What if dead hard didn't let you drop a pallet or vault for 5 seconds?
Title.
What if dead hard prevented you from dropping/vaulting a pallet or vaulting a window for 3 - 5 seconds after you used it?
I remember seeing this suggestion somewhere in a dead hard thread, and thought it was a good idea.
Current dead hard is pretty strong but horribly unfair as it has no counters WHEN USED FOR DISTANCE and it just removes a survivor mistake in a loop. A time where you would've caught someone you now don't because the survivor dead harded to a pallet.
This would promote using it in a way that requires lots of forward thinking (such as dead harding super early) or to avoid a hit where this change will have little impact.
Other than that I think it would be in a fine position. Maybe also remove the ability to dead hard over traps along with it but keep the partial invincibility. If these changes made it too weak it could have it's exhaustion timer reduced to 30 seconds.
I didn't wanna do another nerf dead hard thread, but this idea seemed pretty good so I wanted to see others opinions on it.
Comments
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it doesnt sound too bad of an idea. But first I wouldnt mind fixing the consistency first. It can be so unreliable at times some days its just not worth running.
7 -
Yup, that's the Dead Hard nerf i've been wanting.
I want to feel like a badass when I use this perk, not a brainlet.
9 -
You thought that was a good idea? It would make the perk absolutely useless. Some of you killer mains are hilarious.
63 -
No one would use the perk anymore, thats what would happen. How about buffing usless perks insead of asking for yet more nerfs. The DS and OoO nerfs aen't even life yet and here are the killer mains already crying for the next survivor perk nerf...
7 -
How about 2 seconds. 5 seconds and you've nearly made the perk useless unless you have really good spacial awareness.
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That's basically what I was trying to get at, if you have super good awareness dead hard is still pretty good. I feel like 2 seconds might be a bit too short of a time. Id personally make it 4 seconds.
3 -
No point buffing useless perks as long as the holy Trinity exist.
Nobody will use them unless they are equally or more detrimental to the killer.
9 -
I think it would be bad for the perk but if there was an experiment that showed otherwise I might reconsider.
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I feel like if anything it should be the opposite as in no more avoiding hits
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Nobody would use it. We need to make changes to perks that wouldn't nerf them into the ground. Sprint burst would become an objectively better dead hard if that was the case.
2 -
Do you mean take away the invincibility part and just make it for distance?
0 -
So you want to take a perk that almost never works for the original purpose it was made for and get rid of the only use it actually has? Why not just delete it outright then?
5 -
Why?
I mean I can come up with a thousand change ideas for things that don't need it, if you can't create a good argument for why, then your changes are useless by default.
Dead Hard is fine as it is right now.
6 -
Current dead hard is pretty strong but horribly unfair as it has no counters WHEN USED FOR DISTANCE and it just removes a survivor mistake in a loop. A time where you would've caught someone you now don't because the survivor dead harded to a pallet.
3 -
Nothing more fun then outplaying a survivor just to watch them press E to outplay the outplay before you can even do anything about it.
13 -
If you have a problem with Dead Hard then I’m going to assume you have a problem with all other exhaustion perks. As they all give you distance.
Like, what’s the difference between making the loop longer vs using Lithe when you could have downed them because there was no longer a pallet there but now they’ve gained a bigger distance than even DH ever could and have gone to another loop with another pallet.
8 -
lithe- requires setup and effort
Sprint burst forces you to walk or lose it and not have it when needed (unless cheating ofc)
dead hard- on demand distance when you want it combined with i frames.
there is a huge difference.
10 -
Ok? And it doesn’t give you as much distance as the first two. What’s your point?
You can 99% SB and you call that effort? Just because you may not like how the perk works doesn’t mean it’s unfair.
You still have to time Dead Hard for it to actually work. If the killer is good they will wait it out and out position the survivor.
Your opinions on Lithe still do not explain how that is more fair than DH. When they both essentially give you distance when you should have gone down.
4 -
With dead hard its a short distance compared to most other exhaustion perks and you have to be injured in order to use it. I think that makes up the difference.
7 -
Dead Hard is more annoying when they’re invincible than gaining distance. They could be right next to me but if I swing and they use dead hard, my swing will miss.
Having it as a dodge perk is just stupid. You’re basically asking survivors to have the borrow time effect whenever they’re injured, BUT all the time.
1 -
It's not how much distance you get, it's when the distance is used.
Dead hard is used exclusively to remove a mistake the survivors made. Don't have enough space to a pallet? DH.
As I literally put in the post in all caps bold:
Dead harding for distance has no counter and can extend chases even when the survivor makes mistakes.
2 -
I think that would make the mostly useless.
A better solution would be to remove the distance aspect of it as in instead of dashing foreward you briefly flash white and have I frames.
The best solution to it would be to not change it at all but make it so being injured has an actual downside.
The biggest problem is that the requirement of this perk to be injured isn't that big a deal to good survivors
You are in a stronger position if you 99% your heal with death hard up then you are when you are healthy.
0 -
I'm not denying what your saying. They said that dead hard has little requirement then other exhaustion perks which i disagreed with.
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It should either be changed for only gaining distance or only for dodging hits.
3 -
No.
2 -
You're one of those people that thinks Dead Hard is supposed to be used to dodge a swing instead of being used for distance at loops aren't you?
1 -
I think dead hard is fine as is, and I'm a killer main. Sure, Dead Hard can't be countered when used for distance but I think nerfing it, especially that hard, isn't the solution. If you nerf it that hard, nobody will use it. That's also not taking into account the fact that to use the perk, you have to be injured. If you have to be injured to use a perk, then it stands to reason that perk should have a decent risk vs reward factor.
2 -
Not really. If a perk is designed to remove a survivors mistake in a loop, that perk is horribly designed and needs a change.
1 -
The biggest strength of Dead Hard is that you can use it on command very easily. Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing, and Lithe all have strict activation requirements. Dead Hard, you can use anywhere at anytime as long as you are injured. I feel if they did nerf it, I'd take take your suggestion but reduce the time to 1.5-2 secs of not interacting with windows/pallets. It's still useable but now Survivors have to time it properly.
2 -
I think why people dislike dead hard is because it can make chase much longer.
On top of that, I saw many people and myself too, doing a mindgame with a Surivivor, that Surivivor falls for it but totaly denies that outplay by simply pressing one button.
2 -
Haha, finger press E.
5 -
There's plenty of other exhaustion perks for you to use. Take your pick.
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True, 5 seconds would destroy the perk
1 -
”oh shoot I forgot there is no pallet at this tile, but there is a window I can vault and I have lithe!”
You are acting like you can’t “correct” a mistake with other exhaustion perks. DH just does it on the fly and is far worse than the others because you go down half the time anyway.
1 -
Thats the eternal DBD-Circle. But it has nothing do to with killers, you see the same about killer perks (noed for example), and as soon as a killer is nerfed, the demands to nerf the next killer start almost instantly.
2 -
Lol it's never enough... Are you guys just going to keep begging for survivor nerfs until the only thing they can do is walk everywhere, with no items and they can only have 1 perk?
5 -
Lmao survivors would nix that change before it ever went through
0 -
I think this idea would kill dead hard. 3 seconds is a long time to not be able to drop pallets or vault anything.
1 -
Thats exactly why people dislike it. Most games reward you for good play, in DBD thats a mindgame as an M1 killer, a good shot as huntress or slinger, a good blink as nurse or rush as blight, having that taken away with a tap of the E button just takes the fun out of playing said killers. Like its the one perk survivors have that actually ruins the fun of the game and makes you wonder “why bother?” When you’re playing killer.
Its like when survivors complained about spirit fury/enduring except that took 2 perks and 2 pallets to activate. If DH took 2 perk slots and 2 pallet drops before it worked I dont think as many killers would have an issue with it
1 -
Let s nerf a perk that doesn't work most of the times. Been using lithe and balanced landing please complain about those aswell
3 -
What if, we put feedback and ideas in the feedback discussions?
1 -
Look, if you hate it that much, use Blood Echo or Mindbreaker, but personally its fine in the state it is and this change would be way too much.
0 -
Even when you would use Dead Hard to dodge a Hit (aka what is not possible at the moment), the duration would be so long that you would easily get Hit by the Killer. So the Perk would be 100% useless.
Dead Hard is fine, its ok that Survivors have strong Perks as well. And if it gets nerfed at one day because Killer Mains cried enough, they would go for Sprint Burst, since everyone would use that and Killer Mains would get annoyed by Survivors sitting on a Gen, letting the Killer get close before running away.
2 -
In my experience Sprintburst and Lithe are more about avoiding a chase. If someone uses this perk in front of me I probably won't chase them as they've got their distance now, unless I have no other people to chase or gens to defend.
Dead Hard however is used mid chase so has a higher potential to waste time, you already invested time into the chase, maybe a lot of time if they're good at looping. You don't know if they have DH til it's too late and you get outplayed by it. Often at this point too you are so out of position that it may be the best option to keep chasing that person and waste more time.
I feel sprint burst and Lithe are more "up front" and counterable for this reason.
0 -
The time is up for debate, personally 3 or 4 seconds would be fine with me.
I'm repeating myself when I say that I'm fine with both sides having strong perks, just not unfair perks. Dead hard is unfair as it literally covers a survivor mistake up which makes it incredibly frustrating to verse.
0 -
You don't go down if you use it for distance :)
Here's what makes it different from other perks, other perks don't always cover mistakes, and the mistake the survivor mad in your example is situational.
Dead hard works in EVERY loop, excluding the obvious "You will die if you use this pallet" loops.
Survivors can mess up at almost any loop and have their ass saved by DH. That's unhealthy for the game, especially because DH takes no skill to use whatsoever.
1 -
It would still be useless. Even if you write a "compensation" by reducing the Exhaustion Timer, as long as Exhaustion does not go down while running, that is nothing, since when the Survivor is on the Hook (because you want a Perk to be 100% useless), they get rid of their Exhaustion anyway.
Not being able to use Dead Hard over Traps is fine, but anything above that is too much, you would just kill another Perk. And then Killer MAins will AGAIN complain about Survivors all using the same Perks when every other Perk gets nerfed - BL nerfed, not useable anymore. DH nerfed then, so everyone will be running Sprint Burst. Wonder why, when every other Perk gets nerfed?
Also, it should be fine to have a Perk that can cover for a mistake, when we consider that Killers are having Bloodlust, which is the biggest "cover up for mistakes" in the game.
EDIT: Let alone that Survivors just adapted (something Killer Mains are demanding on a regular basis) - it did not work like it should work with Dedicated Servers, so it is only used for Distance. Before that was the case, nobody complained about Dead Hard (or people start to complain because they know that it seems to work if they spam the Forum with Nerf-Threads).
2 -
In that case the speed/time should be increased (or maybe make the buggy curved DH we saw earlier an actual feature), because the perk would be completely destroyed by this.
The perk is hard to balance without a full rework, really shows how terrible it is in design
0 -
Well if you cant see how survivors having a "Press E to undo mistake" perk I really do not know what to say. It needs a change, and if everyone goes over to sprint burst I really wouldn't care, sure it'd be trash for stealth killers but at least I wouldn't see 4 DH.
Oh god not the "Killer MAins", as everyone who complains about the survivor side is a killer main. k dud.
BL got nerfed to make haddonfield less tragic to play on, it did not become "unusable" at all unless you crutched off of haddonfield offerings and though dry humping main took skill.
BL isn't that comparable to DH, but I see what you mean. BL is still here because of terrible loop and map design, and from how they've completely butchered the most recent map reworks (crotus realms and game), it's here to stay because they apparently can't balance loops.
1 -
When you use dh you should just teleport to the hook. It will be fine then.
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