Hatch
You can body block a survivor from jumping into the hatch when it's open but not when it's closed if they have a key? Does this item seriously have actually no counter play at all?
Comments
-
nope it has no direct counter play and why it's been talked about since it came into being! I mean litterally... through two mori changes with promises to change keys at the same time hasn't happened. till it happens I won't hold my breath nor recommend it
3 -
Nah, no counter play. The only thing you can do at that point is watch them butt-dance over it.
:(
2 -
All you can hope to do is destroy it beforehand with Franklins Demise.
Otherwise its time for every Killers favorite game of "How Long Until They Leave?"
6 -
You actually can, you can even go from blocking the open hatch into blocking the key prompt if you position without ever giving the option to use the key, if you position yourself right as you close it.
If you stand in front of the hatch grip (on the other side of the open hatch door) you actually prevent survivors from opening the hatch, allowing you to stall for EGC or grab them off exitgates, you don't even need to touch the hatch.
0 -
Well so what? They manage to escape thanks to a key you brought, and would've maybe died without it. What's the big deal unless you're doing some sort of 4k challenges though? At least I'm a lot happier knowing I'm less likely to double pip
2 -
There was no promise to change Keys at the same time as Moris. They even said that a change to Moris and Keys will not happen in the same patch.
So dont make up things.
2 -
Please don't body block the hatch from a survivor who wants to escape, that's not fair.
The whole idea of the key is to escape early or late with it, people have to lose with dignity. otherwise where is the fun here?
If I'm the last survivor alive and have the key, I would rather have the killer chase me instead of body block the hatch from me to get another kill.
It's ruining my gaming experience in every way and if I play as a killer, I will not prevent the survivor from using the key in a fair way.
1 -
It's literally the killers objective to stop survivors from leaving so how is it unfair to prevent them from doing so? Unsure if you are trolling here.
2 -
I mean body block is unfair.
2 -
Deal with it. Keys are unfair as it gives survivors an easy escape, and quite often the people who escape via key are screwing over their other teammates who might not be near the hatch to also escape, and are doomed to be stuck in the map with a Killer who now has to kill that person to hope to not depip.
2 -
when things happened and they said they were going to be changing BOTH, people accepted that they would do both at the same time because that would be a neutral way of doing things as moris and keys were talked about at the same time by both survivor and killer as two of the most unbalancing things in the game. then they talked about making meaningful changes and not just jump to a quick solution and IT was talked about that they were working on both and in the same breath as well and then suddenly killers lost moris though the change was what many said would be good, it isn't good with out a change to keys. they didn't use immagination to change it, they only took a quick and easy solution and put it out there. now a month or more after the mori change they have only ONCE mentioned that they were actually working on the key issue and looking at how to better change the mori issue but they weren't going to say when so that no one can use their keys up like people did with med kits.
Well they've been using keys and their hatch offerings in much more regularity since moris came out. and once they came out it was radio silence about keys till recently. so I ask this: why were moris just done with little thought and keys being worked on for a grand thing? why would they give the appearance of siding with one or the other side by doing one first and not the other at the same time. With all the other things they do to killers and barely talk or do about survivors people have seen a bias towards survivors and the mori change further increased it. this is why from a PR perspective it would have been better to address BOTH at the same time and made people that didn't say they were survivor sided start to think that. I am one of these who kept saying, yes they may seem it now, but before they seemed pro killer before 2018 but since it really has been a seemingly endless whittle away at the killer capability, making them have to be more and more effecient and get yelled at by survivors for that and they see survivors advancing so easily and having so many second chances and they could play almost any way they wanted.
see there is a lot that goes into this game I accept that but it is unistakable that they have lately been doing things that survivors benefit from much more than killers, even now the clown rework, they made his power affect survivors in a positive way yet nothing the survivors do for their benefit helps the killer. that is why they should have released the mori change at the same time as the key change.
0 -
then survivors need to stop body blocking the killer from getting hooks, in order to get their comrades off the shoulder of the killer.
oh wait that's what a survivor is supposed to do is it not? help their other survivors get out yes? so why can killers not do something to get out? why is it unfair for killers to do their role in this game yet fair for survivors to do their role in this game? that's the mentality of entitlement. "I am a survivor, I must be allowed to get in the hatch when I am the last survivor!" NO this isn't a game based on surviving by daylight! being fair has nothing to do with giving you, the survivor, anything. Yet that's what you are telling people they should do....
2 -
Franklins
0 -
I'm more frustrated that the last survivor gets an opened hatch regardless of gens completed. Before 2 gens had to be done at least before hatch would automatically open. It definitelyencouraged players to save teammates more. Now I feel like it not only takes away a killers earned advantage by rewarding a losing survivor but it also gives more incentive to let teammates die early on. I've had plenty of games where I'd stop survivors doing any gens and the last one let's his teammates die so that the hatch opens. Super frustrating imo. Play as a team and lose as a team early on imo
0 -
If the stars align and the small chance a killer does just sit on a hatch while it's open to prevent a key user from escaping, you've two options:
1) Continue working on gens and force them off the hatch
2) Try to coax them off the hatch to chase you and slip past them to get the hatch (If option 2 does not work, refer to option 1)
Body blocking is a mechanic of the game with a few exceptions such as when Myers is stalking. If it weren't survivors could vault windows through the killer, run through them to mess up their swing, etc. To say body blocking is unfair is like saying being able to hit great skillchecks and get a small boost for doing so is unfair. Yes, every once in a blue moon a killer will block you in a corner and just hold the game hostage because they're a prick. That is the only time where I would consider it unfair, but I can guarentee you that doesn't happen but a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of the time.
1 -
You have all the chances to counter it before the hatch spawns. Just kill the survivor and the key never comes into play.
If you close the hatch early instead of trying to close it in the survivor's face then you don't have to worry about the key. You can then body block it again and they will be forced to run to the exit gates. You can catch them either way. Morale of the lesson. Don't cut it close and just kill the survivors when you have the chance. Slugging the survivor also prevents them from using the key.
Key escapes aren't that common most killers can easily tunnel a survivor to death if they dare to bring a key into the match. If you didn't do that that's on you. They made the key a bright silver white color so you can easily see it in the lobby.
0 -
I only read the first sentence, because I dont think that the rest really matters, so I keep it short:
They said from the beginning both changes will not happen in the same patch.
They said in the recent Q&A that they dont compare Keys and Moris.
^ whatever the community makes of those two statements is not what the Devs said.
So completely irrelevant what people "accepted", when the Devs clearly said that it will not happen during the same time. And if you complain about something (even stating false infos that the Devs said otherwise), because you want to "accept" something what the Devs did not say, that is up to you.
0 -
but you are aware that the mori change was just a change of some variable because the condition already exists, while the key change might just need something else? If you want to have a x second opening animation, that animation doesnt compile itself in your program code. IF you want something else, it might need some testing before it breaks something, unlike changing moris from 1 2. hookstate to 3rd hookstate.
So it only sounds biased towards survivors if you have no clue at all and don´t list when the devs answer this very question.
Also, the mori changed the game dynamic from -at best- undecided to winning, sometimes from losing to winning.
A key usualy doesnt change the outcome, because a 3k is a win just like a 4k would be. If more than 1 survivor escapes, then it wasn´t an easy escape, because the gens neede to be done just the same if 4 want to escape. Survivors with a key are just not screwed over my that random teammate dcing or hook suiciding after being tunneled and camped.
1 -
I only read the first sentence of your post as i don't think the rest really matters. oh wait i had to read the next line because your first sentence shows only your arrogance and idiocy to not understand the arguments presented. let me make it clear: releasing the mori change without the key change when both sides are talking about both makes them appear biased towards one side or the other. if you don't get that then you will never get it. GO READ before you respond or don't respond at all, you made yourself look like a fool.
0 -
I was only focussing on you saying things that were not true: "through two mori changes with promises to change keys at the same time hasn't happened"
Like I said, they did not promise it.
And honestly, if people really think that Keys and Moris were somewhat equally powerful - if you use a Mori, you must be really bad if you lose a game at this point if you get the Mori early in the game, while multiple Survivors escaping with a Key means they did most of their Objective.
Also, it should be clear that a Key Rework is far more complex than a Mori Change, which was only a number-change (but they might get changes in the future).
0 -
so you know they could easily have changed keys by changing one variable. the hatch stays open for x time variable, change it so that it is a 0 and then it's just as simple as a mori change and it makes it so that 2, 3, or 4 people can't get out without doing some of the objectives and then say they won because they escaped. could make the keys only work during EGC, they could have made the keys only work after gens were done. but no have to let the survivors do things.
look at what a mori does: lets the killer decide to loose blood points and emblem progress in favor of killing them in a different way. This takes longer than hooking the survivor AND it also lets the other survivors do things unimpeded during that time. This is a n offering that gives nothing more than this.
lets look at what a key does: first of all all keys, including a broken key lets survivors see other survivors or the killer within a certain radius, it lets the survivor see the obsession without issue of range or charge. These are done by add ons and these can also include extra distance or extra charge time to use. Now there are two more add ons to talk about, one keeps the key if you are killed in the match so it can be used again, and the other keeps the key if it is used in the hatch so it can be used later. the mori does not have this ability what so ever. Now it also allows opening the hatch if it is closed as long as it is not a broken key. then that hatch stays open for a time and closes if there are more than one remaining survivor as well as if only one it stays open.
So now set the way back machine to when mori's worked without hook states. well, you see when they changed moris back then they said they were going to rework keys. this never happened but moris now sported the requirement of the first hook state to have been done. now this happens and again radio silence (till the last dev stream) about keys but still only vague promises about the key re-work but yet mori's now were changed to require the second hook state to have been achieved.
People said well keys have to be able to let everyone escape because of the achievement. well there is an achievement that is done with mori's that is neigh impossbile now unless you are more experienced and going up against people that don't know the game well. yet keys can be used just as they always have. well you can still get the achievement for keys to get everyone out by bringing in 4 keys and the hatch closes behind every one. so one variable can be changed and still get the achievement. argument destroyed.
now the last dev stream they out right said they were looking at the changes they did to the mori while they also said they were still looking at how to change keys with no time line to prevent people from just using the keys now, yet the people are using keys more often now.
0 -
To be fair, they said they were looking into key and moris, and i used an ebony mori every single time i played killer. I didn´t use my instaheals when they were changed, and i didnt want the same to happen to moris, so i used most of them up before they were changed. But since the change, i havn´t played killer at all.
So people know keys are on the line, so of course they use them, just like they used moris. There is no difference.
Your change might be easy to implement, if that is the change they are going for. If they want a different change, it might be not that easy.
You are aware that not many people run broken keys with aura addons, because they are next to useless, because the charges are burnt so fast some are almost a one-time-use.
Unlike the ds-change, i think a key change that makes them as useless as moris would change my playstyle drasticly. i would return from 100% solo survivor to an swf player again, because while i bring keys, i bring it because you cant even rely on your teammates to not dc or hooksuicide, let alone do gens if you run the killer. And i think that might happen to other solo survivors too. So i think a hurried key change might not even be beneficial to killers.
But then again, i never understood the problem with keys outside of swf. Ds, yes, stacking second chance perks, yes, swf, hell yes, but keys most often allow that one survivor to escape if he even find the hatch before the killer finds him.
1 -
Keys ruin fun all the ######### time and are equally not fair, so no, I'll happily let the entity suck your soul, #########, if you're on the ground you can't key. so I'll let you bleed out.
Under the asumption this is not a troll, play killer for like 500 hours at high purple or red ranks.
The whole idea of a key is also game shattering in every way.
What you would rather have as a survivor is supposed to opposing to the killer so yes you're probably right.
You can't use a key in a fair way. it's intended and only uses (2) are both literally game shattering. either you completely cheat an escape or you get to see the killers aura for free any time you want and it's basically impossible to completely burn a key when you use it conservatively and with a few brain cells it's 45 seconds for ######### sake.
Sorry but keys are completely ######### and if there is anything I can do to ruin a key users day, I will take it in a heartbeat.
1 -
And they've already mentioned MORE MORI CHANGES with still no eta on the first key changes. (They did say with the more mori changes there will be more key changes but just the fact that they mentioned the mori changes is disgusting)
0 -
their announcement that they are considering more changes to the mori tells me the following:
1) they wanted to try and retain survivors from leaving at the expense of killers leaving so they acted on a mori change quickly and without much actual thought hoping not so many would leave. they were wrong.
2) they want to placate people by saying that the change they did will be altered to be better all the while keeping people thinking they will "FIX" keys.
or 3) they never intend on changing keys but continually dangling this as a carrot and forget about keys later.
This is the impression I get when I look at the second mori change since the game started and their track record since.
0
