Bubba
Listen, if you wanna hook camp or slug or tunnel or whatever, fine, but Bubba is the one killer where literal face-camping guarantees him a kill, because even with counter perks, like Borrowed Time, he can hit repeatedly through players with his insta-down ability. Why is he able to hit multiple people with his ability? It can effectively take out the person saving, hit the person with borrowed time twice immediately, and still keep going. Again, I don't care if he wants to hook camp; there are perks to counter that, but Bubba flat out ignores the perks and is the only killer guaranteed success for camping, and even if players ignore him, he just camps the next player. The point is that, unlike other killers who camp, perks cannot enable saving the survivor at all without guaranteeing Bubba another down. He's the only killer that is truly rewarded for playing like a shitbag. By all means, play how you want, but don't reward it by enabling it to outright ignore the perks designed to counter that type of play. Bubba was bad enough in this regard before his rework, and while he certainly needed a rework, I was hoping it would be one designed to gear him away from hook-camping to win. Instead, he continues to be the one killer truly rewarded for doing so.
Comments
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What’s wrong with camping? That is Bubs cup of tea right there. If a killer camps it’s either because they are new, or just desperate to get points/kills. It’s annoying sure, but so is gen rushing. You take the good, you take the bad, you take the strokes, and there we have The Facts of Life.
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When you run into a killer like that, the best strategy is not to go for a save, and do gens instead.
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Bubba's like the best killer in the game. He's the only killer with an effective power that isn't controlled by the survivors. Of course you hate him.
Learn to circle tight corners on small tiles and you've pretty much got a solid counter to him, but most survivors just see him coming and run around willy nilly.
And if someone facecamps you just die and move on to the next game. Being camped is frustrating, sure, but it's not stressful in any way. Not anywhere near as stressful and infuriating as playing your best and giving everyone a clean fair match only to be messaged in post game that your trash or that they just *** your face. Oddly enough when I win a 4k as killer I never have the urge to trash talk anyone. It's not even really that satisfying because I feel bad most times afterward, I really only try for the points.
You should play bubba and then you'll start to understand how to counter him.
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Bubba is a good noobstomper. Good survivors will make your life a nightmare. They will run from one tile to another and you won't catch up with a chainsaw.
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I play bubba often, and yes, I’m guilty, I’m a bit of a camper.. The reason is because camping will help a bubba win! most times, bubba is hard to play without camping because if you attempt to chainsaw a survivor who is running for the save, they dodge you and you get stunned. Camping is really the best fit with bubba a lot..
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He gets to ignore a few of the perks while unhooking because he doesn't really have anything else at all going for him. If the chainsaw didn't down a Survivor instantly he'd literally just be an M1 Killer with a very large punishment (it's a free escape in most cases) for a fairly minor speed boost, which is completely absurd to ask for a Killer to become. They can't even just make him hit one Survivor with less of a tantrum either, since Hillbilly exists.
It is very unfortunate that this greatly rewards toxic behaviour obviously, but that's an issue with that specific Bubba main's bad attitude and the general animosity in the community, not specifically the Killer itself. Really, all you can do is gens and leave the poor soul to die on the hook if you see a Bubba facecamping (please don't leave friends hanging just because the match has a Bubba though, he may not be camping).
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He also becomes next to useless if you hold W and press space bar a lot on a map with decent windows.
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Bubba is a solid mid tier At best. not even worth being a high tier due to how bad he is 100% against good survivors,
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I am not new to the game, and I know how to play Bubba. I'm not saying I have any issues with how his chainsaw ability works. I even said I clearly don't care if killers want to camp. Everything is supposed to have a counter-play, whether it's with a strategy or a perk. There are perks to counter hook-campers, but there's an issue when a killer (or survivor) just totally eliminates perks or abilities. For example, they just did a rework of the perk Slippery Meat because it unfairly applied to Trapper's abilities.
Perks like DS exist to counter tunneling, and perks like Borrowed Time exist to counter hook camping. Bubba's ability simply ignores those perks. That is the issue I have. The strategy cannot simply be to never get caught, since chases inherently favor killers, unless you're someone like the Nurse, because she's slower than survivors. Killers like bubba are default 15% faster, and gain more speed as a chase progresses. It's not an issue of not knowing how to avoid his chainsaw ability. It's an issue of, if he presses you, he will catch you, because, unless he's totally garbage, the game will grant the killer the favor to end the chase.
I don't hate Bubba; I just think it's ridiculous that he has an unfair advantage over both survivors and other killers. I can see where you'd think that "having a power that isn't controlled by survivors" would make me hate him, because it seems like your perspective is that it's cool that killers control survivor perks, but not the other way around.
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That's why they reworked him. Again, I believe he needed a rework, but something that would actually focus on actual gameplay, instead of siting in front of a hook with a free win because he can instantly down everyone in the area at once. People talk about him being special because his ability can't be controlled by survivors, but his ability completely controls whether survivors can even attempt a hook save, regardless of what perks are being run. Hook camping should be counter-able, period. I don't care if people want to do it; they're perfectly entitled, but there should be counters to it. People say hook camping is a strategy, but when two remaining survivors playing against a camping bubba decide to "strategize" by staying hidden for the rest of the match, instead of working on Gens so the killer can down and camp them too, it's reportable.
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Perfect, what do you suggest as a solution?
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I already said there is nothing wrong with camping, but it should be counterable, and with Bubba, it's not. He's rewarded for it. He's a normal speed killer with an insta-down that just got reworked so he would be more mobile, and yet, they didn't gear away from the obvious issue with him: Hook Camp King, because there's literally no way to counter a Bubba who decides to play like that, other than to just ignore the player and wait for him to camp the next. But if he widdles down to two and those last two hide, they get reported for holding the game hostage. Bubba gets to control how our experience goes, but we can't control how his goes in return.
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LoL, That's double standard! when talk about DS, killer main said it need a nerf. (According to 4th floor "Sadsnacks") So why this killer not just move on to the next game. (According to 2nd floor "poomanchu")Survior who bring the DS. If a somebody have DS it’s either because they are new, or just desperate to get points/escape.It’s annoying sure, but so kill other survivors. You take the good, you take the bad, you take the strokes, and there we have The Facts of Life.
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Sucks when something has no counter play doesn't it? this is how bubba players feel when going against survivors with all their no counterplay bs
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That's the problem. The game should revolve around the killer's skill, abilities, and perks. Not just the ability to sit in front of a hook with an insta-down that can hit everyone at once. There should never be a situation where a killer can simply prevent you from being able to perform a necessary action. I didn't say delay or make more difficult, but flat out prevent, even if you have perks designed to counter such a strategy. Killers get their own unique powers, as well as the perks, and get to play how they want. Survivors are just empty husks that come with perks, but if they pull some crappy stunt against a killer, such as hiding all game, it's reportable because it ruins a killer's experience. But somehow, hook-camping isn't despite the fact that chases are inherently in the killer's favor. Limited pallets, decent space between jungle-gyms, faster speeds by default, with increasing speeds as a chase goes on. If you pit an equally skilled survivor and killer against one another, the chase favors the killer, as long as he can keep a chase going for at least 30 seconds. Even speed-boosting perks for survivors, which have a cd of 45 seconds, don't help because as long as a killer is chasing a survivor, their exhaustion timer doesn't go down like it used to. In other words, if a killer is bad enough that they can't catch you in 45 seconds, that's unfair, but survivors are simply expected to not get caught in chases that clearly favor the killer, or you deserved to be hook camped.
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Not with the new Africa-sized hitboxes, he doesn't. Plus, he can resort to M1s and still get you. Even if Bubba totally sucks with his chainsaw, if you can m1 a survivor twice, you get to hook camp with the chainsaw.
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You are absolutely correct that there needs to be something you can do about toxic players, but you can't balance a Killer around people like that anymore than you can balance Solo Queue Survivors around the playstyles of SWF. You cannot give Survivors a super strong option to specifically defeat him either, since that would screw over regular Bubba mains AND every other Killer.
It's true that Preventing chainsaw from being able to chain or hit Survivors twice in one swing would stop Bubba Facecamping, but it would also ruin him for the people who play him normally. I don't know the solution personally, but I do not think they should make drastic changes based solely on people NOT playing the game normally.
Also for the record, if you know it's Bubba that you're facing and you save the Survivor while he's still within walking distance or inside his Terror Radius it is not camping whatsoever and you are just a moron who failed your friend. Wait a little bit, guys. Only a goodie two shoes Killer main would just give you a pass for such a silly decision.
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Yes he does. Also it's desync not hitboxes; and his chainsaw is usually pretty good about that except maybe for window bumps so there is almost no real difference there. I've played as and against him, and this is still the case even on the current update.
Also if a killer is reduced to only M1s and nothing else- you're in a much MUCH better spot than he his lol.
Lastly, leatherface face camp is a problem absolutely.
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I think the fix is to treat him the same way they treat killers like Charlotte and Victor. You can't hook a survivor, stand by the hook, and switch between the two. Bubba should probably not be able to use his ability when too close to a hook either. Then he can chain kill idiots all grouping up all he likes, but can't face-camp someone with an insta-down charged and ready to plow through the person doing the save, a protection perk, and then the person he just hooked. Again, I don't care if killers want to camp; perks were created to counter that strategy, but allowing killers to simply ignore those perks is ridiculous. We'd like variety in gameplay too. BHVR appears to be pushing survivors into a position of simply shutting up and doing gens. If a killer chases you, you just have to go down and accept whatever they choose to do with you. If they want to slug you, accept it. Hook camp? Accept it. The counter is that you shouldn't have gone down, but you didn't really have a choice in the matter, as chases inherently favor the killer, so if you're a new survivor, I guess your enjoyment of the game is going to suck. If you're an experienced survivor, you're just going to get more experienced killers that will still use those same cheesy tactics.
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That's actually an interesting idea, but I'd like it to be on a trial basis before a full implementation (one that works, not their current one). There is very high potential for Survivors to abuse that by running to hooks for protection during a chase (it would have to stop his chainsaw outright or it will not work at all as a way to stop facecamping) or some other unforeseen perk combination that drags Bubba from Mid Tier to the bottom.
I would like to point out that Bubba only ignores the perks that activate during the injured state though, and that this change would screw regular Leatherface mains out of punishing survivors who rush hooks immediately while he is still around. (The minute this change happens you can bet that every Survivor will immediately start to bully all Bubbas).
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Everything should be on a trial basis before it's fully implemented. The issue with that is that BHVR does these trails, and then manages to break it before they implement it into the live game.
To be a bit more specific, he shouldn't be barred from using his ability and approaching a hook WHILE using it. He just shouldn't be able to charge it up near a hooked survivor. Charging near empty hooks is fine. Charlotte and Victor can switch freely near hooks, provided there's no survivor on it.
The other potential fix would be to allow things to be business as usual, but make it so when he uses his sweep and hits a survivor affected by Borrowed Time or a similar perk, it hits them as it normally would, but stops the chainsaw, without incurring the penalty or cooldowns. He could charge it right back up, but it wouldn't instantly down through the perk. Keep in mind, the issue isn't that it one hits through the perk, it rapid hits multiple times. It should force a stop on the first hit instead of following up with an immediate second hit.
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If he can just charge up the saw outside and follow cheeky Survivors in to the restricted zone then it simply will not stop facecamping at all. They'd just figure out the distance and wait there, I think you are underestimating how much that man can fly given the right addons. Not to mention it would just make those toxic Bubba's slug and stand over you instead. I guess that's slightly less oppressive though?
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The point is that it shouldn't be a one and done. Again, I don't care about killers using those strategies, so long as they have counters. Perks are those counters. As such, killers shouldn't have built-ins designed to simply ignore a multitude of perks and let one person control the game. It's no different than a survivor hiding instead of finishing gens. The only difference there is WHO is controlling the game. But a survivor doing it is reportable. A killer doing it is "strategy."
Additionally, Slugging a survivor at least allows them to crawl away and do whatever. They also have much longer on the floor than they would on a hook. Personally, I think if a killer is going to leave someone slugged for 4 minutes, that player should eventually have the ability to auto-recover completely. That, or make it so when survivors are picked up and healed, the bleed-out timer is reset instead of continuing where it left off the next time they go down. Then slugging would waste just as much of a killer's time as it would survivors, which would be a reasonable punishment and compel killers to actually pick up and hook survivors. The killer can put them on a hook or keep waiting should they manage to get picked back up. In the meantime, a slugged survivor can crawl to a corner and guarantee work on gens.
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You have bunna who can facecamp and ignore bt.
Simple solution just rush the gens if he does that and move to the next match.
Every killer has some things you don't like but they're good at.
Twins are good for slugging.
Hag can easily teleport back to the hook and get you when you set her trap of.
Especially with make your choice, or equip mint rag and she becomes very nasty.
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He doesn't have control over any survivor perks. Like at all. If he manages to get more than one hit on you while BT is active then you need to work on your chase skills. Chases absolutely do not favor killers lol How many rainbow or all red lobbies have you played against???
I used to struggle with chases too, and I still do on maybe 40% of maps and I used to think that chases favored killers too until I played killer into purple ranks and got demolished by red rank lobbies pretty consistently for a while. Which isn't to say that all red rank survivors are amazing, I think there's plenty who got there just from playing a lot or getting a lot of hatch escapes consistently from friends in swf helping them out or there's plenty who've been in red ranks so long they just opt to meme around half the time.
But it does sound like you're struggling with chases more than any particular killer. You could literally solve your BT Bubba dilemma simply by going for a vault/pallet or small tile to loop tight corners around immediately after being unhooked. If I'm not mistaken you get a speed boost after he hits you while BT is active, even if it's with his chainsaw so idk how you're managing to still get caught??? I used to play a lot of bubba and I think this scenario happened maybe once and it was because the survivor was cocky due to the BT and tried running around the hook rather than go for a vault or something, because they thought they could make a save right away due to the fact the survivor who rescued them with BT forced a hook trade immediately, and no I wasn't camping survivors are just dumb and try to unhook within the first 3 seconds of someone getting hooked.
I can empathize with you on the level that it does suck when you get stomped for what feels like a dumb reason that seems unfair or frustrating but it really sounds like you haven't put nearly enough time into playing killer to understand playing survivor more.
Slugging sucks too but if you played enough killer you'd understand why a lot more killers do it. It's simply not enough to have one or even two people on hook. The killer is outnumbered and has to take survivors out of playing the game or progressing towards objectives in order to stand a chance. In most matches if all survivors have at least two brain cells the first 2-3 gens can be done in the first 3 minutes. If the killer wants to win they have to resort to some scummy tactics. Most killers would probably be more chill but they get tilted to playing aggressively because even if they play by the survivor rulebook to appease the other players they're still going to get some messed up harassment in the post game chat or via the console messenger. Do you have any idea what it's like to play nice and clean, and I mean not hitting/hooking anyone within the first 2 minutes of the match, no camping, no tunneling, no slugging, no BM (hitting on hook, shaking head), letting the last survivor have hatch and still getting some message afterwards to go ######### or "we just *** your face*" or something messed up?
I'm amazed anyone is playing killer. I only play killer for daily challenges now or rift challenges and that's only if it's a challenge for a strong killer I know I won't be humiliated with. Which is the reason why when I play survivor now I give zero **** about how the killer decides to play. More than anything I find myself getting tilted over potato teammates in solo queue. With all of that said playing survivor should take skill otherwise what's the point? The killers skill shouldn't matter as much in that equation because they're THE KILLER, they're meant to be oppressive and supernaturally powerful otherwise you literally have no skill necessary to prove yourself against at which point you should just play against AI.
I swear to god survivors whine constantly. There was literally a thread here months ago from some survivor main with <100 posts saying killers should have a slowdown after landing from a long fall. Srsly.
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So I think you just kind of glanced at what I wrote instead of actually reading it. When you come off a hook, and bubba rolls up with his chainsaw, hitting you twice before you're even able to regain control of your character, at what point do you expect me to find a vault? In that sense, he has the control because the survivor being unhooked cannot even move before he's chain sawing through both the person doing the unhooking, your BT, AND you, in half a second. It takes longer for the unhook action that it does for him to start up his chainsaw. The fact you completely ignored what I said, and defaulted to "You just don't know how to find and vault a window when coming off the hook," proves you didn't even bother reading.
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