http://dbd.game/killswitch
"Just Do Bones"
I've been wondering lately about how effective going out of your way to cleanse all 5 totems in a match is. I'm not really trying to start any sort of NOED argument or anything of that nature, but more often than not, especially when I play solo queue, I find that unless I run Detective's Hunch and, given the opportunity, cleanse all 5 totems myself, totems rarely get cleansed outside of hexes. I can understand the 4 man SWF sort of approach, but a solo survivor or duo won't likely be able to do every one. 9/10 times, if I see a totem, I do a totem, that how I play, and that's how I always play, but I came across a survivor today who couldn't understand why we'd cleanse totems when ruin was gone, and insisted it's useless. Do any of you feel like cleansing totems is useless outside of visible Hex perks (Ruin/Undying/Devour Hope/Huntress Lullaby etc)?
Comments
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If they don't want to cleanse totems, that's fine, but I'm not coming to save them if they get hit by NOED nor will I back them up when they complain about it.
35 -
Cleansing a totem takes whole 8 seconds? Nope can't do bones that's a whole 10% generator progress lost right there
20 -
I often find 2 to 4 myself solo just moving between gens looking as I go, it seems too often nobody else wants to do them, then once in a while there's a noed and if I remember one I left in memory but had to leave due to danger or something and it's safe I'll get it otherwise I'll laugh since it's their own fault they got the noed. Best way to play is either for points or to screw with people, whether the killer or your teammates. After sitting ten minutes for a game, make it fun for yourself.
2 -
you dont have to cleanse all 5 of them.
actually, you should only be doing that once you located all 5 - its a lot more effective not to cleanse them and instead keeping their exact locations in mind to later quickly check for a NOED.
doing that you dont "waste" time on them and you also dont risk NOED spawning on a totem that no one has been able to find throughout the whole game (at least you significantly reduce the chance of it doing so).
of course, if you have perks such as Inner Strength or you just generally want to cleanse them for points, there is nothing wrong with that.
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If I'm running inner strength I'd do it, but cleansing totems for noed is not worth it at all. All NOED does is grant a bad killer the ability to secure 1 kill at the end of the game. They get a cheap instadown at the end of the match, hook the survivor then proxy camp them until they're dead which gives all other survivors more than enough time to open an exit and leave. And it is more than likely that all 4 survivors are alive, because the killer was only playing with 3 perks and was relying on NOED to do something at the end of the game.
If NOED does proc I'll do a quick scan of the usual totem spots. If I find it then I'll cleanse it and we can save the guy on hook. If I don't then oh well.
5 -
Cleansing dull totems instead of working on gens is slowly giving killer a chance to get more kills. Eventually if he does have noed, depending on the team's courage it's possible to find noed quickly and save the hooked survivor. tl;dr time is everything in this game, thus prioritize the main objective.
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if you already see the team dancing around the killer, you might as well get totem points, try and stack wglf a little, then start looking for the hatch to be ready for the last guy
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The issue with saying "Just do bones" is that it's very unrealistic in solo queue. Many people don't do totems at all unless they're glowing, even in the undying+ruin meta. But it's more than just saying "well that's your teammates fault". It's also wasting a lot of time for a perk the killer may not even have.
It's like if there was a survivor perk that, if all breakable walls on a map are up, anyone using the perk can heal themselves and others at 200% speed, and the perk is disabled when all breakable walls are broken, and the solution is to simply tell the killer "just break all the walls 4head"
Is it easy to break all breakable walls? Yes. Is it wasting your time and giving survivors more time to do objectives? Yes. That's just like totems. It's giving killers free pressure as you're not doing generators, the most important objective, and you don't even know if it's worth your time doing or not if it's something like NoEd.
It's not about doing totems, it's about wasting time doing something that may or may not even be worth your time, and many times it's not worth it. Even if you're running builds to know where totems are, you are running around the map typically not doing other objectives and giving the killer free pressure. It's only not a problem if multiple people do it, which is not common.
I personally stopped running totem builds in solo queue because it was annoying me having to do totems by myself. For perks like detective's hunch, I tried doing two totems perk generator since it only shows auras when a generator is done, and many times it wasn't possible to do a totem because the killer was in that area, so I had to wait since I knew if I waited too late in the game that I couldn't get all totems done in case of no ed before the last generator popped. But I typically could not get them done immediately as I was the only one doing them and pretty much was not able to do a generator and the only other objective I could do was heal and save.
I only do totem builds in swfs now, but I find that pretty useless since you can power through something like undying and ruin in a swf. If it's no ed you can plan to not finish the last generator to find totems if you suspect the player has no ed. in solo queue you don't get to control that, so that's where the urgency of doing totems asap comes in, for me at least.
The only way I find saying "just do bones" as an acceptable answer in solo queue is if there was a counter that survivors could see of all totems that are cleansed. Because without totem perks you are running all over the map having to manually check where each individual totem can spawn and you are wasting even more time going to places where totems are cleansed since you don't know if any are done are not.
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It actually takes 14, more if Thrill is active. Closer to 20% of a generator than 10%. Also not factoring the time to search for it, which accounts for much more than those 14.
Not cleansing a dull or cleansing a dull totem can be a strategic decision. If Thrill is active, cleansing dull totems reduce its tokens.
Now to the NOED situation. Suppose the last generator was completed, the killer has NOED and is now camping your teammate. If you cleansed 3 dull totems during the match. Since totems are usually spread out from each other, you know that areas around the cleansed dull totems are less likely to have more totems so you search somewhere else. Now imagine the same situation where you ran into those totems but didn't cleanse them. You now know precisely 3 possible spawn spots for NOED and you can check them fast.
Those are just different playstyles.
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True, but for cases like NOED, it's more beneficial to get rid of the perk before it even has a chance to spawn. I do get what you mean though, it makes sense.
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Bones aren't a problem comment made by a Detectives Hunch gamer. Just depends on the flow of the game. If the killer is getting Little pressure go for bones. Killer has pressure don't do bones simple as that. This is in Solo Q just go with the flow.
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The just do bones argument would be a good argument to a 4-man swf complaining about NOED. Unfortunately, the perk shines the most at low/mid ranks where it's unrealistic to expect a team of solo q players to cleanse all the totems (especially efficiently). Just do bones to these people means not knowing totem locations which exponentially increases the time to find totems which makes it unlikely for them to reach end game anyway. I think NOED is a big deterrent for new survivor players in current state and this game does seem to have a player retention issue. The token suggestion by Otzdarva would be a good compromise so a team that has done well and not been hooked much has a much better chance to escape noed as well as bring unparalleled end game power for killer if they're having a close match with everyone on death hook.
To answer the question. It is not efficient to do bones instead of generators. Do bones as you're moving to the next generator, while you're running for an unhook, running to heal somebody. Always be on the lookout but don't make it primary objective it will lose the team the game. Exception being ruin if the killer is pressuring gens correctly.
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I don't get it. I love doing bones and it feels like I'm always fighting for them with my teammates.
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I don't go out of my way, but if the opportunity presents itself I'll cleanse a totem.
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Whats happened to me several times in the last week is the uncleansable totem under the combine on coldwind. One time the killer brought noed. That was real great. Another time their ruin was there. Pull your head out bhvr
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I'll try to make a mental note of where the dulls are when I spot them. Some only cleanse the well hidden ones, to make cleansing noed that much easier.
Time is so precious in solo q. Cleansing totems is a decent % of time that could have been applied to a gen. I get so mad if we all die with one gen left.
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I had the same thing happen with a really good nurse who had ruin and undying. Ruin ended up being untouchable. Not op, but having permanent gen regression is a bit much.
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Yeah but then you have the problem where if a killer is putting a lot of pressure, how do you get rid of things like NOED or Undying/Ruin or future Undying/Devour Hope?
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If the killer is doing good enough it's then unlikely they have Noed. Detectives Hunch is best used as an early game perk fix that one gen then when the killer usually has no pressure then get to those bones. Now I usually get them all pre end game. But if you can't do that then run around and remember where they are then if they become an issue get them.
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It is actually pretty easy. There are five Totems. There are four Survivors. I've NEVER played a game, nor has anyone I play with ever crossed a map without seeing at least 1-2 Totems. If each person stops to cleans one Totem, then four of them are already gone. Only one of you has to do an extra. This doesn't even require a map or Perk. It just happens as a matter of course. But yes, if someone bothers to bring a map or a Perk that helps him/her find them it becomes even easier. More to the point, you don't have to cleanse any Totems that are lit (if you don't want to) to stop NOED. As long as the unlit ones are gone, NOED can't appear when the Generators are powered.
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I think the common argument is that especially in solo queue, not everyone will do totems. To my point, I've seen people say they don't care, nor will they go out of their way to cleanse them. That strategy only works if everyone commits to doing totems when they see them. But because randomized matchmaking is inconsistent and I can't guarantee I will be matched with likeminded people, it becomes a guessing game whether or not all the totems have been cleansed, even if you yourself have cleansed 2.
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Yes, that is a common argument. It is a wrong-headed argument. That says nothing about whether or not NOED is balanced. The problem is clearly the SURVIVORS who are choosing not to do the bones. Do you see my point? This game is about agency, that of the Killers and the Survivors. Totems are a gamble for BOTH sides. The Killer is gambling away a Perk Slot hoping that his Totem isn't immediately wiped off the map. It is high risk with the potential of high gain. The Survivors who choose not to spend time on Totems (WHICH ARE AN OBJECTIVE) are gambling that diverting all that time to Generators will pay off with a faster exit. Their bet is that there will be no NOED or that they can avoid it anyway. Again, high risk with the potential of high gain.
There is nothing wrong with NOED. There is something wrong with the attitude of most Survivors. I personally suggested that they simply make NOED a base mechanic so that Survivors have no doubt that they should be doing those Bones. :) My suggestion is that it activates once the last Generator is powered and anyone who has not cleansed at least one Totem (lit or unlit) is now Exposed. *Those that did are not. The switch to power the gates, however, is locked down by the Entity for a period of time based on how many Totems are still in play. 5=60 seconds, 4=45 seconds, 3=30 seconds, 2=20 seconds, 1=10 seconds. And of course, going out and killing the now lit NOED will end the negative effects immediately. Personally, I think this would finally make it crystal CLEAR to Survivors that Totems are objectives. But the DEV prefer to let them continue to gamble and then complain that they lost. Funny that. It is just like gamblers I've watched lose everything in Vegas. They complain and complain and complain, when they knew which bets were safe and which were not.
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Honestly, people can do whatever they want. If they feel cleansing totems is useless after the hex breaks (if there was one), that's on them. It's only a problem when people know NOED is a real possibility and then complain about how they don't want to do totems and the devs should nerf NOED on the forums. Just because it's not going to happen if you're aren't willing to even try and counter the perk. Personally, I go by the rule of "If you aren't in danger and you see a totem, cleanse it". Generally I still get about 2-3 gens done and cleanse 2-3 totems a match so I'm not worried about NOED unless literally everyone else did nothing but gens and hide all game or we just can't find the last totem.
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The thing I don't like about totems being an objective is that there is no way to know if all totems have been cleansed. There are no icons, no pop up that says "all totems cleansed", nothing. Unless you're in a SWF, you have no way of knowing unless you yourself cleanse all totems or go around the map checking every possible totem spawn until you find where all of them are/were. It's definitely a gamble to run a perk like NOED, but because DBD on the survivor side is a team based game and you have to rely on other people, it's much more of a gamble for the survivor than the killer. How much time can survivors afford to waste going around the map checking totem spawns? Can every solo queue survivor in every game afford to go around the entire map checking totem spawns and cleansing? I'm just posing these questions as a way to sort of see how you guys think about the totems and how we interact with them. I'm not making any arguments for or against cleansing or NOED, or whatever strategies people use in their games to counter hex perks in general.
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There shouldn't be a notification. This is a horror game after all. Honestly the game would be a lot scarier if they got rid of a lot of things like Hex notifications.
Imagine seeing people start going down with single attacks midway through the game. It'd be an "Wait... what's happening??? Oh ######### it's DH!" kinda moment.
All the information the game is feeding you really takes you out of the horror immersion of the game.
Honestly I'm surprised NOED gets complained about so much. I bring small game every match and pretty much never get hit with NOED. I do bones(yay free points!), help my teammates, and do gens. Escape around 70% of the time. I'm not even that good at the game but I'm not a complete potato that 90% of the playerbase seems to be.
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I agree, a Totem counter which shows how many are cleansed would be a welcome addition.
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Small game.
I went out of my way to cleanse all 5 totems, I prevented a Devour Hope from maturing and NOED from ever coming up. Was worth it. 10/10 would do it again.
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Well as long as totems stand, there would be a constant anxiety around whether or not some unforeseen curse might befall a survivor, but that kind of falls short if, for example, you have a SWF who cleansed all totems, even without a counter or tracker. I understand your point, though. The horror aspect of the game is very important. And I also understand your argument for NOED, but that's your personal experience that you're basing your arguments off of. If so many people are complaining about perks like NOED, I think it might speak to some sort of fundamental design flaw in either the perk itself or the way that totems work in some way. Again, not arguing for or against, I'm just throwing around ideas and whatnot.
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The reason why NOED works so well in solo queue is because survivors are too selfish. Too focused on just doing gens. You see it all the time. Those people who post posts like "I did 3-4 gens myself while my team didn't do any". What they don't realise is that the team is taking pressure off that player himself so he can sit there and mindlessly do gens. And then they'll cry the team didn't try to save him and let him die on first hook without realising that the team are all on death hook and you could've given your own hook states to relieve pressure from your team so when you are hooked at end game, the team will have hook states left to rescue you. Message to solo queue survivors, get the ######### off gens and help your team. I will go the ######### out of my way to keep the killer off the rando who's on death hook being chased by the killer.
Also, unless I have a teammate running Inner Strength(super rare in itself) I always find myself doing all 5 totems. SoloQ survivors will absolutely just not touch totems at all for whatever the ######### reason.
And if a noed does activate because the team did gens faster than I thought they could, I will stick around and try to find that noed totem. Most people will just leave when noed hits. Some dumbasses will hookbomb for the save and go down to noed. 90% of the time if the killer gets someone down, they're going to camp them. Lots of time to freely search the map for the totem, especially if its first hook.
Another selfish thing is DCs/suicides. Suiciding/DCing because of noed prevents that ---^ up there from happening. Hang on, I'll try to get that totem and we'll save you. Suiciding because of camp? Well, you pretty much just killed your entire team. DCing because you were the first one to go down? How ######### sad of a person must you be?
Another major problem with survivors in general, not just soloQ, is they refuse to accept responsibility. I routinely randomly watch random streamers and whatever streamers happen to appear in my games. They run right into me after getting unhooked? I "tunneled" them. I hook them, chase someone else across the map and hook them, then as I'm patrolling gens, find them again and down and hook them again? They got "tunneled" or "camped". I routinely walk past my hex totem as protection while patrolling gens and I see you on it 3 times in a row and end up killing you? No I'm not tunneling you, just be smarter about cleansing the totem. You get unhooked a second after I hook you and the unhooker hides instead of trying to protect you? Sorry bro, I'm going to down you. I might not hook you again and just slug you but your teammate is ######### you there, not me.
######### survivors whine and complain about the most stupid ######### but refuse to improve themselves. Instead of learning to make smart saves and using the most out of the minute between hook states, they'll continue hook bomb and bring borrowed time so they can hook bomb safer. Instead of improving their looping skills, these ######### survivors rely on the exhaustion perks waaay too much. Instead of improving their stealth and looping skills, they'll run right in the killers face and go down immediately and complain about "tunneling". They'll complain about NOED "rewarding the killer for being bad" when in reality it's "rewarding the killer for the survivors being bad ". Like I've posted in the forums before, so many red rank survivors I've seen from streaming are just so bad at the game. They literally have no idea how many things in the game work it's ######### astounding.
Point is, a lot of ######### killer tactics only work because the survivors let them. It's not even about there being a "totem counter". The players shouldn't be handfed information just to try to incentivize them to do things. It'll only further discourage the players from actually trying to get better.
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Yeah me and my friend run duos. Usually get all 5 totems, do our fair share of gens, and also run killers around for minutes at a time. Its legitimately not that hard to do and perks like small game and detectives hunch make finding them all ridiculously easy. We often don't even run those perks and have a fair amount of success finding all 5.
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I think perhaps we should stray from generalizing one side or the other. I wanna keep this as civil and friendly as possible! Though I completely understand where you're coming from. And I don't really want to turn this into a big discussion about NOED specifically, because it's just as much about Undying and Ruin and all other hex perks, but I think perks like NOED take advantage of the lack of information that survivors have individually, as killers should have. But to what extent should that apply to solo survivors? I understand lots of people can be selfish, both killer and survivor, but without assuming that a certain demographic of players is inherently unskilled, greedy or unhelpful, I think there needs to be more productive discussion on how the game can be more fairly balanced so that killers remain very powerful while not putting people who aren't in a group at a heavy disadvantage.
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Better safe than dead. Also if you pay close enough attention to the killer during a match you can identify if they have noED or not. If you get effected by 4 killer perks its obvious all their slots are full and there's no NoED.
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Doing totems in 2021? Thats a literal crime right there. Honestly though those people that don't do totems are the same people who call noed OP or needs a nerf.
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I do bones for the extra points, i dont go out my way to find them but if i do come across one i'll pop it wether its lit or not.
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The idea that anyone would be able to keep this mental map in their head is positively insane. I mean, maybe some people can, but damn, I think that is a minority!
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I just played a game in the last hour where I cleansed at least 3 or 4 bones (wasn’t keeping score, maybe all 5) and managed to escape as the sole survivor through the hatch even though all of the gens were done. Afterwards I discovered that the killer was running NOED, and I got hit once after the gates were powered. So speaking as a guy that ONLY survived because I did bones, I can verify that it isn’t a worthless exercise. Not by a long shot!
What’s amazing though is that I wasn’t even running small game like I usually do and just kept stumbling upon them mostly by accident!
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That's all well and good but the token rework suggestions do still benefit the killer in the same way of how many bones were completed. Some games that obscure totem is not found and noed exists infinitely. Your suggestion won't work because the whole premise of noed is the fact it's also backed up by camping and an impossible save. This is a deterrent, it's anticlimatic and not what dbd is about.
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Small game is not worth it once you get to the level that noed is hardly used. The perk has such a high pickrate low/mid rank because it is strong there undoubtedly. People complain about it because it's unfun. Those games where you can't find the hex in time and watch the killer stand in front of the hook. You can't trade 1 for 1 it's either feed or leave. Surely new players want more interaction than that if they're to stay playing dbd.
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A couple of things:
- This thread isn't about camping. There are plenty of those for you to vent your spleen on.
- There is no such thing as an impossible save; you just don't know to do it yet. People get saved from the hook from right under the nose of a face-camping Killer every day. Please don't assume that because YOU can't do it, that it is't possible.
- I think it is hilarious that you are telling us what DbD is "about" when clearly you don't know many things. Tell us o'wise one, what is DbD about? The rest of us being ignorant need you to lift the veil from our eyes.
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extremely underrated perk.
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I do this all the time.
I also have a survival rate of about 20% so you can make your own conclusion on how effective a strategy it is.
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"Just do bones" is an over simplification of a complex process.
Too many variables to claim it is a great hard and fast rule.
"doing bones" is particularly detrimental to the newer plays who see NOED most often.
Newer players don't know totem spawns. They're absolutely ######### if they "do bones" during the match, and can only find 4 totems. NOED is going to spawn in that hard-to-find location and will never be cleansed because new survivors have zero idea where that totem could possibly be. At least it has a 20% chance of spawning in broad daylight if no totems are cleansed during the match.
Better advice would be to tell survivors to check on any totems they know are nearby, immediately after the last gen pops.
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Rushing through gens is better than cleansing totems in most circumstances. The only time you should cleanse dull totems in solo queue is if the killer isn't doing a good job, but even then I'd recommend just rushing gens. If you're playing a against a good killer that is applying a lot of pressure, you shouldn't be on totems!
If you rush gens, at endgame you're likely to have less people on deathhook and can always find NOED once its activated. You also have the possibility of escaping, rather than having 2 gens done, 2 survivors dead and wondering what went wrong.
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Really not happy with your response. You'll get nothing further from me.
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Not worth it? It’s good to warn against Trapper and Hag traps, too.
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Yeah I'd say so. I barely see it in my games and never use it myself. Just much better options imo.
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I love NOED because it punish only bad and lazy survivors, and they never deserve to escape in the first place.
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You don't hunt all 5 totems every match yourself, you are a "TEAM" people keep saying this, doesn't matter if you are all on a 4 man swf or all solos. some of you take totems out and others do gens then you swap. run to a gen! hey there is a totem here let me take it down. OH there is a nasty hiding spot for a totem! oh yea it's lit lets take it down! you do that, do gens, rescues what not. IF NOED is triggered it's not one person's fault! it's EVERYONE's fault for not PAYING attention. the term DO BONES is not singular in target but for everyone that doesn't. with 4 people, everyone takes one totem down it adds 12-15 seconds to your time to do a gen. one person does a second and all 5 are done! Easy peasy! don't worry too much... I ran today with the mission of getting 20 totems down (challenge). on hawkin's lab I ran a hallway, and there were 3 totems in a line. i had just taken one down up near the solo achievement gen then dropped down and followed small game down a hallway and I had 4 of the 5 totems down in about 1.5 minutes. yes that is lucky but sometimes it's like that.
"DO BONES" doesn't say drop everything and take em all down! just do them as you see them and maybe you'll have all 5 down and noed doesn't trigger, devour doesn't get more than 1 or 2 tokens... same with lullaby... this is the problem, people don't think more than hey lets get this match done in 6 minutes and move on to the next.... it's a sad state, and one born of lethargy and lazyness after years of playing.
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Can we please keep this civil and friendly? I want us all to have a discussion and not insult fellow fog dwellers. I understand some people might have differing opinions, but it doesn't call for sarcasm or accusatory comments.
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For the most part, I wasn't being sarcastic, except for the end. It is merely pet peeve of mine when people who don't really know or understand the game yet, are going to instruct us on its meaning. It is arrogant and more than a bit condescending. What I did was give the person a direct, honest wake up about what he/she had done. There really wasn't a nice way to put it that would have driven the point home. I think I was very civil, all things considered. The blade only cut deep because what I said was true.
The only other thing I could have done would have been to adopt my kind, grandfatherly, wise voice, but that would have been just as condescending and arrogant as the post I answered. What I did instead, was state facts and invite the poster to enlighten us and prove that he does understand DbD better. If he had, I would have happily eaten crow.
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