SWF calling out hex locations
Was in a SWF game chasing a survivor who happened to stumble upon a very well-hidden 2-token DH hex (so no signs to the survivors it existed yet). I'm thinking "crap, there goes the hex". I down and hook the survivor and, sure enough, while doubling back to the hex it was cleansed.
SMH
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It happens.
Had a match against 4 man SWF with a streamer. Rewatched the vod and the first survivor I chased immediately called out the totem when we ran past it and it was cleansed just as I hooked her.
I still killed them all but it really sucks when your totem is out in the open and the SWF can talk to each other to destroy them.
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I've cleansed hidden totems shortly after a Teammate runs by while being chased when I'm playing solo. It's usually just luck I was nearby and heard the crackling of the fire.
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Literally yesterday i had cleansed a huntress lullaby after my teamate called it out. Nerf undying btw. Could behavior at least slightly consider slight exclusive swf nerfs. Its absurd how both solo and swf is balanced under the same rules. Start with minor healing, cleansing, gen progression changes to compensate for the efficiency swf brings.
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Ruin is extremely unreliable for this reason; but it's incredibly powerful if left up.
That is why undying is so incredibly powerful right now.
However after the undying nerf, I feel a lot of people are going to get a crash course in how bad using 2 perk slots just to keep ruin up for 2 minutes instead of like 60 seconds is.
It might regress gens by like, 2 or 3 kicks of pop at most- is that really worth two perk slots?
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I didn't say swf don't call out hex totems to eachother. I just pointed out as a solo player I've cleansed hex totems my random teammates have been run off of or have run by during a chase.
Nerfing swf will hurt the solos that get paired with them. Instead buff solo and killer.
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tbf that has been what they have been doing more or less. The game is slowly being balanced around SWF being a thing; and them trying to give solo queue survivors far more options of communication/information so that the bridge between the two is smaller.
Statistically (unless BHVR has been lying about the stats) it's been working fairly well also.
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The game was not designed with Survivors SWF using voice comms, in mind.
Now however, it has to be changed as such.
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Annndddd?
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That makes no sense, as it makes the communication between Survivors even more enabled, and the situation worse for Killers, as it bypasses perks etc.
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The problem with SWF on voice comms, is that they can communicate things they otherwise would not be able to/aware of.
Adding an in-game chat makes that even worse, and would enable that to even non-SWF non-voice Survivors.
Your suggestion directly makes that issue WORSE.
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It's another feature of the fifth perk called "discord". Best perk in the game
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Adding an in-game chat just even further enables Survivors to share information, coordinate perks, actions etc, that they now cannot/are not aware of. It specifically makes the existing problem of communication between Survivors MULTIPLICATIVELY WORSE.
Your "solution" would be like cutting off one of the Killers legs, so that they can be "balanced" around jumping around on only one leg.
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Balancing needs to happen around making Killer perks operate in a way, that possible Survivor communication is NOT an effective counter to them.
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For example:
Doctors Madness effects on Skill Checks is something that SWF on voice comms cant counter, as the effects are intrinsic to the Survivor themself.
Thats the kind of balancing/design needed to mitigate against the COMMUNICATION that SWF on voice comms can leverage, which makes huge swathes of Killer perks/abilities etc, and many Killers, largely irrelevant and not worth slotting, much less investing into.
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I read and understand what you mean, but its categorically false, for the reasons I have stated above.
The PROBLEM IS SURVIVORS COMMUNICATING/COOPERATING WHAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO/BE AWARE OF IN-GAME.
Adding an in-game chat would make that EVEN WORSE.
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You aren't understand what the problem is
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For example:
This is rendered completely useless, when Survivors are able to communicate where the slugged Survivor is (despite there being no in-game indication), whether by voice comms, or even worse, if there was an in-game chat.
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read
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PS: There is no way to remove SWF from using 3rd party voice comms.
Its impossible to detect, stop, block in anyway by Steam, DbD or anything else.
As such, the deliterious effects of SWF communicating OUTSIDE of the game, has to be remedied by balancing/design internally of it in such a way, that the leverage advantage of Survivors communicating is reduced.
That means making Killer Perks (and Survivor perks) of such a nature, that the ability to communicate does not affect them.
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Design/develop with the specific issue in mind, that perks etc should have effects which cannot be overstepped-negated by communication between Survivors.
The problem is Survivor communication. Since that cannot be removed, the only remaining option is to design/develop in such a manner that that communication has as little impact on the match as possible.
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"But how?"
By asking "Can this perk be made useless by Survivors communicating?"
If so, then change it in its effect to something that CANNOT be mitigated by communication between Survivors.
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Its not my job to figure out how to do it.
Im pointing out that inorder to do so, it requires a complete shift in the design/development philosophy to specifically account for the fact that Survivor communication is the problem, and that perks etc need to be balanced/implemented around reducing the leverage/advantage of that to as low a level as possible.
As I stated earlier, Doctors Madness effect is one example of how Killer has an affect on Survivors that is NOT mitigable by communication, because it intrinsically effects the Survivor in such a way that communication about it is irrelevant.
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How old are you?
Your only suggestion was in-game chat, which just MAKES CONCRETE THAT SURVIVORS COMMUNICATE, EVEN IF THEY ARENT ON VOICE?
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You are the one that childishly demands concrete solutions for how to do what I proposed, when you have provided no better.
You still are failing completely to understand, that the PROBLEM IS SURVIVORS COMMUNICATING.
That is the issue that needs to be worked with, and around, and putting in a in-game chat literally makes that 1000% worse.
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If you ask nicely, BHVR will give killers a fifth Perk slot to compensate for the figurative one survivors have.
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Describe to us, specifically:
What do you think is the problem with SWF having unfair advantage in this game?
What is it about SWF that is problematic, specifically?
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"The fact that information is distributed"
And how, specifically, is that information distributed by SWF?
"They can coordinate perks and plays can be done between survivors due to their overall ability to coordinate."
What, specifically, makes that coordination possible?
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How about two killers in a match on comms? "You patrol the north half of the map and I'll watch the south half." LOL Let the carnage commence...
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Oooh, yeah, 8 perks worth of killa FTW. And give them an auto-shut-hatch Perk!
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Finally someone who didn't get it backwards.
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I like where this is going....lol....
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Survivors in a SWF communicate. There’s no way to unring that bell. It isn’t limited to communicating about the killer, but here are some examples of things SWF can communicate that solos can’t:
- The killer (“It’s a Ghostface, be careful”)
- The killer’s perks (“They beelined right to me healing, they probably have Nurse’s”)
- The killer’s add ons (“That Hag trap didn’t notify me so she has Rusty Shackles”)
- Totems (“There’s a lit totem in shack” / “I’ve cleansed four dulls so only one left”)
- Survivor perks (“I have Adrenaline so finish the gen before you rescue me” / “I don’t have BT but you do, you go for the rescue”)
- Hook states (“I’m on death hook, try to take hits for me”)
- Survivor items (“I have a medkit with full charges, do the gen” / “My flashlight is depleted so I can’t save you”)
- Map layout and pallets (“Shack pallet is gone” / “This side of the map is a dead zone, don’t run here”)
- Where they’re being chased (“Being chased around shack”)
- Which gens are being worked on (“Doing the gen in the main building”)
- Gate progress (“The gate on the left is 99d”)
- The killer’s playstyle (“He doesn’t mindgame at all and just holds W” / “He’s camping around the corner so do gens”)
Etc. etc. etc. I’m sure you get my point.
How could the devs possibly change this? They’d have to completely rework the game from the ground up. While you’re right that considering how information sharing affects killers is important (and they do seem to be doing this more), it’s impossible for them to redesign enough existing gameplay elements so that effective communication makes no difference.
That’s why people talk about giving solos more information or an easier means of sharing information. Because then survivors are on more of an even playing field, and from there they can buff killers further. If solos were able to communicate like SWFs they may not have nerfed Undying, for example, because it’s less of an issue for a SWF. And they can buff every killer who isn’t Freddy or Nurse or Spirit.
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Sounds like a lot of people are running naked hex perks. If we know they can be called out, why are we leaving them vulnerable? Smh my head. Don't just run Devour and nothing else. Ruin/Devour/Haunted. Gg
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This is why i dont use Hex Perks
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You dont fix the problems resulting from x (in this case SWF communication) by adding MORE of x (more SWF communication.
Its literally ######### and shooting the patient.
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I know that is what you where "trying to say".
But it doesnt change how utterly wrong you are, and how utterly unfeasible that is.
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Punishing people for playing with their friends is just not a good thing to do imo. Doesn't matter if you're introducing a rank 20 baby to the game and are already at a huge disadvantage. Doesn't matter if you're not on comms. SWF bad, here's a debuff.
I think the answer is to give solo players more information to reduce the information gap between SWF and solo. It's never going to be perfect, but you could definitely reduce the information gap to the point where it's not an issue. Possible ideas: buffing information perks, putting a totem counter in the HUD, giving survivors more gestures for communication beyond just beckon and point, giving more consistent buff/debuff icons on the HUD (e.g. showing a Deliverance buff if your teammate is hooked with Deliverance active), letting survivors see their teammates' perks in the lobby, adding cross-platform lobby chat so that solos can strategize with their teammates before the match, etc.
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Nothing you’ve said is feasible. It’s impossible to make this game have no benefit to a swf on voice commS over solos, unless they give solos the ability to communicate too
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This. I think that the best thing the devs could do is make soloQ as powerful as SWF giving them communication tools (that SWF already has), and then buffing the killers + buffing/reworking perks around that. Perks that are redundant when you're in comms (like Kindred, Bond, etc) could be changed into something else, and perks/killers that are specially weak against comms (say Trapper for example, or hex perks, or literally anything else that applies, I'm typing as I think so I might forget some stuff lol) could be buffed/changed so that they can face SWF more properly, since every match would become SWF-ish.
Comms are not going away. The devs might as well provide the comms tools to soloQ players and balance the game around that.
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Maybe I was running a backup hex perk like Undying / HG and they took that down already. In either case, needing to use a second perk to prolong the life of a hex may mitigate, but is really unrelated to the matter of imbalance between SWF and non-SWF.
Post edited by Woot1234 on0 -
I've been saying for years that they just need to add ingame voice chat so every group of survivors has the same capability for coordination.
Asymmetrical games either be balanced for group coordination or balanced for solo queue and still be fun for both sides. You cannot do both, because the 'fun for both sides' part is what goes out the window instead in that scenario.
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