In which non-selfish scenario is slugging/tunneling/camping necessary?
I'm still kinda stuck on the response not_queen and the devs gave in the QA stream when the question of if there's plans to do something about tunneling etc came up.
They said that in some situations it's 'necessary'. And I am trying to think of a single situation in which that'd be the case.
Now, you could argue that when taking out frustration against a toxic swf it's 'justified', but... that's fighting one problem with another (toxicity vs toxicity).
And all other situations... I can't see necessity there. IN-UNIVERSE one could argue that killers do this because they are scared of the entity's punishment, but we are NOT in-universe. We are all humans (mostly) playing a video game against other humans. So, when exactly is scummy gameplay 'necessary'?
Cause all scenarios I can think of that don't involve genuinely toxic survivors would have tunneling/etc mean the killer has their ego hurt and can't stand the idea of not getting an EZ 4K in... And catering to people like that is... not good.
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It is necessary when you think it is necessary. That's it.
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you need to change your delivery, the current one's fortune cookies suck
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Team mate induced tunneling is a big one, and usually the most common in solo queue.
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It’s a PvP game, neither side is there to ensure the opponents fun. That’s like saying “don’t go on a kill streak in call of duty because the other player feels bad about getting owned!”
All it takes is a few toxic SWF games and you will be tunneling people out left and right. I certainly do. And I’ve played enough it’s habit at this point.
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Slugging is a means of compounding pressure. You might be dodging a DS, you might just want more survivors to be bust doing something other than generators. (Before the salty comments about DS, I've literally had survivors run at me because they had DS and felt safe)
Camping can be done to punish survivors for pressuring gens over prioritizing a save. If a survivor is 10 seconds from hitting struggle, it might be worth the time to force them to lose a health state.
Tunneling is needed when you only have 1 person dead on hook and you absolutely need a survivor out of the game.
Slugging is the most needed. Against good survivors, if you don't slug at all, you probably won't win. But as all things it should be done in moderation.
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I hope they do something about that when they make 12 hooking viable.
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It isn't a fortune cookie answer. When to Herd, Camp, Tunnel, Slug, or Mori (and many others) is entirely dependent upon when you think you should do it or just when you WANT to do it. These are all legal, valid tactics in the game. There is no qualifier for "unselfish" use. You play the game as you think it should be played in a given match to achieve your objectives. Your job as Killer is to kill; that's the long and the short of it. Your original question is the wrong way to think about it. There are no unofficial rules, no survivor's rules for Killers. YOU decide if/when it is appropriate. That is all.
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Is it scummy to do the objective in a way that's unfun for the survivors?
If so, is it just as scummy to do the objective in a way that's unfun for the killer?
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It's cause it is a killer based game I just got camped n tunneled by ghost face wich he is my favorite killer to run normally I don't get why killers play later me that I don't when I play killer just rude people the fact the don't bane people for playing like garbage killer or survivor if you play like trash you should be band from teabagging on hook to tunneling and camping they need to get rid of people that play like filth I don't know why they don't
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Non-selfish? None, because wanting to win is selfish. I don't really think there's anything wrong with wanting to win, but it is technically putting your needs above someone else's.
But there's a lot of scenarios where slugging and camping are the correct play, and tunneling is... Complicated, because it's definition changes from person to person, but it's still not always BM or laziness.
Example: Slugging.
Um, literally snowballing. Like, by definition. Not much else to say here I guess, except that sometimes it can be impossible to hook a survivor (thanks to their own actions) and so it's either let them escape or bleed out.
Example: Camping.
You've got a lot in one area. A couple of worked-on gens, someone on a hook, maybe two people on a hook, maybe a hook and a slug, the other gens are all done and you're just staying in the area, maybe you see scratchmarks or heard some noise and you're looking for a potential rescuer, whatever. It's courteous to leave, sure, but it's also not the right play if you're trying to win, and once again it's hard to blame people for wanting to win.
Example: Tunnelling.
Okay, this one is a fustercluck. Seriously, it's so messy I don't even know if I want to touch it, because there's no way to mitigate the act of tunnelling someone unless they were BMing or something. At least when you're camping you can trade hooks. But, it's often the case that survivors will get farmed, and while it's ######### for the farmee, the killer isn't the one to blame and the punishment should lie with the farmer, which in my games they never get away with it because I hate farming with a burning passion. But, a farmed survivor often resembles a tunneled survivor even if the killer goes for and hooks the farmer first. And, as much as it sucks to say, if the killer has no chase and returns to the unhook, they are usually faced with the choice to either chase the moaning, bleeding person or look for the healthy one that could be anywhere.
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Selfish? Killer is build that way. It's the most effective way to take pressure out of the game and increase your win chances. Survivor on the other hand rewards you for being altruistic and not focusing on the objective all the time.
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If the killers didn't get penalized for survivors getting healed, or if survivors could not get healed, then tunneling would have less sense..
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As well as you should never loop, heal, save others quickly, ... right? Killers want to have fun too.. 🤣🤣
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Darn Right 😎😎
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I played a game last night on yamoaka estate, 2 gens done, and i caught a Jane working on a gen in my 3 gen area. Downed her and hooked her right next to the gen, went to kick another one of my gens with pop, found a Dwight, kicked the gen and chased him back to the Jane and downed him trying to unhook Jane and hooked him nearby. So now ive got 2 people hooked right by a gen I'm trying to regress, in my 3 gen area. Does it make sense for me to go hunting the other 2 survivors? No I'm gonna stay in my area because they are gonna come to me.
3rd gen gets done, I'm still sitting pretty. Elodie comes in trying to get an unhook and i get her downed as well. I have no open hooks nearby if i take her somewhere she'll wiggle out, so i have to slug her. You can call it scummy or toxic if you want, but its definitely the right way to play that situation.
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Unless you're playing Nurse or Spirit, tunnelling/slugging/camping is a must if you want to win against a good or even decent survivor team that has the strongest perks they can bring.
That's why it's necessary.
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Camping
- The Exit Gates are open or an exit gate is 99'd. The killer's only objective is to kill. No point chasing survivors toward the exit if you have a guy on the hook. You secure that kill and/or hope to take down another survivor who comes for the save.
- You know a survivor is in the area, waiting to unhook immediately.
- You can get someone to their second stage on the first hook because the survivors screwed up
Tunneling
- One survivor is on death hook, one survivor has been hooked once, and the other two haven't been hooked at all. Getting one survivor out of the game is a smarter move than going for someone on their second or first hook. (This is why it's important to sometimes take a hookstate for survivors, instead of staying unhooked all game)
- The guy who came for the unhook 10 seconds after you left is hiding and you can only find the survivor who just got unhooked.
- Everyone is healthy, the EGC is going or the Exit Gates are 99'd, and you can't instantly down anyone else.
Slugging
- You need to create pressure, and the opportunity arises to chase another survivor
- DS
- You have 2 dead, third guy is on death hook and you down him, and the 4th guy is waiting by the hatch
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The killer is built to be a selfish role. When you play as killer, you play for you. You don't play as a team. If you fail, you have no one to rely on. It's you versus the team. It's why killer feels like a harder role then Survivor- if you mess up as killer, there's no one else who can help you correct your mistake. Personally, it's a part of the reason I don't like playing killer, as I like the teamwork aspect. As for your post though, there are valid reasons for camping, slugging, and tunneling.
- Slugging
Slugging, in my opinion, is the least agregous of the three, and necessary for the game. Killers like Oni, Nurse, or T3 Myers can get a lot of info from perks like Infectious Fright. If it procts, it's better to spread pressure. For Oni and Myers, they have to get as much done in their small windows of time for their max power as possible, or they're wasting it. They have to slug if they want to even dream of getting full use of their abilities. Slugging to bait out things such as flashlight blinds or pallet saves are also valid strategies.
- Tunneling
Usually not half as necessary as tournaments would have you believe, but the fact is, if you want the game to be easier, you just have to get the weakest link out fastest. As many have said before, it doesn't take skill to sit and hold M1 on a gen. Once again, I usually don't think it's necessary, but sometimes it is against good teams, as without it, the game is insanely difficult, and possibly borderline impossible. Sometimes it's also just a case that... No one wants to get a 0K. There's nothing worse as killer then getting crapped on all game by people much more skilled then you, and not even be able to get a kill from it. It's demoralising, and sometimes, camping is necessary to not feel like absolute trash after the match. And sometimes... Well, if the killer comes back to hook, and can't find the unhooker, but could find the guy who just got off hook, they probably are just going to take the next hook state because they can't find anyone, and no one helped.
- Camping
Few reasons for this one. One can be just securing a kill when it's end game. Gens are all done, and it's either patrol hook or attempt to patrol doors, hook is usually the better option. The killer might also just think there's someone around hook, and takes a minute to look around for the survivor that was never there (Definitely has happened to me before as Killer...). The team might have a history of hook bombing, making it better to just stay close because you know the unhooker is around a corner. Killer might have left, couldn't find anyone, and then returned to hook because they saw crows fly near it, or they knew the unhooker was coming. Camping is a strat that also usually doesn't really need to happen, like tunneling, but there are niche reasons why you would, and reasons that are understandable. (Like camping an endgame hook.)
I'm just gonna say, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you just haven't played much killer. Don't get me wrong, all of these are crappy to go against as Survivor. But the Killer does usually do them for good reason, unless they're just straight up toxic.
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It's necessary when trying to do the damn Heroic Cause challenge. 😭
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Tunnel and slug as you see fit. But you can't complain when survivors get tired of that play style and bring perks to counter it.
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I'm a Twins main. I have to slug in order to win.
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You left out taking triple o”s out of the game so they can’t give info out to there team
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Why are killers obligated to play by your rules?
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Sometimes you need to use more aggressive tactics to hold your own. Any reasonable person should understand that. When it's done to make others miserable is when it becomes unnecessary.
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Best way to avoid all slugging in a game: Have this challenge activated.
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Why? By whose say so? YOU?
These sorts of posts are why this meme endures:
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I am SO glad I know NONE of you people who are crying 'its a pvp game' irl
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It's a strategy. You don't fault Survivors for being efficient on gens, why fault Killers for being efficient on hooks.
The best thing for a Killer to do is make the game a 3v1 ASAP.
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What is the definition of fair in this context?
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'efficient'... is probably not the word you are looking for here.
because 'efficient' means 'knowing the maps, killer and common tactics well enough to get kills in without resorting to scummy gameplay. but I guess that'd require some basic skill of people
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You mean like flashlights, toolboxes, or medkits?
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And? You could say the same thing about Survivors using perks like DS or DH.
Tunneling the weakest player out, while not "nice", is a legitimate tactic. As a Killer (other than Nurse or Spirit) you are at a HUGE disadvantage in a 4v1 scenario when facing a decent team. It is in your best interest to make the game a 3v1 as fast as possible.
Some people like to do that slowly by whittling people down, one hook state at a time. Others like to remove one person early, then play relaxed.
Conversely, as a Survivor, you want to do 3 gens quickly. Preferably, all three in the middle area of the map, to avoid a 3-gen scenario. This puts a huge amount of pressure on the Killer and forces him to choose between losing fast by chasing one Survivor, or losing slow by refusing to chase anyone and prioritizing gens.
Either way, it's just being efficient and playing to your advantage. Nothing wrong with either scenario.
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Exit gates are already powered. All bets are off.
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When the only survivor the killer can find is one that recently got unhooked because their teammate is terrified of the killer and is hiding instead of taking aggro or helping them
What is the killer supposed to do? Ignore them and look around for someone who might not even be there? Leave and do something else? Going after them again might not be nice but it's not like there's any viable alternative
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Totally scummy. Undoing my hits, hacking the gen speeds, toxically blinding the killer so he can't play!
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I also play a lot of Killer, have been playing for quite a while, but am still surprised when I play as a Survivor and the following happens:
Sacrifices: Cake, 2 x 100% Offering for all and an Event Offering.
I'm sitting at my gen working, hear a bubba knock down the first one. Okay, I'll wait and see what kind of bubba it is, if it camps and keep working. On the other side of the map, the next one is knocked down, like the first one he is not hooked. I continue to sit on the first gen and the third player goes down, far away from me. So I go to pick up one of the three, or at least wait for the first one to finally get picked up.
The end of the song is that I play to the 2 minutes with the Bubba catch, we finally all lie.
The Bubba goes out of the match with a measly 15000 points, I with just under 10000 and the rest with about 3000.
There was no reason for pressure. That was just an absolutely corrosive way of playing, and that's exactly the kind of play you encounter very often, unfortunately.
I can understand slugging, tunneling when the killer really needs to build pressure - but why play that way?
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I slug because I don't like hooking people, too many perks/game features give benefits to survivors for being hooked and Killers have a ton of ways to make slugging very frustrating and effective so I don't hook.
The game gets unbelievably easier when you remove the need to hook ever, I main pig and get all my 4k's from Bleed Out, RBT kills and Cypress Moris.
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Hate to tell you, but there is no such thing as unfair tactics. All of these tactics have counterplay.
Slugging has perks: UB, Soul Guard, WGLF, Desperate Measures. Or another survivor could just walk over and heal the slug.
Tunneling : DS or you could take hits for the tunneled survivor, or body block the killer to cause them to lose their target. You could all meet up with the tunneled one, and sprint off in 4 different directions, leaving 4 sets of scratchmarks.
Camping: DS+Deliverence, BT. And the most given piece of advise, "Split up and do gens" or work as a team to rescue the person on hook
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That’s true, but then you could also compare camping in DBD to spawn trapping in COD. Both are bad/unhealthy for the game and players on the receiving end. COD had this problem on one of the small maps and they changed the coding to make sure it doesn’t happen. This game just lets it happen
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Let's say I hook a survivor, see someone with BBQ and go in that direction but I can't find anyone. Now behind you, you hear that the survivor you hooked is being rescued. Now you have a choice:
A) you completely ignore and hope you find someone soon
B) you go back to the only place where you know for a fact 2 survivors are.
Most killers will go back because it's just the safer option. You know where half the team is, the other half could be across the map cleansing a totem or hiding in bushes for all you know. Then something magical happens called "solo queue survivor teammates". Rather than taking the chase, they instantly vanish and what's so beautiful about this is that the odds of the killer finding the moaning, bleeding survivor that was recently unhooked is much higher than the rank 10 locker Dweet that just got the unhook. As killer, you don't really have a choice here. You would have wasted so much time if you looked around for too long to find locker Dweet and just ignore the other survivor, so you go for the recently unhooked survivor to try and keep the pressure going.
Here's a scenario that happens surprisingly enough A LOT in solo queue
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Like others said necessary means its necessary to win. It doesnt matter whether its necessary bc the killer did too many mistakes or the survivor are too strong.
When someone wants to win in a pvp game you cant say no to him.
So when you do want it changed, its necessary that it isnt the best way to win. And thats a dev decision.
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