Keys arent a big issue because STATS
"The Devs just said that Keys aren't as big of an issue as keys because even though it might seem like there are a lot of issues there aren't that many hatch escapes via a key"
PLEASE... Stop relying on stats. The reason you dont see a lot of key escapes is because IF YOU BRING A KEY.. YOU GET TUNNELED. As killers we aren't just going to say "Oh you got a key? don't worry.. I'll let you survive till end game". So just because they don't escape, doesn't mean it isn't an issue.
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Keys are much weaker than Moris were. This is not something new.
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Who said anything about moris?
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Exactly. Their stats are screwed, just like the kill rates, and how Object "Isn't terribly effective." Even if keys are uncommon, that doesn't change the fact that they're broken and should be nerfed.
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Yeah and moris are gone now, move on to the next broken thing, oh yeah that's keys
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But the STATS!!! 😂 It's pretty much what they said about OOO
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I dont know, but I feel that is the start of the Killer playerbase opening Threads about Threads about Keys again.
But the Devs also said on Stream that they dont compare Moris and Keys and the Key-question was asked because of the recent Mori-Nerf.
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I can say with certainty that games with keys almost always end in them dying for me. To be fair there's confirmation bias at work here.
How many games can you remember recently where a key user escaped? I can gaurantee there's 10x more matches in that time frame where they died and didn't, or escaped without using it.
That said I'm going to continue not using them as they are cheap.
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I play both sides equally.. Personally I don't care about keys; I rarely ever have an issue with them. It was more to bring light to the fact that once again they bring "stats" into account, when this shows proof that you can't rely on "stats" to answer everything.
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Never saw a Mori that let me kill 3 survivors instantly with 1 gen remaining. I seem to remember having to catch them, down them, and hook them at least once. Maybe I am misremembering and there was an instant "Kill all" button that I forgot to push.
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If you have a Mori and still have 3 Survivors alive with 1 Gen remaining, you were not good. Whenever I used a Mori, I never went under 3 Gens.
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You obviously didn't play before 2017 were it didn't require a hook.
Stop comparing Keys to Mori's they are not the same.
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as if getting 1 hook is hard.
For a key to work for a 3 escape, you need to finish 2/3rd of survivor objectives and instantly win the match.
For a mori, to get an easy 3k, all you need was 1 hook for a mori and permanently cripple survivors for the remainder of the match to a point where 2 more kills is easy as pie, hooking a second one would give you the option to kill even faster.
Essentially, a key is a snowballing effect and can be countered. A mori was anything but a snowballing effect as it could be used near instantly without any counter.
Just because their on-use effect differs doesnt mean #########. Pop and DS were compared in effect a lot, but Pop and DS work very differently.
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So what's the problem?
Keys are exactly that: not a problem.
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Keys reduce the number of gens needed for multiple Survivors to escape. That is a problem IMO.
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Every single killer asking for a key nerf.
Come on don't be coy. When moris were nerfed everyone started whining about keys needing to be nerfed in compensation for the mori nerf.
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I'd seriously love to know if the stats actually give information about how many people who bring a key die first or second and how quickly. As others pointed out.
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Give it another year and maybe Keys will be looked into after they lose another chunk of the killer base.
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Well yeah keys don't get used much on hatch cause 90% of killers dodges when they see a key.
Mori's were more powerfull then keys. That's true
But that's not the point. It's still the same issue of your game suddenly ending halfway through.
A game with a key is never a good game.
Either you stomp them and the key didn't do anything but you just played a stompfest
Or they stomp you and the key didn't matter but you just played way out of your league
Or you have the same skill level and the game ends just as it starts to get good. So a key game is always a bad game.
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That is simply not true. This post only talked about keys and stats not a word about moris.
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Yes, this is the reality.
- The keys require game progress, both for the survivors and the killers. The hatch spawn is based on the number of generators repaired, but also on the number of survivors already killed. There is a form of compromise here.
- The killers have everything to defend themselves against keys. They can camp, tunnel, use certain perks, and even know that a key is brought into the lobby!
- The problem only concerns a minority of players: the big group of SWF with communication. Additionally, the item is quite rare due to the number of items in Survivor Bloodwebs.
About the Moris?
- A condition of use that is too simple, being able to eliminate a survivor too early in the game, considerably unbalancing the game, and even worse with the use of certain killers and addons...
- Inevitable, except by refusing to play or being an excellent survivor never getting caught by the killer ... I remember the killers justified the Moris by the existence of the instaheals, which no longer exist except with use of a perk of sacrifice, and good coordination. Again mostly used by a minority: communicating SWFs.
- It's naturally available and easily usable by any killer. And spawning more easily in Bloodwebs.
Yes, keys and moris were/are absolutely not equal. And the statistics confirm it.
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Well, of course what you wrote is mostly wrong.
I have had a number of matches where a survivor finds a key in a chest, plants it somewhere, and then later in the game grabs it when they can't close the deal and 2-3 survivors remain. You may not even know the key is in the game, unless you suggest killers start patrolling chests.
The issue is the spawn and handoff capabilitty of keys that allow groups of survivors to escape at the point they feel they can't win, and unlike what you wrote, there is often no way to counter unless you see it in the lobby or mid-game.
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The stats are also equally misleading - keys are often not used because the person dies, but they also aren't used because the team just wins. The issue isn't the frequency of their activation but the RANDOMNESS of when it occurs - you find one in a chest - BOOM, doesn't matter that you did the wrong gens etc, just radio your friends and go meet in the shack in 30 seconds. Winner!
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Yea forget stats sid you see how happy most of the community was when ds and object were said they are gonna be nerfed
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Seems like people say stats aren’t reliable whenever they are proven wrong.
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But they still said that they are going to change it.
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I've started dodging lobbys when i see a key and im a survivor main, fed up getting screwed over by teammates.
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We aren't saying its unreliable.
If there was a bug where a Killer could insta-win and it only happened 1% of the time, would it be okay to leave it in the game? The stats say its not a big deal!
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They never said it wasn’t an issue. They simply stated that the perceived grievance of survivors actually managing to escape by opening a hatch with a key is actually incredibly low.
It really only happens in SWF teams on comms with somebody else running a rainbow map.
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they're probably gonna dump that key during a swap in a chest if they're in swf , only franklin's really helps against anybody with a key in a group lol. and could also lead to you catching somebody because they're not gonna wanna easily let the key go heh. if the killer you're using doesn't have franklin judge dodge the key lobby or any where somebodyd oesn't ready up
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Once again, the devs don't consider the individual player experience.
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I still think keys are a good thing, at least for the time being. I play solo survivor 100% of the time, and sometimes i bring a key as backup, because the game turning into a 3v1 early due to hooktunneling, dcs and hooksuicides are way too common.
IF matchmaking is ever working in a good way, then it might be something to change, because then you would have a fair matchup anyway. But until this happens, i would like to keep keys.
The only real other option is to return to play swf instead of solo, because dcs and hooksuicides ruin far more games then.
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It’s funny that people actually defends keys.. after the mori nerf
Both of them was considered the most broken thing in the game before mori change. But after that keys are fine now? Really?
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Before landing into a lobby with a key or two or a map with them as a solo had me looking for the hidden offering from the killer to know if I had to play super stealthy that game and also worrying a survivor was gonna crash it on offerings with a hidden killer offering (hypocrites lol) and make me have to queue again. Naturally the swf did not want the killer to be able to ruin their cheese with a mori so they wanted moris gone, and they are gone now without a chance for the killers to enjoy them while they still could unlike the with the keys.
So now, survivors don't see an issue with keys since a solo could follow a swf around and jump out the hatch with them (not a common thing ata ll, but I have done it myself once in a while as a solo survivor that landed in with a duo or 3 man's lobby that weren't toxic to me) and they also know the guy with the key if he doesn't hide it in a chestw ith an item swap is gonna probably be the first one the killer goes after. and the swf can look out for each other on comms while they work throught heir plans with their hatch offering not even needing a map to find the hatch quickly any more. So of course survivors are okay with it, and killers queues were so fast they probably got a kick out of dodging key lobbies and imagining how long those groups were waiting there for a killer. So some of them probably stopped caring too since they didn't expect any changes anyways I think.
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Didn’t know keys could instantly be used, in the start of the match!
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Actually, I think they could!
It's been so long but I think in the early, early, early, early versions of DBD the hatch spawned at the beginning of the trial. I was in a closed (semi open, anyone could sign up iirc) beta for DBD for like a weekend. Trapper was the only killer. I didn't buy DBD until way later (around when Freddy released iirc).
I also know for quite a while the Mori didn't even require hooks and you could Mori people on first down. Lead to a lot of butt clenching when the second survivor goes down and you're not sure if it's an Ivory or ebony until they get hooked/mori'd.
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That sounds crazy haha! I started playing around 1 1/2 ago so it’s interesting to hear the way this game used to be
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