What would you do to fix spirit's standing still mindgame...
... cuz I think we can all agree. standing still takes no skill
If we take out that mind game we simultaneously keep her a very strong killer, and make her take more skill
Comments
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Isnt it simple? Give the survivor a indicator when the phase starts.
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Every killer is capable of standing still and getting free hits from survivors running into the killer. Just don't run into the killer.
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Maybe she starts passively phasing when she is charging her power and husk disappears completely when she is in phase (and maybe an audio cue, maybe...). She can still have her TR.
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just remove her ability to hear survivor ehen phasing this way stridor spirit would be nerfed and if shebwant to standstill survivor could still walk to counter his mind game
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ermm that is not the problem, the problem is that you stand on one side of the pallet and the killer stands on the other, the killer can stand there and look at you,
you just run away? killer phases after you and hits you
you stand still? killer waits a bit, sees your general behavior, then phases to you and hits you
its entirely in the killers hands when to phase and the survivor has no knowledge of it so cant really react or do anything.
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When you're deciding if she's faking it or not you don't walk towards her, problem solved. Then if she's faking it she wasted a bunch of time for nothing and if she's phasing she just had to guess where you were.
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If a spirit is standing still at a pallet then run into an area that she doesn't have LoS. That way she has less information before she starts phasing.
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the moment you start running away from that situation she will have you.
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But at least you can see those Killers, you can't tell what she's doing.
If a normal Killer stands still and gets a free hit it's Survivor's fault for running into them.
If Spirit stands still the Survivor has no idea about what she's doing.
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If Spirit holds still in phase
She dies again. Bam, fixed it.
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He's making the point that if you have "no idea about what she's doing." why in the world would you walk towards her.
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Make her make noise when phasing, regardless of where you are.
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That isn't a mindgame
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I would probably make her shards glow like really bright when she phases or have a unique audio queue like a specific moan.
You could also make injured sounds non directional but get louder as you get closer.
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Are you telling me putting the controller down isn’t a mind game?
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You know, I don't really go against any good Spirits, so I'm not sure how valid my opinion is. Most rank 1 Spirits I go against seem to be rank 1 from another killer and new to Spirit. So take my opinion with a grain of salt- I'd probably feel differently if I actually went against good rank 1 Spirit players with good headphones and Stridor ahaha
Anyways, I don't really mind her stand still mindgames at most loops- UNLESS she has Stridor. Stridor, in my opinion, is what makes Spirit the monster she can be.
Spirit's main counter perks are Iron Will, Spinechill, and to some degree- Fixated. Spinechill helps shut down her stand still mindgames (since you will most likely see it flicker if she isn't actually standing there as she appears to be). And Iron Will gives you a little more power to mind game her back if you are able to break line of sight once you KNOW or even just guess that she is phasing. So those two perks together are really good at countering her to some degree, and just happen to be what your local Walmart Blendette may be running regardless.
But unfortunately, Stridor completely shuts down Iron Will. In most other killers, that's whatever, I don't think it's entirely unfair to have a counter to a survivor perk. But on Spirit? It just feels like it shuts down your ability to counterplay something that can already be difficult to counterplay. Even if you come into the trial technically prepared to face Spirit, you aren't really prepared, because your perk is now completely useless against the killer who already is making the most use out of sounds out of any killer in the game.
If I were to change anything, it wouldn't really be to give the survivor more information on when she is phasing, but to perhaps lower Spirit's audio levels when she is phasing and only when she is phasing. Maybe just around 50%- that way, if the survivor didn't get lucky by bringing Iron Will, you're still hearing them. And if they did? If you have Stridor, you're also still hearing them, but at slightly lowered volume than now. Spirit would still be good, just wouldn't have completely and utterly free information on what they were doing without putting more work into listening.
Her mind games are a big part of what makes her good. The ability to hear perfectly well while phasing is what makes her TOO good, imo. Idk tho, like I said, I haven't gone against any crazy good Spirits. The most unenjoyable Spirit games have been against the ones who had Stridor, though, LMAO
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pretty much
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Make her red light dissappear when phasing
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Just remove the husk the moment she starts phasing.
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This is the easiest fix and honestly one of the best ones to. Or just make it so you only hear in her tr
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Standing still and phasing or faking a phase isn't a mindgame because survivors are given zero information on when you are phasing. Moonwalking is a mindgame because the survivor can still make a good prediction or guess what the killer will do. With spirit, there are no mindgames nor counterplay unless she herself moonwalks or fake moving in one direction like other killers. What makes her good and what needs to be fixed is not allowing survivors to know when she is phasing.
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"faking a phase isn't a mindgame because survivors are given zero information on when you are phasing."
Because that would mean they are playing against Spirit incorrectly. Looking for information to react to as survivor is how you play against other killers.
Against Spirit you force her to react to you.
If someone is trying to react to Spirit they do not understand how to play against Spirit. You should be proactive, not reactive.
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if im being honest i dont like the idea of an audio cue. that's TOO much info. i mean look at demo. but yes we do need an indicator but not one that sticks out like a sore thumb
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that would be too much of a nerf. it would make her a much weaker killer AND make her harder to play
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Ahhh so you should be proactive based on the 0 information she gives you, got it.
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Lol...that is literally what proactive means.
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It's been solved before. Back when Spirit was bugged and you could still track her location by her breathing while her husk was idle.
So pretty much that.
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This isn’t a problem that needs fixing. If you can’t beat spirit at this mind game, you need to improve your skills as a survivor.
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I know, but you are helpless in this situation if the spirit player knows how to play spirit and does it well. There is still no counter, only a slight delay in killing you if you vault a window or pallet. Survivors shouldn't have to feel completely helpless knowing they can't do anything, but that is what spirit does right now.
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Admittedly the way I'd do it is if you're standing still long enough at a certain point when a passive phase procs during each phase you losing vision of the survivor as if you were actually using your power and this gets disabled when you start moving again. As a tradeoff I'd give the actual killer player a tell when they're passively phasing. Such as their arms blurring on occasion on their own screen.
Regarding an actual tell for survivor I'd give the phase two distinct sounds that are almost identical but far enough that if you have a sharp ear you can tell but it would be subtle. One phase sound for phases happening while standing still and one phase sound for when The Spirit is using their power.
I'd also disable Stridor while phasing.
Because sometimes that's basically your only option in the case that you're in an open area with a pallet already thrown down. If you try to walk or run the Spirit is just going to catch up to you in phase. Vaulting the pallet and taking the risk is sometimes the only option a survivor has. Otherwise they're running out in an open field which a Spirit will be able to catch you before you reach the next tile. We can argue all day on whether the survivor should be given a chance to reach the next tile or if the chase should be enforced to end quicker since The Spirit is using their power but at the end of the day that isn't the issue. The issue is Spirit has no tell when they're using their power and it's unfun to play against and at times yes even unfair. In reality it's in The Spirit's ballpark to mess up also if they're good enough the survivor will never reach the next tile. Regarding being good enough you just need a little above average basic game knowledge to listen for the survivor and watch scratchmarks. Skills you don't even need to play Spirit to be good at.
The one issue with this is I'll acknowledge it's going to be hard to give Spirit a tell on when using their power and in my view it goes into this killer needs a moderate rework territory.
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I don't feel helpless at all against Spirit. They feel helpless because they don't know what they're doing, not because of an issue with Spirit actually objectively making them helpless.
First of all when you're at full health the Spirit is completely guessing your movement entirely. So half the time you should have the advantage here.
Just one example: She's phasing after you across the field and make it to a loop. You fast vault the window, wait a couple seconds, then slow vault back over. You manipulated what she saw and heard. IE scratch marks to the window and a fast vault noise. She is going to keep going around and assume you kept going. She will assume this because most players are bad and don't know how to play against Spirit and will do just that. You mind gamed her by giving her false information and forced her to make a guess.
This is just one of many examples. There is lots of counter play if you understand what the Spirit is seeing and hearing to manipulate it.
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"Because sometimes that's basically your only option in the case that you're in an open area with a pallet already thrown down."
The fact of you being in this position means you already screwed up and misplayed. You're trying to outplay a position you shouldn't be in the first place.
Also, in that scenario you can start to sprint away from the loop. She will immediately start phasing because she knows you are gaining distance. Instead right after starting to sprint away now you start walking. She has no idea which direction and is forced to guess.
You have manipulated her into phasing when you wanted her to. IE force her to react to you, not you reacting to her.
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Actually she does have info, but its very subtle and requires alot of attention to know:
- If she fake phasing, shes always have her view on a whole loops. If not, she does phasing.
- Her glass brighter, but u barely see it.
- Her animation reseted
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Because sometimes you're in a position where you're in an indoor map or at a loop in the corner of the map.
Sometimes the only way to go is around the killer, but where I could see Freddy place a blood pool, or a trapper trap the pallet, I am now in a position where it's checkmate without any input from the killer
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True, but against any skilled spirit player this will probably not work especially since this is a very common thing to do against spirit.
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If you are in the corner of the map and the killer is on the other side of the pallet, you are already in a bad position. A spirit standing still is not the issue in that situation.
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except with literally every other killer it isnt a problem at all, its completely common to move to choose to move to the corner of the map for yout teammates sake. Just say you're afraid to say that spirit is broken
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make the husk disappear after 3 seconds of using her power
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This right here. If survivors can hear the direction she is phasing from, it gives them a lot of info, especially if you make her default moan sound when she's within striking range. Also, the bug that make her shards slightly glow when she started phasing would go great with this. As a Spirit main I really do find it dumb how I can stand there and watch survivors fling themselves into my open arms.
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Make it so her shards glow really bright when she’s phasing. But make it only visible if you’re within a 16m range of her. That way you’ll still be in her terror radius and won’t hear the wind noise but you’ll be far enough away that if you can’t see her phasing you can choose to keep running and gain even further distance if she decided to phase. And so her standing still mind game is gone. Cause you’ll be close to her when she usually does it. That way there’s more indication for the survivor, but still keeps the spirits core gameplay.
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One way to nerf spirit would be to make her lose sight as soon as stands still... You never stop moving as killer in normal circumstances.
For example lets say you are at the pallet spirit stands infront of it and loses her sight (has spirit world view of the world). She can follow scratch marks if there are any (if there are none its a guess). If she moves she regains the sight after 1 seconds(or more).
A nerf most people want is something that affect sound and would be hard to balance
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It's still a bad position against the killer whether your went there intentionally to buy time for your teammates as you can't run away from the killer in a direction that gains you distance.
Other killers do stand still. There are mindgames killers can do at TL walls that involve standing still for a moment.
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It's easy when you only address half of the possibilities, isn't it?
"If the Spirit is faking, she's wasting time. If the Spirit is not faking, don't walk towards her."
Yes, bc when the Spirit stops I need to stop and a good look at her to see if the shards are shining, look at her animation resetting, the occasional hair glitch, all perfectly intended signs by the development team. It's not like other killers that are also powerful don't give signs that they are using their power, no one sees a Nurse lifting her hand or give audio clues before blinking so you can estimate the distance traveled. /sarcasm
I'm so tired of people giving useless advice in these forums trying to justify a killer power that is unfun to go against and takes counterplay out of the table. Just by having survivors stop to assess if she is or not phasing, the Spirit is already in a situation that is impossible for her to lose. She either fakes and watches the survivor escape pattern gaining knowledge of how they will try to avoid her or immediately phases and gain distance on them bc they had to stop to look for the bright shards/hair glitch/animation reset.
Spirit is a dumb killer and needs change.
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I've never thought of that, but that's actually one of the best suggested changes to Spirit i've seen.
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This works against the majority of the Spirits out there at rank 1. Also, whether it happens to work or not it still means there is counter play. It doesn't have to be 100% effective to be counter play.
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""If the Spirit is faking, she's wasting time. If the Spirit is not faking, don't walk towards her.""
This is not what I said, nor would I. So right off the bat you're starting out an argument for something I'm not even saying. This is what you interpreted me as saying, which was incorrect.
"Yes, bc when the Spirit stops I need to stop and a good look at her to see if the shards are shining, look at her animation resetting, the occasional hair glitch, all perfectly intended signs by the development team."
Once again, never said any of these. Nor would I. Yes, you're trying to be sarcastic, but it's for a point that shows misunderstanding of Spirit at a fundamental level.
"I'm so tired of people giving useless advice in these forums trying to justify a killer power that is unfun to go against and takes counterplay out of the table. Just by having survivors stop to assess if she is or not phasing, the Spirit is already in a situation that is impossible for her to lose. She either fakes and watches the survivor escape pattern gaining knowledge of how they will try to avoid her or immediately phases and gain distance on them bc they had to stop to look for the bright shards/hair glitch/animation reset."
This is a skill issue on your part, not a Spirit issue.
If you seriously think it's a situation that's impossible to lose for Spirit you need to get some more experience with the game. Speaking hyperbolic doesn't add anything to the conversation.
Based on these things you've said you don't have a good understanding of Spirit. I think you should practice playing as and against her some more. There are some educational videos out there you can watch.
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I'll quote the counter play to this that I already posted earlier.
"Also, in that scenario you can start to sprint away from the loop. She will immediately start phasing because she knows you are gaining distance. Instead right after starting to sprint away now you start walking. She has no idea which direction and is forced to guess.
You have manipulated her into phasing when you wanted her to. IE force her to react to you, not you reacting to her."
OR
She's phasing after you across the field and make it to a loop. You fast vault the window, wait a couple seconds, then slow vault back over. You manipulated what she saw and heard. IE scratch marks to the window and a fast vault noise. She is going to keep going around and assume you kept going. She will assume this because most players are bad and don't know how to play against Spirit and will do just that. You mind gamed her by giving her false information and forced her to make a guess.
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That is very dumb comparison statement since everyone knows the Spirit may or may not actually be standing still, while all other killers are.
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full rework, theres no version of spirits power that is either fun or interactive
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He wasn't being literal man. He was making a point.
The point is whether you know if she's phasing or not, you don't walk towards her.
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