Dead Hard vs Blood Lust

Agree, send both to hell pls

Agreed. Dead Hard and Bloodlust are both reward-for-failure-relics at this point. I wouldn't miss either of these two things.

Yeah but DH take perk slot and blood lust not, thats why is problem.

Thats not the point of this thread. But thanks for repeating what others already have said.

Blood lust ONLY exists because of infinite loops which has been said many MANY times.

Its foolish to say its for anything else as the developers not that long ago turned Blood Lust off to see if they had fixed the infinite loops.

There are still A LOT of semi/true infinite loops so bloodlust was turned back on because the game still needs it to make up for bad map design.

So there is no equivalence between the two as one is a good survivor perk and the other is a baseline mechanic meant to break infinite loops.

Bloodlust doesn't necessarily kick in after making a mistake though. Sometimes, loops are just ridiculously strong and chained one after the other. Sure, they don't always spawn like that but it's RNG so it does happen and depending on the map you're playing on it happens more often or less often. I've had a stupid set up as survivor on the reworked Father Campbells chapel yesterday. It was a long junge gym into the shack into another normal loop. If you're a solid survivor, the killers odds of catching you right there with just the normal loop pallet, the jungle gym and the shack windows are just extremely low. I suppose that's more of an RNG problem which also screws survivors over at times, but nevertheless bloodlust in this scenario does plasterfix the ridiculous set ups to a degree.

That said, for any other normal loop bloodlust really becomes just annoying to go against. When you're in a chase with a killer and they just run around the loop a couple of times until they get bloodlust 3, you really feel powerless as survivor because you're stuck. You can't really leave the loop because the killer will be right on top of you so you're just screwed and not because the killer outplayed you, but because the game gave it to the killer.

So yeah I do see the similarities with Dead Hard where you don't exactly need to be skilled to outplay the other side. It's just a game mechanic or perk that grants you this. I'd say I see more people using Dead Hard than bloodlusting killers but it should be something to keep in mind for future updates either way.

In general they should just fix the RNG, get rid of the ridiculously strong or weak set ups and make them overall solid set ups where both sides have a fair chance. The killer should be able to get the survivor, but the survivor should also be able to have a shot at escaping. It probably requires a lot of work though, so I don't see it happen anytime soon. Once, the RNG is gone and all loops are normalized then bloodlust should in my opinion be removed. Dead Hard should be changed too, because like you said when we're talking about "granting a free down or escape" they have similar effects.

Unsafe Loops are fair loops. IMO there should be a little bit less Pallets and way more unsafe Pallets, this would result in Killers not being forced to break Pallets immediatly and Survivors not running out of Pallets because that Rank 12 Meghead threw every Pallet in 2 minutes.

But for that, Bloodlust needs to go. A unsafe (or fair) Loop means that both players can play it. I can drop the Pallet at an unsafe Loop and run the Killer around, faking a vault which might allow me to gain distance. This is not possible with Bloodlust because at some point (even Bloodlust 1), the Killer becomes too fast to do that. So the fair Loops becomes unfair because the Killer gets a Speedboost for not being able to outplay the Survivor and just circling the Loop while pressing "W".

Some Loops are too unsafe, e.g. Hawkins loops are just "respect Pallet, get a hit" for the Killer. But something like the outside Loops of Badham are pretty fair.

And during the Bloodlust experiment, most of the time as Killer or Survivor I did quite well at such kind of Loops. But I also got run around the two Pallets next to the School on Badham by a Survivor, I was not able to get her - because she was better than me. And it is ok that she is better than me, it would have been unfair if I would get a Speedboost because she was outplaying me.

If a loop is unsafe, isn't it already in the killer's favour because it'd be really easy to get a hit? If the survivor stays at the unsafe loop after taking a hit, that's their fault for not using the speed boost from the hit to run off elsewhere.

Bloodlust will only work at unsafe loops if they're already injured from earlier on in the chase and then ran to an unsafe loop. If a killer has to spend 15 seconds at an unsafe loop where it's already easy to get a hit anyway, they're just a bad killer.

You think the speed boost from Bloodlust is unfair when you're being looped at a building that has one or two god pallets?

Bloodlust is irrelevant for those structures since you need to break the Pallets anyway, which removes Bloodlust.

Bloodlust 1 is fine. It helps out a little but it takes a while to kick in first and breaking pallets and using your power removes it so there's little issue there. Bloodlust 2 and 3, while dumb don't pose much of an issue either because if the killer is relying on tiers 2 and 3 to even catch you then they've wasted A LOT of time doing so and put themselves in a horrible position.

Dead hard is another thing entirely. In theory I wouldn't have a problem with it, you use it to dodge and attack and buy a little bit of time but it's rarely ever like that. The most common use for it is so somebody can deadhard to a window or pallet and extend the chase and that really kinda sucks sometimes. Especially for a pallet, you as a killer can make a good read at a loop and catch a survivor off guard but they can just simply undo your read and dead hard to a pallet, throw it down and rob you of your down for 30 seconds or more. It really sucks sometimes because no matter how well you played the loop they can just simply rectify their mistake and there's really nothing you can do about it aside from praying that server detection favours you over them. Then there's the whole issue with people being able to dead hard over trappers bear traps which is just really dumb. But in all honesty I have no idea how you'd rework the perk without making it bad, in a certain way dead hard kinda reminds me of Flash from League of Legends. A spell that was so powerful is basically defined the game's ENTIRE balance philosphy. Although I'm not saying Dead Hard is that powerful but it gives a hell of a lot utility for what little cost it needs. I just wish it more like Lithe or something, that perk is pretty rewarding when you make good reads by gaining extra distance to another loop but you get nothing out of it if you're making mistakes.

Tbh you survivor mains are full of #########. I play both sides and and am very good at both and it’s getting boring how easy it is for me to escape as survivor lately and I literally use my ambulance build for fun which is botany knowledge, we’ll make it, resilience and that new Felix perk that gives +14% faster unhook and heal with each injured survivor and it’s disgustingly easy to get out as a solo 6-7 matches out of 10 and if I’m really selfish it’s even 7-8. You guys have dead hard which 90% of the time survivors go through me, idk I can’t with dead hard but often pc players can so idk what that is, you have sprint burst which lets survivors literally run at you and be invulnerable and make a huge distance which is another 30+ sec longer chase, than you have spine chill which gives you a notification 36 meters away, that is enough time to go hide in corners and be useless and leta not forget lately lots of med kits with borrowed time or syringe.

Before I get survivors sending me gifs with “this is bait” and other crap, I use kindred sometimes too and empathy and I see what you guys are doing which is basically being completely useless. You get 3 spine chill gamers with dead hard and med kits in a match which equals 3 bad loopers, 2 will be useless, 1 will get chased and throw pallet after pallet down and since no one is doing gens and no pallets left, who’s gonna run killer on TL wall? Exactly no one.

I can’t stop laughing when I hook a tea bagger with dead hard and when my bbq shows me 3 survivors crouched 40 sec away from me opposite side of the map.

There is no equivalence... wanna know why?

PERK vs BUIlT-IN MECHANIC

Bloodlust isn’t even balanced in this game anymore. There are no more infinites and if you are getting ran at an “infinite” then that means you were always bad at chases to begin with.