Will MMR ruin the game for the high level play?
So mmr concerns me, if been playing since release so my knowledge and skill are pretty high as both roles but if the people I verse/have on my team are my skill wont it be boring and bland? I'm not going to see weaker killers, just the 3 odd top tier ones and when playing killer you'll just see the meta always used on everyone. Honestly if this ends up being true I'll just quit, I play because of the range of killers and perks, without that its going to get boring fast
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From what I got from your post: You think you are an elite player, but hate playing against other elite players and like to play against weaker killers/survivors because that's what is fun to you. Also - hate to break it to you, but not all top-tier players run meta perks/builds.
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ermmm soo maybe dont play meta anymore and play properly?
then because you dont have the meta carrying you you will lose some matches and therefor be put in a lower MMR rating and thus get matches against less try hard players and all will be well?
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Nope, just versing spirit and nurse all day would be boring. I dont mind any killer at all just actually want to verse all the killers, some need to be buffed tbh but the game would be boring with such little killers. And not all but most people do. I want range of perks and killers to be seen not lack of them, if I only see 3 killers out of all of them that's a big issue
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I personally dont use meta perks, just seem them alot when versing good killers/survivors. But I understand you wouldn't want killers to use gen defense but yano not gonna happen at high ranks.
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It will only ruin it for good solo q players if it works how it did last time, by pairing you with rank 20 team mates.
If it comes back the same I’ll just get the rest of my adept killers and maybe even become a killer main
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The thing is that if mmr works properly they can easier see which killers need help and which don't
Now it's hard to give weaker killers a buff cause of how they can usually exploit a weak link in the chain and still win.
Once they see that when everybody is on the same skill level only 3 killers are played at the top changes will come
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I played 12 hours yesterday (special stream) and faced the following rank 1-3 killers:
Doctor x2
Nurse x2
Hag (was either 2 or 3 times I forget)
Clown
Spirit
Wraith x2
Oni x2
Cannibal x3
Freddy x2
Executioner
Ghostface x3
Twins
I played from Noon EST to Midnight - only thing I noticed was - rank is meaningless because frankly I beat the rank 1's more often than the rank 2 or 3's. Skill is not indicated by rank. I played against a rank 7 Cannibal the other day who ended the match in less than 3 minutes and got a 4k. MMR is about skill not rank - if anything you will see more killers who may not be your rank, but will actually give you a challenge.
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I dont think a survivor of killer is ever good when the run/rely on meta perks to carry them tbh.
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Killer is pretty easy right now though, alot of people dont know loops etc. I mean iv seen ranks 2s with no knowledge of loops and can't look behind in chases but I hope its not like last time. But at least the new killers will have their own ranks meaning easier adepts (but would high rank survivors see the new killers much or will they need to wait for them to climb in skill?)
Well I'm hoping that they will, honestly only keep playing for the range of killers etc. You see, as a horror fan I love seeing it all and the different play styles keep me interested. So I hope you're right
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I agree rank means nothing atm but that's my point, if you're good you wont go against these bad rank 1s for example you'll only go against the better killers which will more likely be nurse spirit. I just dont wanna not see certain killers, buff them by all means but I already hardly see 50% of killers, haven't seen a demo in what feels like forever. I personally play them all but alot dont so I dont wanna miss out on seeing them, would make it boring to only verse the same few killers. The range of killers make it fun.
Maybe not but certain perks can help alot none the less, while some perks require you to use them well some dont. And high skilled player (people that can actually loop) become alot stronger if they're use perks like DH. I dont mind the perk and dont want it changed, I'm just saying it can help alot and its be boring to see meta every game. And like most games meta at high ranks becomes so very common even if a few dont use them the majority do
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I never said which were bad/good players. You are the one who seems hung up on two killers. It seems your issue is with those killers and not the matchmaking system. I can list 6 other killers I see regularly that have proven to me they are way worse than the spirit or nurse. Generally speaking - I survive more often against a nurse/spirit than I do a Bubba/Pig.
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I don't think it's going to work, but if it does, it'll be pretty annoying. I don't want to have to run the very same builds every match and play my heart out to get two kills. Same for survivor. Going against spirit every game is likely gonna suck.
But hey, until more people play killer, I seriously doubt any matchmaking change will matter. It'll still have the same issue. If I am constantly against very good survivors, I'll probs just stop playing my better killers. Not because I want to stomp every game, but because a balance of some very hard games and some more average games are a nice mix.
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This makes logical sense and I sure hope that's their intention with MMR. But even so, it's gonna be a long time before they'll be able to gather all that data and make changes accordingly (assuming they interpret the data correctly in the first place...)
Until then, OP is right that high MMR will be much less diverse and fun imo. I hope he's wrong.
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I doubt that you would only vs the only like 3 meta killers every game. There aren't that many mains to the point where you would play let's say 50 games and get 50 of those killers. You'll always meet some off the weaker killers played by good players along the way who enjoy them and can do well with them even vs good survivor teams.
And if it became a problem, just play solo for a while and your MMR will drop so that you can face other fun killers besides the meta ones. If you'll only keep on winning and winning, well then you'll face players who also only win and win each game.
I don't see how could that become a problem. Some killers are already much more popular then other so in the end even now it depends on RNG which killers you get.
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Ds and bt are used and needed alot in red rank because red ranks proxy a whole lot and if you run into the same killer over and over and they know you don't have bt or ds they jump on it like pig slop to get that sweet sweet 3v1. That's about all you'll see repetition of really.
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It would imho. If it's gunna change to that. then you'll only face actual good survivors that can make you rip your hair off, And with them only running Meta perks just to achieve this... in a 4 man, it's just bout unwinnable even with Nurse,
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Well bubba is easy and so is pig, there powers aren't that strong but if your team waste pallets against a bubba then yeah he's stronger but in general that's it, pig is rng traps and her dash etc. Suck, I have no issues with any killer I love versing them all and have never wanted nerfs to happen, even the spirit and nurse ones, just nurse and spirits are stronger at high skill. Basic M1 have nothing compared to those two if you know the safe spots to stand at etc. Not saying they're op because they're arent just stronger and obviously more top tier. Escaping is team effort not solo.
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Think of it like this:
Should that happen, Spirit might get an overhaul. If MMR works as it should, and you get a massive killrate throughout all rank with her, she'll probably get a nerf as it would show that regardless of skill level, getting 4ks in is 'easy' with her, meaning something is unbalanced.
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I always play solo though, and before the rank reset and ruin changes near every game was spirit and nurse but since those changes more player have hit red rank than ever before. And I do agree you will see others but even at this state where rank means nothing I haven't seen killers like pig, hag, demo etc in weeks so when rank means something then I'll see them even less is my point
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Spirit is fine though, my issue isn't eith the killers it's the idea I wont verse those which are weaker. I think it's fair to say they're stronger then most but that's because the others are weaker and need the buffs even if its something small to each one, like clown for example. Imo no killer is needing nerds and nothing should be an easy 4k, easy 4ks exist atm because ranks mean very little. Just wanna keep seeing all killers and ranges of perks
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I think your concern is valid. For the true top end Survivors it should become very rare to face Killers like Myers or Trapper after a while.
Obviously the stronger Killers used by the stronger players will have a higher MMR than the low tier Killers, they will just win more matches and more decisively.
For example, against a good Survivor team, a low tier Killer will never ever get a 5gen 4k whereas this is definately doable for great Spirit, Nurse or even insane Billy masters. We don´t know yet which metrics the new MMR will take into consideration, but I think it´s not too far fetched that Kills+Gens remaining may factor into it.
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If I only played against Nurse/Spirit i would quit, but since I'm a terrible survivor this change would actually help me lol
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That's the core issue with DBD:
Too little objectives if you get down to it. A lot of high ranks (including big streamers and fogwhisperers, too) push the idea that you MUST get 4ks in, respectively that chases are the only 'fun' thing to do in the game.
And that won't change till the game's mechanics change to encourage different playstyles.
Till then we have to deal with nerfs that make it harder to get a quick 4k in so those players will try something new.
I mean... this is a game where people are baffled when you play without the 'standard' builts and do well.
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There are good huntress,billy, blights sometimes oni as well its not always gonna be nurse /spirit
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If you constantly face Nurse/Spirit and lose consistently. Then you will fall in (mmr) rank where you would no longer face Nurse/Spirit.
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Yes as bubba I focus more on not hitting the wall than the survivor because I'll often just hit them anyway and if they mess up and dont stun me they gotta find another pallet quick
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Really depends on how it's implemented. If they're just going off of straight wins and losses and treating forever Freddy/Iri Head Huntress/general ultra rare add on wins as equal to zero slowdown no add on Nurse wins for example, then the system is trash out of the gate.
Anybody can 4k with 4 slowdowns and ultra rares in pubs. Especially since crossplay came about. That doesn't make someone a good player. I could see instances where actual skilled killers have lower MMR because they're chilling but still getting 3 or 4ks with maybe one slowdown and yellow or brown add ons.
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If MMR works like it is supposed to, the top gamers will VS each other.
If there are not enough top players to VS each other, the search will expand.
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I think the hidden MMR is just going to make things worse and more toxic. Now I'll at least get the rare SWF group apologizing for the mismatch, but after the change it's going to be toxic town until BHVR and DBD are no more.
I do hope the MMR makes things better, but I am not optimistic.
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God i hope it does.
Sadly survivors pay the bills so they will twist this hidden "mmr" for the best survivor experience.
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I can think of nothing more boring in this game than being stuck in a high MMR.
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No change in MM could make it worse for top tier players, because it's already rock bottom and basically any deviation has to be towards a better state.
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Listen to what you just said. The op is about HIGH LEVEL PLAY right? If all you'll face is NURSE & SPIRIT, shouldn't that say killers need to be buffed BECAUSE those are the only two you'll consistently see at peak performance?
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I think it will. The game is way less fun when either side is playing sweaty.
I foresee getting high MMR as a killer meaning that you only play against Unbreakable/DS/Dead Hard/BT, potentially only those that play SWF with other good players.
And I foresee getting high MMR as a survivor meaning that all your games will only be Nurse/Spirit/Freddy and some bis addon spammers like Iri Head Huntress and Topknot Oni. 4x slowdown perks and very little laid back, nice play (not that many killers do this right now, anyway).
Of course, this is the worst case scenario (it also assumes the devs don't balance for high MMR) and I'm hoping MMR ends up being very loose. Either way, I think MMR is going to have a rough time matching people in appropriate skill ranges with how big the disparity in people playing each side is during peak times.
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MMR has a chance of working if more people start readying up to play killer. Otherwise to avoid longer queue times you'll get a top % rank 1 team of survivors going against a decent rank 8 killer who even though they're good at a the game they're just not at the top % level and then they'll stop playing and it will get worse from there. The only chance is if the MMR change gets people to try killer again because I think a lot don't try because of the matchmaking. But honestly with more people playing survivor even if it works I doubt you'd get a rank 1 spirit/nurse every match because there aren't enough to go around.
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I can see a lot of survivors killing themselves end game and lots of hatch giving if they base it off kills/escapes.
It's pretty depressing that the metrics are being hidden - it's not like they'll remain private knowledge forever.
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If MMR works properly and the game is balanced more or less within reason, it will not ruin the game.
Proper MMR working means that only good players will be matched with good players. While bad players will be matched with bad players. That means the matches will be more fair in general.
A lot of the complaints people have in this game, is most because either or both of those conditions are not true (MMR doesn't work, game is not balanced properly).
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Don't you killer mains ever get tired of this rhetoric?
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Well you see I do believe alot of killers need tweaks to make them stronger and I'm all for it, Escaping has never meant anything to me but I'll always max the other 3 categories. For me the chase is the best thing and I'm good at it, I'm not perfect but I'm good at it so if everyone is my skill I wont see certain killers because they're so weak. I also tend to avoid grouping up with all strong players as it's too easy and you kinda depip while Escaping lol.
Yeah that's the idea, but most killers can only do so much with loops and map pressure except those few top tiers so I'm hoping the devs balance around with the mmr, I dont want easy survivor games because its be boring, I wanna see all killers too so some will needs buffs etc. I just want the game fun, interesting and balanced. However the fun and interesting part comes alot from different situations with killers, loops and perks so if it's just a few killers and the same perks I'll probably drop the game after 4 years, it has to be fun and feel rewarding for both sides no matter what's perks or killer you use
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Nothing will change no matter how good the MMR works. Until bhvr addresses the real issue (killer numbers) then the system will just expand matchmaking and we have exactly what we have now. bhvr already knows this and it’s a huge reason they are hiding MMR. Guys please open your eyes to what they are doing.
they aren’t actually changing anything, just hiding the result 🧐
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Top MMR Killer vs. Top MMR Survivor won't work unless you play Nurse or Spirit and even then, you have to play flawless.
The only reason Killers have a chance is because of bad Survivors. On top MMR you are supposed to vs. people of your skill level, meaning you are supposed to play vs tournament squads and very efficient Survivors.
I can tell you what will.happen, Killers will purposely drop in MMR or stop playing Killer once they reach high MMR because all Killers except 2 can't compete against the top Survivors.
I really hope MMR won't work as intended.
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I honestly don't think there will be an MMR, I also believe the last time they released the MMR I saw so many matches go to inexperienced killers vs experienced survivors or vice versa. I think they just turned off match making for that time and with the radio silence about it once again (actually it's less talk about it) I don't have high expectations.
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The only fun killer that will be played at high mmr is probably blight.
i doubt there will be any Billy’s, overheat and no charge time addons neutered his playability versus top tier players.
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Its a band aid solution since the game is inherently too fast in its current state, necessitating meta perks for consistency. MMR plans to address this by leveling the "skill" playing field, but that would be less necessary if a killer didnt lose the game in the first 30 seconds if they guess the wrong opening gen.
Go play in reds for 5 games as killer and tell me you can get those wins without having some meta build. You slow the game down a little for survivors and suddenly tons of things become more viable. The game is just not really fun rn imo. Too fast, too sweaty. Slow everyone down for all I care and maybe I can enjoy some of the diverse and interesting perks a little better on either side
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MMR will not change anything if they still have that rule where a high rank player gets matched up with lower ranked ones because of waiting times. Then we'll just have the same system problems with different ranking.
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Do we know when they will release MMR again? I guess we have to wait and see how it goes this time with everything.
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Honestly, I don't know what to expect from re-introducing MMR. First attempt was a shame.
The idea of having a separate MMR for each killer maybe good for the beginners, but I am concerned about the higher ranks.
Let's say (and this is true), I have 1 900 hours in the game playing Killer and Survivor. I am rank 2 now and I still have Wraith at level 1. You can imagine,
I know how M1 killers work. When I decide to level up and play Wraith, how long would it take for me to play against current Rank 20th?
Would that be fun for me to slaughter baby-megs 20 matches in a row before I get matched with more experienced survivors? Would that be fun for baby-megs to be slaughtered by red rank killer?
As a killer, I like to play dirty, I want the survivors to suffer and feel pain, but I want to do this for more experience players, who got used to this gameplay.
My steam profile is full of hate toxic comments and I enjoy this and encourage people to leave a comment on steam in the post game chat.
I feel really bad when I have tunneled a new player. I don't enjoy this.
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Every concern about MMR is premature. Last time it was implemented, it literally paired beginners against veterans with thousands of hours.
It's a hidden mechanic and they won't tell us how it works. So, they can even make matchmaking entirely based off some very general stats, like logged hours as and against certain killers (after all, the system has been collecting info in the background for months on end) and we won't be able to know the difference and if it's working or not. Add to that the usual overriding criteria of waiting time and ping, and BHVR can simply wrap it up by telling us "yep, it's working great, fellas! Nothing to worry about! Enjoy your fair and balanced trials!"
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I think some killers suffer more from this than others. A god tier Nurse or maybe even Spirit could win perkless, hell even with perkless Blight its possible to win more than 90% of all matches, but most other killers without combined mobility and lethality are way more likely to require at least decent perks even as a good killer vs average survivors.
The main problem is the big difference in efficiency between the killers, not gens going too fast in general. If you were to slow down the game for everyone then killers like Nurse/Spirit/Blight would dominate even more, the real problem is that too many killers are simply too slow at what they do vs decent teams, whether in chase or outside of it, although simply giving them extra speed in areas they lack can quickly turn them either oppressive, or be small enough to avoid exactly that, just to end up being meaningless which is why balancing some killers is harder than it may seem at first.
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MMR system isn't even going to work properly in the first place. Anyways did you play in high rank when it was literally nurse and billy every single game a few years ago.. Now there is more killers that can be played in red rank than ever before.
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