I have a solution to fixing NOED
In my opinion, NOED is such a huge problem and is very unhealthy for the game. This perk is by no means one of the best in the game and that's not the issue with this perk. The issue with NOED is that it's a bail-out perk for the killer and rewards the killer for playing badly. I can think of plenty of much better killer perks that aren't an issue. I think Whispers is a perfect example of that. Whispers is one of the best perks in the game if not the greatest, however, you never see anyone complain about it because it's a perk that rewards the killer for having good awareness, game sense, and game knowledge instead of bailing out bad killers that end up getting one kill against a survivor who's done well throughout the whole match, gets smacked with NOED, and gets frustrated because they know they didn't deserve to die.
So how exactly do we fix this? I think NOED should become a perk that rewards killers for playing well throughout the match but just couldn't stop the gens from getting done. I think that for every survivor that is on death hook at end game, they should have the exposed status effect for the remainder of end game. A buff to compensate would be to not make it a hex perk. Keep the haste status effect as well.
I'm not sure if this change will immediately end the complaints people have with this perk, but it will certainly be one step in the right direction. Tell me what you all think of this. Is this idea good or bad? I'd love to know y'all's thoughts.
Comments
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I like your solution however I don't think people would ever run it. I like it probably cos I'm a firm believer that it's unhealthy for the game also. It's not a perk designed for good players. The inherit problem of 'just do bones' is that the perk isn't good high level. People actually do the bones. SWF do the bones. Therefore, you see noed one in 10 games and it's whatever does not help the killer much.
At low/mid ranks is where it shines. And shine bright it does like a puckered butthole in the sky shining a bright beam into your eyes. You can't expect the new player to do bones and make it to endgame. It's purely up to chance if they find the hex in time or not for their teammate to die. That is why it's very mundane to deal with because a totem spawn that the killer has no control over has determined the end game for everybody. Then theres the games the survivors do well and all collapse at the end due to faster killer with instadown cos we made it to endgame. Endgame should be intense but this is not the way to do it and I'm sure they will retain more players after the next chapter releases if it got a rework that better reflects the intergrity of the game.
The best idea I've seen so far is to make a token system reflective of dull totems + hex totems remaining on the map. perhaps make them all hex's. Each totem equals a token which is consumed upon each down they get. This appeases the people who don't want the change because it will stop people cleansing dulls as well as remaining a strong end game last stand from the killer. The whole premise of it being infinite is what makes people leave people to die when there should be so much more game left to game. This idea makes it possible to juggle the hook if you have enough hooks left (ie survivor has done well) and allows the killer to close out a game if people are on their last hook (killer has performed well). People who dispute that and continue to say 'just do bones' either use it themselves or haven't read my argument about its effect on low rank trials.
tl;dr You cannot rely on low rank players to do bones which is where the perk has it's higher pickrate. Saying just do bones is as ignorant as saying OoO statistically is balanced because of escape rate across all matches.
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I think NOED is fine and there are other perks that are seriously unhealthy for the game that need to be looked at.
Whispers is an amazing perk and I have had people complain I found them with it :P
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It is different than OoO.
What you are saying is that essentially, experienced players know how to play around it and completely deny the Killer from using it but newer players do not. That isn't a problem. Newer players also can't loop as well as experienced one's, should we give them a handicap? No, of course not, because they will learn as they play and they will improve.
OoO is a fine perk when taken with the Solo Q perspective, but is gets nutty when you bring SWF into the mix. It offers an extremely powerful effect for Survivors with zero downsides.
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Imaging saying Noed is an issue comment made by a Detectives Hunch gamer. Cleansing all 5 bones per game since it popped on the Shrine.
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An argument on lower ranks is that Detective's Hunch is behind a paywall new players can't really afford while NOED isn't. They also lack the experience to know the true value of DH and Tapp doesn't bring other valuable perks to the table. For someone starting the game, resources are limited.
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If you're going to nerf NOED because you think it rewards bad playing, then you should also be making compliant threads asking to nerf DS, Dead Hard and Keys. They all reward survivors for playing poorly.
The Devs have repeatedly stated that NOED is fine.
It punishes lazy survivors for not cleansing totems.
If it was nerfed then survivors would have less of a reason for cleansing dull totems, which they hardly do these days.
If the killer was bad and had to rely on NOED to get a kill, then the survivors should have had an easy time wasting the killers time by looping them long enough to do the gens and cleanse totems.
If the killer was so good that you had no time to do totems, then you were just out matched.
You don't have to cleanse all 5 totems to get rid of NOED, just can cleanse the ones you notice that are in hard to find spots or just remember where they are. After the last gen pops, go back to the ones out in the open to check if it is lit.
You can stealth at the start of the match and look for totems. I personally do this and find 3 totems by the time two gens pop in less than three minutes. I know, I can rush a gen instead, but I like my games to last more than 4/5 minutes.
You can bring a map, small game or detectives hunch to counter totems.
In the end, the fault for getting hit by NOED is totally in the hands of survivors. The survivor role is a team role with an option to be solo, so the fault for it lies on the whole group. It isn't OP or unfair, you and anyone else who complains about it are just whining to make the game easier for you.
If you nerf NOED, which isn't even used all that often, I guarantee you that we will only get longer queue times and face the same Nurse, Spirit, Blight and Freddies over and over. I rather not have that.
Imagine if killers could cleanse totems and remove your exhaustion perks, unbreakable, DS, or even the ability to heal. You would all riot.
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JUST CLEANSE THE TOTEM GUD DAMMIT...
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"Imagine if killers could cleanse totems and remove your exhaustion perks, unbreakable, DS, or even the ability to heal. You would all riot."
These days. I think the term for crowds of people causing mass destruction is called "Peaceful Protesting" :P
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Ok first off I never said I didn’t have complaints about Dead Hard, D Strike and keys. They’re all issues and I’m aware of that. I was just stating my idea I have for fixing NOED. There’s no need for you to make assumptions about me favoring one side over the other because I really don’t. FYI, I play both sides almost equally and maybe a little more of killer, but I do have a good understanding of survivor as well.
You’re argument for countering NOED is “do the bones.” Unless you have Detective’s Hunch, going out of your way to find 5 totems that have potential to spawn in nasty spots is way too much to ask for. Especially since you’re cleansing 5 totems to hopefully counter a perk that the killer may or may not even have. Comms can do it easier than solos obviously, but not everyone plays in comms, so that’s just yet another disadvantage solo queue survivors have.
One of the many issues of NOED is that the survivors have no way of knowing the killer has it until a survivor is affected by it. So as I said, cleansing totems at the start of the match just to counter NOED is not a reliable counter because for all you know, you could be wasting time doing totems instead of gens and the only reward you get from dull totem cleansing is bloodpoints (and Inner Strength if you have it I guess) if the killer doesn’t have NOED.
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I personally dont think NOED is a problem, i play about a 50/50 split. I don't typically run it as i would rather have 4 perks, however i definitely wouldnt want to see it changed unless they fix matchmaking first. When i do run it, its generally when I (a rank 13 killer) am getting regularly matched with red rank survivors that i really dont have a chance against anyways.
First off it does not reward you for playing badly, i really wish people would stop saying this, once it activates you still need to find and chase people for it to be effective, so you still have to play well with it or you get nothing. It can also be completely negated by doing totems (even though i know no one wants to hear that), and gotten rid of once it activates. Also as a side note with all the nerf NOED posts, where are the cries to nerf infinite tier 3 Myers which essentially has no counterplay, just something to think about.
If it were to be changed based on your suggestion it should activate on everyone if everyone has been hooked once, or on everyone if 1 person is on death hook, i could maybe support that. Requiring death hook on every survivor is too much considering all the 2nd chance perks survivors have at their disposal, especially adrenaline which it is a direct counter to, as sometimes all it takes is one ds and then you dont see that survivor again until endgame and you cant get them on death hook making the perk useless. There is also the issue of if it doesnt affect everyone then what is the counter to adrenaline, i know not everyone runs it, but without NOED in its current form there is no counter to that perk. NOED is the only real 2nd chance perk that a killer gets while survivors have a bunch, especially when a single mistake can essentially cost a killer the whole game (check out this gameplay review that ohtofu did the other day which shows what im talking about, hope im not breaking any rules posting this link https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Kgo6XqjNo )
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You're not supposed to know that the killer has NOED. Just like the killer isn't supposed to know if the survivors have DS, BT or Kindred.
Cleansing totems at the start of the match is a reliable counter. Just like killers not tunneling or camping is a reliable counter to DS or BT. Your reasoning for nerfing NOED because you don't like wasting time because they might not have it is weak. Killers have to do the same when they have to choose between tunneling and risking DS or not tunneling and risking a loss. Killer isn't informed what perks survivors have until after they use it, why should survivors be treated differently.
I don't run any totem finding perks. They are always easy to find, even if they're in a difficult spot, all I have to do is wait for the fifth gen to pop and I could find it by listening for the crackle of fire that indicates that a lit totem is near.
Your idea is flawed because it assumes that NOED needs "fixing" which it does not. You just want it nerfed.
I never said you favored one side over another, this isn't an us vs them. 98 percent of my matches are Solo Survivor and I have no reason to want NOED nerfed and the game made even more brain dead. As things stand, killers need NOED even if it isn't equipped otherwise gens will just continue to fly by, discouraging more killers from playing, causing longer queue times, which we do not need. I look forward to your threads on ideas to fix all the survivor second chance perks to make them more fair to killers!
Again, survivor is a team game, your teammates are also responsible for doing bones. It isn't hard to do if all 4 survivors did 1 at the start of the match and then one of you find the last one while playing regularly.
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"rewards the killer for playing badly"
No, it doesn't.
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Yes it does. Killers that failed to create pressure get a free kill or two even when they don’t deserve it.
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how about fixing keys first, they won't even see noed half the time while they have keys to burn anyways
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Thats like me saying if you cant evade NOED then you dont deserve to escape
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Survivors failed to do their second objective and got punished.
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NOED isn't broken and thus doesn't need fixing. What needs an adjustment is the attitude of Survivors. Just as Killers are gambling with a Perk slot that can be wiped off the map in sixteen seconds, Survivors who choose not to do Totems in favor of more time on Generators are also placing a bet. This game is all about choices.
There are four Survivors. There are only five Totems. Every Survivor spots at least 1-2 Totems as they move around, even when they aren't using a map or Totem-related Perk. If each one takes one out as they go, four of the Totems are already gone. Do you see my point? The fact that SURVIVORS choose not to do this, is on them. So I repeat, there is nothing wrong with NOED; there is something wrong with the attitude towards cleansing Totem OBJECTIVES. :)
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NOED is fine. It only activates when the last gen is done anyway. This means for most of the trial, the killer is running 3 perks and effectively gimping themselves.
The solution is to do bones.
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Borrowed Time rewards Survivors for playing badly because they get an unhook when they don't deserve it.
Decisive Strike rewards Survivors for playing badly because they get a free save when they don't deserve it.
Sprint Burst rewards Survivors for playing badly because they get speed boost when they don't deserve it.
Adrenaline rewards Survivors for playing badly because they get a free health state when they don't deserve it.
I can play this game all day, man.
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I have a way to fix noed make it so it you break totems noeds destroyed. So many people complain about this perk and nerf this that or the other it’s just a joke and why I stopped posting on the forums. Yes I play killer without noed but don’t care if people run it when I’m survivor cause I actually wait a minute break the totems I see. I ran into a few noeds tonight and the injured person already bein chased was the only death in one of those games cause I broke omg totems. If you think it’s a waste of time then your also the reason undying and ruin shouldn’t have been nerfed. Have fun in the game don’t just think you have to only do gens or if you die to noed then enjoy your gen game and yes I do play solo a lot and still don’t cry like a 12 year old over noed.
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exacta mundo does bones where he pleases
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That is exactly the problem. It's the inverse of OoO. Strictly speaking of balance noed is fine. OoO is not.
I'm purely speaking in terms of fun and interaction at low rank games which comes down to player retention which is undeniably an issue with this game. The stat's don't lie. I don't want noed fully gone but a rework is definitely in order. You cannot expect low rank to cleanse totems and be punished for doing the main objective. Introducing a token system for noed related to remaining totems is a way that will incentivise players to not leave and try to make the save because it isn't infinite use.
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It's not hard to get a hit with the bloodlust part of noed. You're almost tier 1 bloodlust before the chase has started. It takes seriously good setups to not go down to a competent user of noed.
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