hours. Which I find really nutty how I can have less than one hundred hours in killer and have a much better win result than my hundreds of hours in survivor.
Yea I'm aware it's a subset of smaller skills but it's still too much to get even competent. When I play killer I really don't have to understand any of that, I just go to where I see a survivor. The best I need to know is what is a "safe" pallet and what's not and that is very simple to learn, unlike memorising the entirety of maps and having muscle memory of such precise movement to avoid getting hit.
I think it's just too much, and the more I play survivor the more annoyed I get, and the more I play killer the more bored I get. One side is too difficult, the other too easy. And it also doesn't help how you get made fun of for losing or dying. Like the last time I tried learning maps, I wanted to learn Coldwind first because it's one of the few maps that aren't dark as ######### so I used an offering. Even though I died in the game, killer got super upset with me, and tunnelled and and targeted me the next games (was crossplay off) and kept mocking me that I lose. And it's irritating how easy it is to win as a killer, particularly an OP one, and how easy it is to lose as a survivor.
I think I just give up at this point because the time investment put into being better at survivor isn't worth it and I'll just play it with my friends until back to blood comes out. I'd be willing to investment some money buying the game for them so I don't have to play this game with them anymore.
The problem I have with trying to memorise maps is that it's RNG on top of RNG. The same type of map can have pallet RNG and throw you off and the amount of variables is just too much for me since nothing is really ever consistent and you basically have to try to know but guess where things are, and sometimes you don't have the luxury of guessing depending on your state. In regards to mindgaming, doing that as survivor never works out well for me, but I can do it very easily as killer, which I find to be more forgiving in chases.
Like I've tried pretty hard. I watch survivor streamers regularly, including ones that play competitively. I've watched ones that teach like Fungoose, and nothing really ever clicks, whereas I found it much easier to apply as killer, albeit I never really needed as much assistance with killer.
I only feel obliged to try and get better since I feel like I kind of have to play since it's the only game I have in common with some friends at the moment, otherwise I'd just uninstall and not look back since survivor is frustrating and annoying to play and I find killer to be boring due to how easy it is to win on average.
Yea in my almost-800 hours nothing about survivor has really clicked. I've played killer for less than 100 and it's SO much easier at all ranks, it's actually insane. I'm not the best killer or anything but it just clicks more with me. But it's so easy to win, especially pub games, that it's boring and not a challenge. And plus I don't get to play with friends.
I think I overlooked this post, my apologies.
I've tried about every perk combination, and windows is very nice but it's still basically like going to pallet to pallet to me. Line of sight works temporarily but not long enough in my book. I used to be a big spine chill gamer and I like the perk a lot, but felt like I was using it too much so I haven't used it in a while, Iron will I've only started using recently since historically I always thought it was a waste of a perk, and still kind of think it is at the moment since using it but am still trying to give it a shot. I've also tried fixated to try and "mindgame" my scratch marks and I feel like that still involves a lot of planning and knowing precisely where to go.
I don't know it just seems too overwhelming to play a game that's supposed to be fun. I don't have to memorise anything when playing killer. I just go where I see. Playing survivor feels like I have to memorise 23 different books and then theory in order to play it decently and it's just too much.
I appreciate all of the advice but unfortunately I don't think I get it, or it's easier said than done. I'm not trying to be obstinate on purpose, it's just that a lot of the tricks and whatnot to get better at looping as survivor really is not something that comes naturally and hundreds of hours of trying have mostly been wasted in trying to incorporate them.
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People definitely do diminish how long it takes to get good at survivor (jUsT hoLd W 4heAD). It's annoying to feel you're not improving, but hopefully the core game is fun enough that you're still willing to hang around for that even if you're improving really slowly. I have fun with perk-related minigames and such (like charging up Autodidact), but everyone's different on that front. If you're not finding the game rewarding because you want to really feel like you're improving and you simply don't, there's also definitely no shame in just playing with your buddies and finding something else to play on your own. No need to suffer through it if it's not fun!
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Honestly the best advice I can give you is to watch content creators play survivor.
You probably won't be able to 360 or anything fancy like most of them do but there's so many valuable little tricks you can pick up watching them. Most of the time they give commentary to explain why they do certain things in a chase to help you understand the game.
Three content creators I recommend are noob3, sweh, and probzz. The second two aren't as well known as noob3 but they're good at explaining the chase and are generally just pretty enjoyable. Watching these guys honestly helped me improve in chase a lot and pretty much carried me to red ranks.
One last thing I'll add is the more you play, the more you'll realize that a lot of the killers actually have very similar counterplay. It's fairly easy to pull off at high ranks because they expect most people to be bad at chase.
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I play for fun. I don't care about the outcome of the game. I don't care if I get camped, tunneled or slugged. I am plenty content with achieving small successes (As Survivor, I dropped a pallet and stunned the killer but ultimately got caught later, helped my buddies out with an unhook or two, made some heals here and there, etc. As Killer, making everyone bleed a bit, give a few chases, kick some gens, hook a couple, maybe get 1 or 2 kills, etc). So I am most definitely average in that respect.
What's my point? The game is just more fun to play this way. You get too competitive and too sweaty and care too much then eventually you become the typical whiner that you see here on the forums, making posts complaining about everything all the time. Maybe over the years, more and more people are wising up the this fact and actually enjoying the game now, hence the seeming majority of average players even at the high ranks.
Just my opinion.
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I’m the same. As survivor the chase is my weakness despite the years I’ve played this game.
It’s healthy to understand though that the game isn’t intended for survivors to just keep the killer looped all match (or for long periods). Survivors that manage this, although yes they’re good at the game, it’s usually because they’re up against a bad killer.
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The most important thing to do is to find your own playstyle.
i have over 4k hours, and still suck at looping. But i got good at juking killers, meaning that while i dont extend the chase as long as other runners, my chases often dont end in me being hooked, but the killer wasting more time searching for me until he seeks somewhere else.
For some player, looping and chases are the only part of dbd. But it really is not.
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I gave up trying to be good at looping/mind gaming. I'll just stick to being stealthy and do gens/rescues.
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You don't need to be good at looping to waste the killers time or lose them in chase. If you know where the loops weak points and line of sight breakers are you can exploit those to gain distance/disappear.
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not with that attitude.
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The game isn't treating it as a 1v1, because it isn't, whether or not it feels like a 1v1 for you does not make the game a 1v1... the game is and remains a 1v4. Just because the 4 random people placed in a team together still means they are a team. When I play survivor as a solo, guess what Kindred is my biggest friend as it allows me in the moments that matter to know what the rest of my team is doing. Use bond or other perks, gain game sense (I personally just use perks because I am bad). Like seriously use information perks to help out and you know have the mentality of trying to be a team mate. I try and help my fellow survivors out, stick to gens when I notice others are going for a save, heal when I can and all that.
I am not in a team of 4... but I joined the team side! Killers are solo, you are in a team... play accordingly and well if your team plays badly, well tough luck.
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People improve in different ways. There are many ways to be a good survivor in a normal match. It's ok to be a shaky runner. Focus on objectives. Slam gens like there's no tomorrow. A lot of players are bad runners who also do nothing. That's when it gets problematic. Not everyone needs to be a comp/"pro" level survivor to have fun. Contribute in other ways.
One thing that helped me on survivor was actually slowing down. Pace yourself at loops. Maintaining distance is often just as good as gaining distance. You don't need to be going warp speed all the time. Remember that the killer has to react to you as well.
For nuanced killers like Nurse/Spirit/Blight, 1v1s help me a ton. An hour straight of chases in KYF with a good player will be worth months worth of game progress.
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I can't believe that a rank 1 fellow killer and survivor is crying about the game being survivor sided.
The game has a great skill celling for many characters, including killer.
Being a trapper rank 1 is hard, being a wraith rank 1 is hard.
Clown? come on.
Nobody plays Hag because of how difficult the mind game is.
Each side has their problems and obstacles, is part of the game, the game do have RNG?, no i don't think so, i smore related to practice and being able to anticipate to the play.
So i could be wrong, but i refuse to believe that you are rank 1 in both killer and survivor.
i can believe the 800 hours tho.
So could you throw in a picture of your rank, to actually believe that this rant is coming from an experienced player and not someone whos just bashing in the game out of frustration?
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If I had to be honest, the core of the game is only fun when playing with friends. I find killer to be very boring, even in red ranks. On the killer's side you have too many options that allow you to win almost all of your games without much experience, and it's almost brainless to me. Survivor, particularly in queue, requires too much external modifications or add ons to make it tolerable. I can't even do different perk builds without being camped or tunnelled off hook by sweaty killers. I also try to keep playing because there are some streamers I like, and the game looks fun when they play it, and when I play it it makes me squeal in boredom or frustration if I'm playing by myself, and even when I play with friends sometimes I feel that way.
From what I've observed, the RNG typically works against you as survivor, and is in your favour when playing killer. And because I only find playing survivor to be fun the game overall is just frustrating, especially playing against people who camp people to death. I intentionally will avoid doing that even if it costs me the game as killer because I am not really into deliberately trying to make someone else's game worse just to win, I just want to play for fun. I acknowledge playing killer is the boosted or the "power" role of the game and I don't need to sweat to win a majority of my games, which is why I avoid general camping, tunnelling, etc.
I think I'll just wait for Back To Blood and go back to playing modded Portal because I just want to have fun
I've tried that and the advice really doesn't stick.
I tried my hardest to 360. The months I've been trying to do it after watching tutorials again and again, I've only managed to do it successfully less than ten times. Doesn't even matter anyway because of the new motions not really allowing for that anymore. All of the 'survivor' techs also tend to not work either. Dumb tech, window tech, corner tech, etc. I'm a mediocre killer and at best and that doesn't work on me. In those montage videos where killers keep falling for it, I notice they almost never show the ranks at the end.
I've watched all of those content creators and it's fun watching them loop but I find looping advice to be very circumstantial, unlike advice for killer in general. The commentary streamers give on looping is highly dependent on the given RNG they have on that variation of a map they have, as well as not only the specific killer, but the player behind it. It's too much RNG upon RNG. So the advice they give isn't really going to be applicable to you ever except in a rare instance because of the varying factors. Personally when I play killer I have little problem mindgaming loops and stuff, and in general the advice is easier to apply as killer than it is as survivor. Many times I don't even intentionally try, I just emulate what I saw on a stream when playing killer. But as survivor I can't do that because it's infinite RNG.
Also, I'm not sure if I agree about most killers having similar playstyle and counterplay. The only universal counterplay I see is being stealthy but that's not going to work on a Doctor or Legion or someone using Whispers.
There's also the fact there are so many overpowered killers in the game as well that make it severely unfun, many having no reasonable counterplay. Nurse, Spirit, Deathslinger come to mind
The way I have fun in this game is chases. Chasing as killer is too easy and the game gives you too many crutches to catch up so I don't feel rewarded really when I catch a survivor, but the inverse, being chased as survivor, is about the only fun I have. I don't care if I get facecamped or whatever, as long as I have a decently lengthy chase, and that tends to not happen.
I understand a survivor isn't meant to loop a killer forever (hence why things like Bloodlust exist). Even a decently lengthy chase is fine with me, like 45 seconds~1 minute. But like you said, it tends to be bad killers being able to be looped like this. Good ones will shut down chase, and if they realise they can't, tend to leave to apply pressure elsewhere because they know it's a bad idea to just keep chasing one person. It's one reason why in those survivor montage videos, you rarely see rank at the end.
To me, the playstyle is either to be chased or to not be chased (stealth). I find the latter to be extremely boring. I've tried pretty much every reasonable perk there is to use and there are some I like a lot (windows of opportunity, sprint burst, dead hard, balanced landing, kindred) but except for windows and an exhaustion perk, doesn't really help me in chase, and even those tend to not make me look like a potato in terms of looping or even juking.
I can somewhat recognise it, like the short side of a loop versus the longer side, or doubling back after you break LOS or something, and for me honestly when I play killer, that doesn't work 100%, let alone most of the time. You can say in ideal conditions it's 50/50, but I just find it easier to know what a survivor is doing playing killer than the inverse, knowing what the killer is doing when playing survivor. Surprisingly enough, the ones I am not good at at the ones I somewhat have more success with in terms of looping, like nurses and spirits (moderate ones, not baby ones). To be quite honest the only killer I look forward to versuing is a nurse, many other killers I find to be dreadful to go against (huntress, deathslinger, spirit, so on). Give me a god nurse any day over a huntress or a deathslinger
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I feel this. If you're not a pro at looping and mind gaming your only real option is stealth/don't get found.
Also literally every match lately I have played with my friends, killers face camp until stage 2 then tunnel off hook so that person dies on next hook.
I know killer mains love to say "IT'S VALID" but it's also quite scummy and in doing so the killer isn't getting better at literally anything and the survivor isn't able to get better at looping. Then when they both pip down it's just like? What was the point?
I like to play both sides and I'm always trying to get better at looping as survivor and mind games as killer. I'm not sure why there's so many killers out there who just have this bitterness in them and want to deprive survivors of having any fun whatsoever?
I've gone up against rude survivors but I just shrug it off. It's rare for me to encounter rude survivors or sweat squads and yet almost every match I get killers who employ EVERY tactic imaginable to make you not be able to play the game it's silly.
But it's OK I have other games I play. I can only handle a few matches of this game with my friends and then we all want to play something else.
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Well you're not wrong.
1000 hours is just the "entry point" in this game. Anything under 1,000 hours you're practically still an infant.
It takes an insane amount of skill and experience to get good at this game. It looks simple, but because it's so simple mastery takes a lot.
You have to realize that you are not meant to be looping the killer for minutes on end in this game. That can happen if you get lucky but usually chases should end in around 30 seconds. If you can consistently loop the killer for more than a minute each time you are a grand master survivor already.
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It's more than just 360's and random techs they come up with for a new video. Also, the only killer that really requires you to 360 is a Billy or maybe an iri-head huntress. Even then it's still a lot easier than a regular 360.
There's a lot of things you could do that'll make looping a lot easier for you like walking at L walls to avoid mind games or looping around objects to avoid killers like nurse. It's just hard to explain which is why I recommended you watched those content creators. A lot of survivor tricks and mind games are very easy to emulate, and you'll find they're very effective at higher ranks. A lot of killers play nearly identically at high ranks.
Once you start learning counterplay to killers like huntress you'll learn that this same counterplay can be applied to many other killers as well. One tip for playing against huntress is she'll almost always pull out her hatchet when you're about to drop a pallet. The play is just to run through for a free extra loop. You'll find that this same counterplay also works against deathslinger, demo, plague, pyramid head, and basically any killer that respects pallets.
Also the rng really doesn't matter that much. There are very little changes to loops in general among maps unless you're talking about an extreme like hawkins. There's not many variations in loops and most of the time if there are it's in your favor. It's really just about looping one place and when the killer decides to break the pallet go to another place. If you're having that much trouble finding where to go just use windows of opportunity, it shows you pallet and window locations near you.
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Its not that hard to loop. You dont need any mechanical skill.
Look where pallets and windows are and plan your route. Windows helps.
Hug objects and use your smaller hitbox. You would be surprised how hard the killer can catch up. With dead hard you can test risk free how often you can run around a pallet.
Stay calm. Dont be scared of the killer. Its just a hit.
Dont run from pallet to pallet. You dont want to create a deadzone. Holding w brings you far. So you can often use only every second pallet.
You need the knowledge about tiles and killer powers, but 500 hours are enough to be a good enough looper for red rank.
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OP really just ignored you because you blew him the ######### out LOL
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What is "good" looping? 1 gen, 2 gens, 3? The killer gives up? You last longer than 15 seconds? Does it matter against which killer?
Whole post is dumb imo, if you feel like you did good, you did good.
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Simple answer is because the game rewards immersion with pips. Hide and get safe rescues = benevelont emblems; hide and get gens done = lightbringer emblems; hold forward and drop pallets early/camp it without mindgames for the stun = evader emblems. Most survivors do not need to learn looping because hiding gets them results a lot.
Plus, I never understand how killer mains suck at looping and running as survivor, they vs a lot of good survivors yet never pick up any of their behaviour and decision making and adopt it into their gameplay XD
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Iv been rank 1 on both roles since console release and I haven't learned anything new loop wise on the survivor side in a long long while, the only thing that is new is countering new killer powers. Having said that survivor is far easier as you can have many perks to help in chase not to mention the 4v1 aspect but perks and massive skill isn't needed for survivor just knowledge and optimal time saving is key, alot of loops you can see the killer and many others have points in the loop you can sit and safely to make the window/pallet safely against 115speed killers. The issue I see alot of people have is the lack of confidence and tend to run the loop always the same and get caught out, be tricky and have fun. You'll learn what you need to in time, play both roles and you learn faster what's good/bad against all players
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I use to be super trash at Chases and Looping. I forced myself to get chased to improve my skill at it. I'm now alright but I have a lot to learn still. So it's definitely not hopeless.
Also, I'm confused, how is it (paraphrasing) easier for players to learn a Killer than it is to get better at Survivor? Each Killer is different, yet you can play any survivor and you'll be playing the same (barring Perks). Sure you have to learn how to play against different Killers but with your limited actions, you get better and better at them and learn how to use them against most any Killer. Sure, you'll be less effective against Killers you aren't used too but it shouldn't take long to adjust since, again, you have a limited amount of actions you can actually perform. So if you are always playing with the same skill set, let you get better and better at, how is it harder to learn/get better at Survivor than it is to learn/get good with different Killers? 🤔
A Nurse main with thousands of hours on her should be able to dominate most players as they have spent thousands of hours using one of the best Killers exclusively, one that straight-up ignores a ton of actions Survivors have to deal with Killers. I'd bet that for a long time their games were a worse experience while learning her than your games learning to play Survivor. Not a good example to be frank.
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Sorry I missed this post before I responded, my page was not refreshed. Also I cannot for some reason quote this and then go to the next page to quote all in one post so I will make this an individual response
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My point was saying the game is treated by its players as 1v1 many times, not that the game is designed that way.
Information perks I come to find are only useful to me, not my teammates. Bond is ok, don't use it much since I think its range is too short. Kindred I like, but I don't use it for other people. I use it exclusively for myself, and not even for the benefit of being a better teammate per se, I just like knowing if someone is being saved and if I should go for it, or if someone is being camped. Because without Kindred in solo queue I find it hellish having to assume if I'm far way if someone is being saved or not. Just causes unnecessary worry.
Also "gain game sense" is just equivalent of saying 'git gud'
The only time I find this game on the survivor's end is consistent teamwork is in a swf. You can't coordinate with randoms on what to do and where to go; pointing and waving only does so much, and in fact does very little. Can't strategise or do anything. It's basically four people randomly put together doing their own thing and only coming together for the coincidental hook/heal, and if they stumble upon you already working on a generator to genrush
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When I play killer, I don't really have trouble keeping track of perks. There are only a handful that are used anyway and the lot are irrelevant, so it's never been like a struggle to keep track of them for me. I also see less variety in playstyles of survivors compared to killers, because it's basically to be looped or to not be looped (stealth). And the former only changes based on the quality of how you looped. In pub games it's even more consistent because of how dysfunctional the organisation is, so I never really have a problem.
That's also a point I was saying to others. Like watching survivor streamers commentate what they're doing in chase, it's pretty impossible to learn from that because it's all variable. Map RNG on top of pallet RNG on top of killer RNG on top of the RNG of the quality of the player behind the killer. On top of the fact that the areas you saw that streamer loop, even if you're on the same map, you may be in a totally different area, or particularly a dead zone. Nothing is the same. Unless your last sentence was referring to bloodlust, I don't disagree with what you're saying. But my point is that it's much more rewarding and successful (being able to win games) being a mediocre killer than as a mediocre survivor. And I can also apply that to being a team of four mediocre survivors versus a mediocre killer. Your DS and unbreakable won't mean much to, say, a tinkerer, surveillance, undying, and ruin freddy or spirit that's mediocre in terms of skill.
If I really wanted to, I can just stealth out a game and be more successful, but I find that boring. I find fun in survivor in being chased at least for a decent bit. Just hiding and doing generators is boring, and becomes frustrating when you get downed so easily if the killer finds you.
Pacing is something I do, but it's all variable. As survivor I find it much harder to predict what someone is trying to do as killer typically other than very obvious ones, like killers walking through a pallet while chasing a survivor around a loop even if there was another entrance way that made more sense to go through.
Custom games can be fun, but I only pretty much play with the people who introduced me to the game. Tried playing with some people in the DBD discord and some were nice but I'm a pretty shy person as well so it's not so easy for me to make friends in this game
Yikes, the incredulity from you is obnoxious. Gonna be a no from me in continuing this conversation, but since I was asked and I'm also interested, I'll throw up screenshots from steam achievements
That was before the most recent rank reset like a week or two ago, am rank 4 in survivor and 3 in killer since I haven't been playing as much. Rank 1 survivor was much more difficult to achieve than rank 1 killer. Almost gave up on trying to do it but luckily had some farming matches when I was rank 2.
I have a similar experience. When I play killer it's normally really chill, and if I anticipate some sort of toxicity I can just disable comments. You can say the same for playing survivor, but survivors can't really do the same sort of in-game toxicity as killers can. Like there's nothing a survivor can do that ruins the killer's game that's equivalent to facecamping for example.
It's also rare for me to go against rude survivors, but it's very common to go against extremely rude killers, either in game and/or in end game chat. I also don't experience SWFs even that often, let alone really good ones. It's mostly pub games which are easy to win.
I can play DBD for hours if I'm with friends but after a few games of solo queue I'm done and I've had enough. I'm not surprised the really good survivors seclude themselves to SWFs because solo queue is just too much to deal with and is almost designed for you to fail.
I understand that, and I've heard that comment as well. It's just that, from what I've noticed, it's much easier to be successful at winning as killer than as survivor in pub games (exception would be a good swf, since swf doesn't automatically equal being good). Like I have probably less than 100 hours in killer but it was significantly easier for me to get rank 1 in killer than in survivor, and I struggled immensely to get rank 1 and it was so frustrating that I vow to never intentionally commit to doing it again. Whereas I can get it anytime with little to no sweat while playing killer if I so chose.
For me, the fun of survivor, other than playing with friends, is the chases. I like knowing that I did decent in a chase. Like sometimes I'm being chased and I run out of resources and I just die, and that's ok, but many times I know I could have done better.
The survivor tricks I don't find easy to emulate at all, since I think to have a better understanding of it is to be very experienced as both a survivor and killer. For me when I play killer I'm not experienced in that, neither survivor, but I find it MUCH easier to apply those tricks I find survivor content creates doing when I play killer as opposed to when I play survivor. Like if LOS at a gym is broken, the survivor is likely to kind of linger around until they see me coming, or go the other way. When I play survivor this isn't really helpful because it's just a variety of things you can do as killer and it's only coincidentally that it works out, and often times I fail at it. As killer it just "clicks" more if that makes sense. Also another thing I have difficulty with is grasping the perspective of a killer when playing survivor, like in third person. That's perhaps one reason why I couldn't 360 well. Whereas when i'm playing killer it's so much easier to imagine what I look like or would look like on their screen.
I do notice some patterns, like what you said about a huntress. But her hatchet hitbox is questionable, and I've had too many questionable hits with her hatchets. In situations like that I will often just walk through a pallet if I hear her raise her hatchet, and I will pre drop it when I have a chance to loop around it. Similar situation for Executioner. Deathslinger on the other hand...I truly believe doesn't really have a counter. Unlike a Huntress, there is no sound notification as to when he's about to shoot you, and his fake is identical to when he's actually about to shoot you. On top of that, trying to look back and forth constantly makes me prone to running into objects as I'm trying to both look at where I'm going and what a Deathslinger is doing. I try to just break LOS and crouch sometimes or go near objects but there's no interaction between a survivor and a Slinger. His only counter I find is to don't let him get near you, which is pretty boring.
I use Windows all the time and it's one of my favourite perks, and but it doesn't help enough to alleviate the problem, especially against certain killers like a Deathslinger.
It doesn't seem as easy as you claim. I think if it was that easy the survivors you go against, especially in red rank, wouldn't be so easy to beat at the very minimum 3 out of 4 times.
He came into the thread not wanting to contribute to the actual topic, misrepresented what I said, and put words in my mouth, hence he got ignored. Overall he wanted to be a waste of space, much like you, but you seem like enough of a lapdog to want to stick around to give my thread more views and attention. Enjoy your stay, muppet.
If you find the topic uninteresting you can always leave it. The point wasn't about my feeling good about my skills, it's that I don't, that's the point. Not really a set standard as it's variable, but I basically defined it I believe in my OP as going down with little to no fight, or very quickly. 30 seconds on a basic M1 killer from healthy to hooked is not very good in my books.
I find immersion boring though. The only killers I feel like I need to do that on are Oni in demon mode or deathslinger because of how uncounterable they can be/their snowball effect with their power.
I can sympathise with those killer mains because it's a lot more difficult IME to apply what you see as killer when playing survivor than the inverse. When I started actively playing killer I kind of unconsciously absorbed the mind games I saw with killers I versued and so I never really "sucked" at that point, I was able to hold my ground on average. I still go against good survivors when I play killer but as I was saying before, i think it also is very dependent on an understanding of the perspective of your opponent. When I play killer it's easy to imagine what I look like on their screen, but much harder to imagine precisely what it looks like on a killer's screen when I'm playing survivor. Stuff seems more zoomed in and in your face because of the first person camera playing killer.
I only agree survivor is easier if you're in a swf, particularly one with at least some good players. In solo queue, it most definitely is not easier, so I cannot agree with that. And specifically I am talking about looping as survivor. You can say it's easier if you have stealthy survivors sure.
I think to get good at looping, definitely more skill is needed. Playing killer you are not required in any instance to play other killers. There are many people who have the majority of their overall playtime in the game in one or two killers for example, and not relatively evenly distributed between all 23. You can specialise when you play killer and the practice is linear, but this is not so for survivor. To be a good survivor particularly at looping, you need to know very intimately the nuances and counters to all 23 killers or at least the majority of the popular ones. When playing killer the game isn't going to punish you in emblems for only playing one killer or tell you that you're not doing enough. The game mandates you play against different killers as survivor, but you are not required to play different killers in the slightest
@GodDamn_Angela I also think your example is poor. You're making assumptions (I'd bet that for a long time their games were a worse experience while learning her than your games learning to play Survivor) and you seemed to have picked the hardest killer for some weird ass reason. I'm actually confused how you thought that was a good point -- "I bet X is like this because I said so even though I actually have no way to objectively say X person had a worse time learning than Y person." I don't tend to say this but that point was very ######### to read. Not going to bother to argue with your hypotheticals considering the quality of that argument, but feel free to linger around the thread to adds views or to give your final comeback or whatever.
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I feel your sentiment. Contrary to popular community belief, survivor is too difficult when compared to killer.
Yes, it's possible to get really good at survivor but getting there is too much effort. You can buy this game, buy Freddy for example, invest 100 hours and you are now almost undefeatable unless a coordinated SWF swat team comes along.
Invest 100 in survivor and you are still dying 9 out of 10 matches or more. That's wrong.
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I am terrible at looping. I also have Carpal Tunnel that prevents me from being able to press the keys as a normal player would. I play 98% solo survivor and I have no difficulty performing my role. I cannot loop well due to my Carpal Tunnel but I can play stealthily, cleanse totems, do gens, rescue my teammates after the killer leaves so they don't get farmed, prepare the gate then go unhook if need be and waste enough of the killers time by having them chase me to the other side of the map in order to allow my team to reset and heal.
Yes, some things on killer side needs to be nerfed, such as Freddy (I can't wait!), but the number one thing that makes solo painful isn't tunneling, camping or slugging killers, it is idiot teammates who refuse to learn the game. Something as simple as going into a locker when the killer downs someone is lost on most solo players.
People who complain about killers being generally over powered are either bad or woefully ignorant. That, or they're trolls, which I think you are judging by your comment history.
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At least I have hard facts to back up my claims. You have none, except being a biased killer main.
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"It doesn't seem as easy as you claim. I think if it was that easy the survivors you go against, especially in red rank, wouldn't be so easy to beat at the very minimum 3 out of 4 times."
Yh thats exactly what i dont understand. It makes no sense. Most people should be able to do it. You dont need a good reaction time etc.
You can just copy exactly what you see a good survivor do on video. It is just walking. Holding a button.
So the problem is maybe experience?
When i use windows of oppurtunity i dont even need to learn the map.
Reasons could be: dbd is too unique and has no tutorial, players dont want to be good, etc. But i dont really understand it.
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You accuse me of being a biased killer main even though I won't touch killer with a ten foot pole.
You have no facts. I can link to video after video after video showing how compentent survivors stomp good killers any day.
If you had hard facts you would have provided evidence for them, yet none of your posts does so.
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Watch good players on Twitch. That with your 800 hours should help. Some people do have a plateau to their ability though. Personally, I only have a little bit more time played than you, and I'm fairly decent at survivor, but I have also been watching DBD on Twitch for thousands of hours. Yes, I know, I have no life lol.
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I'm not interested in a SWF beating a random killer. My complaints are randoms never win. Watch any popular killer streamer for proof - they literally never ever lose.
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