We only have ourselves to blame for the new decisive strike.
A lot of players use DS to counter tunneling, myself included, the thing is that most of the time it's used as a free escape, I've done things like that a few times too,
go in for a risky unhook while the killer is near by, Why? because you have DS and know that you're going to escape the grab.
Or we as players will just do objectives right in front of the killer knowing we have DS and again a free escape.
Most of the time if I'm doing objectives my DS will run out. the combos can be a problem, BT,DS,UB for one.
in that case a killer can't do anything about the person on the hook or the person saving them. At least with the change a killer can at least get the person doing the hook save.
I'm saying this as someone who plays both roles, survivor more then killer but I understand the change and sure it's just going to case a new problem of people just doing nothing to save their active DS but it's really not much different then how it works right now.
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The upcoming change is horrible because before you could do a gen and maybe never use the DS.
Now I can't see why would people pick DS without UB and without trying to force killer to chase them.
DS never worked as anti tunnel perk. Now it still doesn't work as anti tunnel perk and you can't do anything while it's activated.
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You aren't being tunneled if you have the time start doing any kind of action.
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Like i said to a friend today survivors are going to have to start playing smarter knowing they don't have DS to cover them like they did, they will have to plan when to save, where and when to heal, what gen to do and the ones that do things right in front off the killer are going to get punished for it. I think this new DS might shake the game up a bit and how it is played on both sides as you might not see survivors healing under a hook now knowing that if they do they lose there DS and will have to go somewhere safe to do it and make the killer track them down and not get a free hit at the hook.
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Thank you. Appreciate the understanding of a survivor primary that DS was utilized as an aggressive objective tool rather than a chase/escape anti-tunneling perk.
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Problem was that people abused the hell out of it, the same thing with old Ruin, and ruin undying.
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So you are telling me that DS, a perk that discouraged the killer from going after the same survivor is not an anti-tunnel perk? Also, if you are working on gens or healing, you are not being tunneled. Case closed.
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Yeah, it feels long overdue in this case. Having never been around for old Ruin and not having Ruin/Undying unlocked, I never helped cause the problem, but I had no reason to doubt it was oppressive. I definitely saw DS being used to fix gens right after I unhook, especially with BT. Glad we can see progress for balance on the survivor side of the fence.
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If a killer is tunneling you (like for real tunneling not the survivor definition of tunneling) then you won't be able to do any sort of action because you'll be to busy running and trying to find pallets to loop and what not.
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Ourselves? Maybe you, but not me. Just like I don't have to blame myself for when they nerfed Billy.
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I was actually fine with any interaction other than gens being done with DS but i understand why it disables for saboing and cleansing
however i feel like it shouldn't be for healing or unhooking as you sometimes are forced to do the save yourself. example another survivor saves you goes down like 10 seconds later and is hooked and you have to do the next save at that point there is nothing stopping the killer from winning/tunneling.
healing is another thing since you do it at the hook more often than not and if i understand correctly that doesn't mean when you are healed but when you heal someone else. Why punish yourself? you can just not heal and i feel like other players will also have that mindset and not heal their teammates when they want to hold onto DS. there really isn't that good of a reason for it to deactivate when you heal another survivor. edit: also it means when you use a medkit/selfcare yeah why punish the survivor for trying to recover i get it's for anti tunnel but this is interaction seems a bit much.
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You also won't be able to use that perk if you are tunneled for real if you loop the killer for more than 1 minute...
Also even if you get downed before that, they can slug you for a few seconds then hook.
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I didn't tell you anything you assumed that. I said that it was never an anti tunnel perk because it doesn't help you when you are tunneled.
At best it was anti pick up perk that made killers think whenever they want to be stunned if the person they tunneled have this perk.
For this perk to be anti tunnel it should give the killer reverse blood lust. That would force killers to go for someone else. Because they can't catch someone if they have run at same speed or slower.
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So anti tunneling perk that punishes killer when they tunnel does nothing when you're not getting tunneled ? Who would have thought. The nerf literally removes the instances where you do actions that make killer tunnel you as you run into their face, doing your objectives infront of them. You're basically forcing them to tunnel so that you can activate DS to waste their time.
If DS doesn't activate it means its doing it's job well and you're not getting tunneled. Be glad you don't have to activate DS, that's what it's there for, to ensure you get a game where killer isn't constantly on you and doesn't have to proc DS.
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I don’t use DS so whatever. I have to say though, having DS deactivate after healing is not a good idea.
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This. They need to remove the timer, and make it deactivate solely based on doing any progressive interaction that other than being chased by the killer/vaulting/pallets/etc.
Also not opposed to it being active after both hooks, because again, as long as you aren't progressing the objectives, I see no harm in it being active if the killer decides to come after you repeatedly.
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DS is not an anti-tunnel perk. It's an anti-momentum perk. It has turned into an anti-tunnel perk because everyone complained about it and BHVR was forced into turning it into an anti-tunnel perk. But intrinsically that was never what DS was supposed to be.
The fact of the matter is, in this game if a perk is overused by majority of players BHVR will take a look at it to see if it needs to be adjusted. Not every perk gets nerfed in this manner; BBQ is by far the most used killer perk and one of the most powerful, but has never been directly nerfed and only been indirectly nerfed. It fits into BHVR's design philosophy and will never be nerfed and in fact even got a slight buff.
But most perks will see a nerf if they are used by majority of players and have extremely powerful effects. DS is one of them. Ruin was another. Because of how ubiquitous and powerful and often game-changing they are they need to be nerfed for the health of the game.
I don't know about blaming ourselves for the nerfs. I blame BHVR for their poor game design more than anything; perks like DS and Ruin will always be too powerful because they are one of the few ways to gain a direct time advantage in this game through perks, and time advantage is the only thing that really matters in this game.
PS - I can't ever be blamed for DS nerf because I don't even use DS.
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I agree with this, actually.
Hell, if they all want to waste half the match baiting DS, be my guest. You'll only screw your team by doing so.
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the only other interaction missing is looting and that doesn't progress the game.
arguably healing doesn't progress the game because you don't need to in order to do gens and from the way this is phrased it is only when you perform the healing interaction so unless you use a medkit or selfcare you don't loss DS but why when you can just have someone else heal you it doesn't make sense. this also discourages you from helping other survivors because why would you heal them if it might take away your DS and you need it.
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Exactly. The perk perfectly serves its purpose if tunneling actually occurs, and otherwise toxic survivors just waste their own time and accomplish nothing.
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This is an irrelevant assignment of blame. Players will always use whatever options they have available to the most extreme extent possible. That is the way it is in multiplayer games, the end. It's on Behaviour for not addressing the overreach that this perk enabled. Good that they are finally taking these steps, but it should have happened a lot sooner, because this is/was an abused mechanic. Same for moris, keys, etc.
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This is honestly the first time I've felt hope for the game.
I was honestly about to uninstall and just move on from DBD, but these changes to OoO and DS have given me a second wind....though I may take a short break until they happen.
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and going to work on a gen that isn't in earshot or in the killer's face you would eventually run the timer off or it would run out during the next chase anyways, so not much different when not intentionally abused considering a locker can still help if you had a bad unhook from a teammate without a close enough pallet. It shouldn't be felt much by people using it properly. It should be mostly trolls or people that weren't playing more carefully having the most problem with the change.
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A lot of people coming out of the woodwork trying to pretend like DS isn't an anti-tunnel perk so it shouldn't be nerfed, eh?
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How is that an argument? Regardless of if you do an action or not; if the killer keeps going after the same person repeatedly its still tunneling.
Another downside that no one is realizing.. This essentially means that if a killer has 2 people hooked in the basement it's now a death trap for them.
Survivor A goes down into the basement for the save but gets hit before unhooking; Survivor A saves Survivor B but then gets downed. Survivor B attempts to unhook Survivor C and then gets downed. Now Survivor B is doesn't have DS anymore.
"So ignore the survivor and just run out".. 9/10 times you arent getting out of the basement in time.
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How can you be tunneled while doing an action that requires you to stop
Granted there is 2 thi g I hope that's gets changed about ds
1 when you get downed ds pauses
And 2 if you enter a locker ds deactivates
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All I have to say is the developers did it to themselves.
They don't do anything about Camping/Tunneling from a CORE mechanic perspective. Why isn't this a change implemented as built in for survivors? Why are survivors obligated to have AT LEAST one person bring DS in a match simply because the killer "MAY" camp. It's absurd.
It's funny how they have an issue with Pyramid's cages being camped, but hooks... hooks are fine. Since you know everyone will have DS right?
The mere fact that they even attempted to do an experiment on hook camping is proof that they DO think Hook Camping can be abused.
Now watch this... MORE players will bring DS/UB and will stay off gens to make reckless plays like killers continue crying about. DS was never an issue for smart killers who knew how to counter it. All while DS was never strictly an anti-tunnel perk. The devs themselves said this before.
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Yea old ruin. Made survivors look for totems and often because of that it broke in 20s the same reason people asked for better totem placements
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I think the logic is, how could you be getting tunneled if someone was chased, downed, and hooked in the interim?
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It was and still will be an anti-tunnel perk. New DS, though, can't be abused in an offensive way.
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Indeed, we only have ourselves to blame for getting one of the most busted perks in the game changed to being something reasonable and good.
Granted, it took a lot.. a lot.. a lot of very loud very angry often unbearable complaining, but it happened.
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And for those who claim that it won't stop tunnelers, DS never stopped tunneling to begin with. It only bought you time to stall the tunneling before you died in a really sad and trafic way.
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To be fair, DS was originally supposed to be an anti-MOMENTUM perk, which should never exist in a game like this, particularly on the majority team, but I digress.
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Basement shouldn't be easy for survivors to escape out of. If the survivors messed up and got themselves caught in a basement then that sucks for them.
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Technically though, it is the devs fault because tunneling has been a problem since the game was still somewhat new but they decided to use a perk as a band-aid fix.
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Because if you’re safe enough to progress the objective, you don’t need a free pass/free escape.
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It really doesn’t matter whether DS is perceived as anti tunnel or not.
The point was that DS allowed survivors to progress objectives freely for 60 seconds, whilst killers are being punished by DS for simply trying to progress their own objective.
We don’t have a killer perk that prevents any survivor from touching any gen for 60 seconds simply because a survivor successfully just repaired another gen. Because that would be silly: punishing survivors for simply trying to engage in their objective.
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it's just delayed, sure the killer got another survivor but they go for you right after.
like if you got hook rushed and your savoir went down and got hooked and the killer goes after you is that not tunneling?
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You have a perk that block almost 50% of the gens for longer than 60 sec...
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Getting confirmation on how exactly it works i don't think its so bad. I'm fine with it now
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So if there are 2 people left i should not unhook people in order to keep my safety net?
So if I momentarily (I say momentarily but at the time you in the chase you wouldnt know that) lose the killer in the chase I should continue to do nothing just in case killer catches up to me 5 seconds later?
I should let people bleed out on the floor just in case killer comes after me instead?
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But doesn’t prevent the survivors entirely from starting repairs at the start of the match.
DS doesn’t function “there’s a 40% chance you may or may not get a difficult skill check”
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DS is bandaid fix for tunneling/camping that was implemented back in what 2017?
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It operated differently then.
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Well corrupt has literally same timer mechanic as DS. So you just have to use the time you get. And realistically survivors should hide until corrupt is over but nobody does that
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Not by much... The only difference is length of the stun and how how long you its active...
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All the power of current ds and none of the abuse that makes killers miserable
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If you're so good a looping then why would you need the perk? If you're so good at looping you probably wouldn't have been caught in the first place or if you were caught it's now far enough into the game that you are most likely getting out (from my experience). It's literally the same as now as far as a timer goes.
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They said right away that going into a locker will not deactivate DS. And to be clear when I said ourselves in the title I was saying as a community. Not every single person in it .
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Yea but I would like to be able to split my pressure even for 20s because unbreakable that's why I said it should pause when downed because they haven't progressed the game in any way it literally like deep wound it's just a temporary hindrance that buys you a bit of time and I should get ds for picking them up un that situation
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I have had multiple games where during the end game collapse I was unhooked, ran for the exit gate, and then deliberately let the Killer knock me down and pick me up so that I could use the Decisive Strike to buy myself the time to run through the final gate.
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