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Arbritary cooldowns and perk restrictions and how they limit the meta and players.

Maelstrom10
Maelstrom10 Member Posts: 1,922
edited February 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

So many killer and survivor perks, on both sides have a lot of arbritary or confining restrictions that stop them from being able to be used in a lot of builds. The most common perks on both sides, have rather simplistic buffs, or effects that can either be activated easily, or activated during regular gameplay.

Trial of torment upon release had such restrictions, being capped at 16s. making it expire on a down or upon a generator regressing fully opened it up for so much use its not even funny. it's probably one of the most popular stealth perks in the game now, alongside tinkerer, dark devotion and insidious. it's perk effect isn't even considered incredibly strong or "meta" right now, but by ridding it of its set "timer" its gained a lot more usage expecially since it plays into the regular gameplay loop of traditionally kicking a generator you want to regress before searching for another survivor

There are so many other perks with restrictions that limit their usage, that if they were simply taken away, the perk would suddenly be so much more viable and useable, to the point of opening up and expanding the meta more. the devs have said, that they don't nessecarily want to nerf "meta" perks. and i agree with that.

Another example. detectives hunch used to only work on generators you yourself had finished. now it works on every gen (same with dark sense or deja vu.) and suddenly a lot more players are able to use these perks in their builds effectively.

Survivor perks actually have the least conditions these days, as most conditions on perks have been lifted over time, and still are being to make them more useable in every day games (most recent being openhanded in the midchapter patch) but there are still some notable outliers.

killer perks have a majority of these restrictions at the moment, which can leave people feeling funneled into singular builds in order to play the best - surge, knock out, franklins demise, Remember me, all only work on basic attacks. infectious fright doesn't, and i see it so so much more often (not just for its powerful effect, but on killers that normally wouldn't even go for such a perk! Exposed effect perks are often utelized only on killers with m1 abilitys, or on killers that would gain great benefit from the exposed effect. no ones traditonally running dragons grip on a blight or legion willingly, as its hard to proc its effects when the majority of your attacks are secondary abilitys. i mean the exposed effect might be going to far but still.

Just. so many perks that could be made so much better, by removing restrictions on their usage situations, which would make the range of builds seen so much more dyanmic. I'll have a list of perks below, that removing their restrictions would allow them to be used in so many more situations, and in many more builds without arguably being made overpowered.

Survivors :

self care - controversial, but the speed decrease on self caring without a medkit. i don't know or think it should be taken away, but with just how many ways and methods there are now to heal without a medkit, and how much better medkits are in terms of speed, 16s without one doesn't seem all that bad any more? Could instead LOCK it to 16s without a medkit disallowing it to be faster, but not outright nerfing its base speed either.

Stake out - cap on tokens.

Sole survivor - only works with dead teammates (standerdising the perk, would make it more useable, tho that would be more a rework ie outside of a certain range, or within a certain range much like open handed)

Left behind - only works when your the last one alive (it does a single thing in showing the hatch within range, like bringing a map is more useful)

technician - gives extra regression for missed skillchecks (players use this perk, because they miss skilchecks, and are essentially penalized for missing them? just make the generator explosion local instead, so instead of being map wide it has to be the killer just hearing the explosion instead.)

vigil - range requirement, along with stacking multiplicatively, and not effecting all statuses

windows of opportunity - deactivates upon throwing a pallet or going through a window even though it already has a range requirement

diversion - cap on pebble

autodidact - can't be used with medkits or on self caring

distortion - 3 tokens max a game (???????!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??) needs a way of activating, or gaining tokens cause this is just arbirtary limitation in a way that harms the perk so much.

mettle of man - shows aura still, despite its very very hefty activation requirement

soldidarity - cannot use medkit with

buckle up - aura intensity is only seen within 48m, even when dying state auras are seen globally?

fixated - (being adjusted in next patch, but currently only works uninjured for walk speed bonus)

cammraderie - only works in struggle phase

second wind - (being adjusted, but its main stopping point isin't) cannot be used with a medkit

Hope - expires after 120s, even though it requires the endgame in order to activate.

No one left behind - should activate after 5 gens, not after an exit gate, due to the current style of 99% exit gate doors, as its hardly ever able to be used. its essentially locked to 2mins worth of it.

-----------------------------------

Killers :

unnerving presence - terror radius perk, that doesn't function all to well due to its range requirement

shadowborn - only increases fov. doesn't stack also (i realise animations would need to be adjusted but like..) like it could just increase the range of aura's or aura

predator - actively can harm scratch mark formation - just make it do like something different tbh like an aura through walls within range, not really within the theme of the thread but still.

bloodhound - same as predator, though atleast it makes blood pools a lot more visible. not really within the theme of the thread but still.

overwhelming presence - also locked to range of terror radius, but might just need some adjustment or lingering like leader

territorial imperitive - activates every 20s, and only when they enter? just make it only when they enter? already has range requirement.

Dying light - complicated to activate, but only really benefits winning. ALSO BUFFS THE OBSESSION. like just make it like thana, and not effect healing, and make it micheal myers one perk that activates on all players and is a non obsession perk. might make it too much like thanataphobia, but honestly, making it only apply post hook sounds fair for the benefits it brings.

beast of prey - only on bloodlust. this can be lost during a chase. could instead activate independantly of bloodlust

Knock out - Only works on basic attacks and doesn't really need the requirement

franklins demise - Only works on basic attacks and doesn't really need the requirement

surge - Only works on basic attacks and doesn't really need the requirement

hex blood favour - Only works on basic attacks and doesn't really need the requirement

remember me - Only works on basic attacks and doesn't really need the requirement

dark devotion - Only works on basic attacks and doesn't really need the requirement

Furtive chase - only works within chase, and is lost on death?????? (this needs rework or adjustment)

Zanshin tactics - deactivates on hit, and has range requirement. (tbh this should be a base perk with zanshin doing something different honestly)

Blood echo - can only be triggered every 45s. exhaustion already caps to the highest thing, so it literally just stops the killer from using this perk and keeping people exhausted if their playing well? it punishes playing well with the perk on, and getting multiple hooks quickly.

Gear head - oh lord this perk. only activates after two BASIC ATTACKS. also only works with skill checks, not even great skill checks, which are random. this perk could be made so much better, by just reworking entirely. make it do something like kicking a generator reveals survivors auras in a range, or like bbq.

Dead mans switch - only activates on the obsession, ok fair enough, but this feels like a perk that should make the hooked survivor the obsession (in order to activate it easier) and have a limit to blocked gens. ironically enough a perk that deserves an easier activation, but more arbriraty requirements in a way.

deathbound - its timer is also an activation timer, and should activate for individually healed survivors, along with multiple people healing.

dragons grip - cooldown is effectively 110s, due to requiring dragons grip to expire first. should just be straight 80s

monsterous shrine - only works on basement hooks? idk needs a different effect, or to work on all hooks. can be difficult enough getting players to the basement with a whole build as it is, and doesn't really give a large enough benefit.

spies from the shadows - cooldown of 5s may not sound like much, but paired with its range requirement, and how you can already just see crows in the distance?. it needs to apply to individual survivors, or have one of its requirements removed and the other increased if that makes sense.

unrelenting - only effects missed attacks. ok this doesn't have weird activation requirements, this just kinda is a suffering perk.

insidious - activates when standing still. this perk literally is made for camping, and takes you away from the standard gameplay of the game, and can actively harm your gameplay for taking it and trying to make it work.



TLDR : many perks have weird requirements or cooldowns or things that just stop them from being utelized. taking these requirements or odd cooldowns away would make all perks in the game function better, cleaner, and make for a more well rounded meta as a whole.

Post edited by Rizzo on

Comments

  • kingcarl2012
    kingcarl2012 Member Posts: 1,710

    I think a great rework for insidious would beto have it last like 5-10 seconds with like a 60 second cooldown or a once per chase condition and have it be activatable like dead hard, that would make it a neat mind game chase perk and almost useless as a camping perk.

  • Phasmamain
    Phasmamain Member Posts: 11,531

    They do it for consistency sake. If for example surge worked on all attacks would twins be really good with it? Would it be 32 metres of Victor or Charlotte?

    What about huntress? A knockout huntress would not be fun at all

    Stbfl would lose stacks on special attacks? That ruins synergy with demo and pig

    Its just too hard to keep track of

  • Saltjar34
    Saltjar34 Member Posts: 766

    While I do agree that perks that activate upon injuring such as Sloppy, Franklin's, or STBFL should still be tied with basic attacks, perks that activate upon putting someone in the dying state shouldn't. I once thought of an idea to allow M2 attacks to work on non-ranged attacks :

    "After putting a survivor into the Dying State in a 4 meter radius around the killer"

    That's how you can remove the basic attack restriction without allowing sniper hatchets and honing stone traps to activate it

  • Maelstrom10
    Maelstrom10 Member Posts: 1,922

    I never mentioned stbfl because thats a special perk surrounding the obsession, and people agree its strong/i see it frequently used and use it myself a lot.

    Knockout huntress would be fine? how is it any different to a knock out plague or a knockout nurse etc. its just a perk with an effect. you don't know where there going down anyways with knockout unless your on comms or the person has object to see the killer downing the player.

    Surge on victor would not work explicitly because no perks work on victor himself. that is a special case sure, but whilst victor technically is an m2 attack, even non attack perk's such as aura reading or infectious fright do not work on victor i believe.

    it's... really not that hard to keep track of though. i mean are you really saying that a surge on bubba's saw would be too much? or on demogorgons shred?

    That's not a bad idea, but i think that surrounds the idea that single perks shouldn't affect multiple attacks for some reason. like. sloppy butcher on its own, only influences basic attacks, and you have to use addons if you ever want it on a secondary. that shouldn't be the case tbh. is there any real reason it shouldn't be inflicted by all attacks? franklins is the same thing with bubba and the twins even having addons to inflict its effect, and whilst i don't neccessarily enjoy franklins effect, is there any reason at all that a demogorogons shred shouldn't activate it tbh?

    Honing stone isn't even a real worry to me, outside of for maybe franklins (because your item would drop on the trap immeidately, but then you kind of made the mistake of stepping in it and you know where it is,) because perks like surge activate in a distance around the killer, and perks like knockout effect the downed survivor. this would simply make the trap down the survivor and hide their aura (but survivors already see trap snap notifications so it would be fine?)