Why the trickster is weak, addon dependent, and kinda skilless.
Before I start yes I know he just came out, I know no one is prefect with him, and I know this is the PTB and things will change but he is simple and easy to analyze in this current state. This killer is one that is easy to learn, play, and we can already see his full potential.
For those that try to defend this killer with any argument related to "He just came out" It doesn't take a genius to analyze such a simple power as you can just read his power description and play a few games to figure out how powerful he is. Also since we have a very similar killer known as Deathslinger we can compare The Trickster to him as both their play styles are nearly identical as well as their weaknesses and strengths.
Why he is weak
This killer is basically a watered down Deathslinger. He has little counterplay in the open and at loops with short walls, lacks map pressure, can’t snowball due to needing 8 knifes to hit at base, and unlike Deathslinger walls you can’t fire over and vaults are a weakness meanwhile Deathslinger just needs enough time to turn the corner, aim, and fire with the survivor in sight.
The only thing this killer has over Deathslinger is being very dangerous to bodyblock against as he can down you and whoever you're protecting easily IF he has the ammo for it or if he enters main event and he can down survivors over pallets which Deathslinger can also due depending on the loop. He also takes way less skill as spamming your power at survivors will often result in them going down without you doing much this is especially true when he is in main event since he has unlimited knifes and moves at full speed. He is also very map dependent as a map like Lerry’s makes it difficult to hit survivors due to all the walls, turns, and vaults and you need to do that 8 times honestly he probably becomes the weakest killer in the game on that map.
Now addons
His addons are honestly his ONLY saving grace but his good ones are all rare or higher. Starting with his best combo it is Cut thru u single and trick blades, this combo depending on location, map, and loops allows you to quickly injure survivors as the knifes will go though survivors then bounce back to hit them again with extra "bleed". The next best combo is Cut thru u single and edge of revival as you can aim past survivors feet to hit them and make the knife explosion hit them again for extra "bleed". The only other addons worth running are extra knifes and the one that decreases a survivor's “bleed” meter and all but extra knifes and less “bleed” meter are purple addons. Worst part is his UR addons are actually really bad, your a 110% killer so his insta down addon isn’t too useful basically the same as clowns but worse and his other one requires good aim and screws you over when you miss just one knife but you can also just do better with one of the purple addon combos mentioned before.
Now what can the devs do to make this killer take more skill while also being just better
Honestly the only thing I can think of is decreasing his base throw rate and also decreasing the amount of knife hits you need, however in main event he should remain relatively the same. All this would do is increase the amount of skill needed to play him and make him slightly better. With how this killer is designed I don’t even think he should be 110% despite being a ranged killer especially with how he looks when running.
Comments
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I think he'll be fine, if not oppressive, once people get better with him.
The mode where you get Infinite knives with no slowdown is just insane.
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I mean you can't forget the killer *is* labelled as easy for his difficulty. He's not like huntress since she has hatchets and they're VERY limited so she requires skill to pinpoint well and aim at the survivor. It makes you feel good that being conservative of what you have left in your power while also being satisfied that you landed a hatchet hit
Trickster is a young lad who's been given an energetic and full of himself ego, he's got 60 knives and I feel like this route for him is understandable even if it comes out as skill-less in the end however I can see where devs put skill into consideration when they added the ricochet Add-on to his power in hopes of trick-shots that players would have to achieve for skill, but all in all while some part of the player base truly like skill-based killers there's also that side that likes fun killers gameplay wise. The Twins filled that spot for the skilled based side, The Trickster is filling up this spot for the fun based side of others, we'll have another Blight soon we'll just have to wait until that time
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yeah but as said he is basically Deathslinger even in main event.
He is easier to play, more oppressive as the knife spam will more then likely down you but Deathslinger does this but better and faster.
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It says difficulty easy for a reason. Clearly the game needs more console killers and this seems like a decent answer.
I get rainbow ranks almost every game as killer and I feel like it’s because there’s no in between. It’s either brand new killers or seasoned vets with thousands of hours. The rest get weeded out by the SWFs.
As a PC killer I don’t see much reason to play him over huntress/slinger, except for the fact you can down someone in a pretty funny fashion.
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are you sure hes weak? he has insane map pressure on the survivors pov. his terror radius is also insanely small, hes practically the new myers. sometimes you mistake him for a survivor. his hex perk demolishes TL and shack loops. his power is decent and it destroys certain loops.
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I mean I'm on console and play a decent amount of Deathslinger, i guess for those players who can't aim with a controller will like him but I see no reason to play him in fact it looks frustrating to do so.
I was really hoping to have a killer that was at least decent, also with how this killer works even if they did what I mentioned he would still be console friendly.
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HE IS LITERALLY DEATHLINGER
same TR, same gameplay but with more "counters".
Deathslinger isn't OP and doesn't have map pressure.
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Everyone was saying The Deathslinger would never be used because he is a "worse Huntress". But I think we all see that was a bad generalization. I just think we need time to see how things shake out.
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he gets 60 knives when he only has to hit 7. deathslinger has to reload after 1 harpoon shot but this guy can fire all he wants.
from my experience, id say it goes like this: Deathslinger>Trickster>Huntress
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I very rarely see console huntress/deathslinger. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a red ranked console pyramid head. It’s usually the more mechanically simple killers which is understandable due to the frame rate issues.
A weaker ranged killer who requires less precision doesn’t seem like a terrible idea or OP at all. People have been like “omg so broken” when he spams someone down but then forget huntress with a cooldown addon does it even faster. I think it just looks powerful because it’s seamless and looks like you are doing more damage when I’m sure huntress downs are way faster.
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Something you can do against a Deathslinger that you can't really do against the Trickster is bait the Deathslinger into bad shots. It's possible to fake your direction and get the Deathslinger to miss. I've faked going for a pallet to bait a Deathslinger shot and just ran to the next tile.
I don't see how you could ever bait the Trickster into bad shots. Not only is his power spammable, but he has 60 ammo at base meaning even if you bait his first shot and he misses it doesn't mean much when he can just throw more knives at your current location. The only upside is that without addons that increase the knives laceration damage, it takes 8 knives to damage you. But that just kinda leads into the old legion issue where legion could down survivors without much they can do, but it just took extra hits. I don't think The Trickster is as bad as old legion as if you break off from the Trickster for long enough the laceration bar does start to decrease.
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He does seems like inferior version of huntress and deathslinger. Still I don't know if buffing him will do him any good as in my opinion he's quite out of place in terms of his power's uses.
We have huntress for snowball and slinger for chase consistency. Trickster's power is watered down version of both slinger's & huntress's powers combined. I really don't know what it's main intent behing creating it was.
I don't see how we can buff him into some sweet spot where he feels unique. He'll either be better then huntress/deathslinger or worse as he has too much of both to have anything unique to his power that slinger/huntress don't already have and do better.
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Ok but he literally has the same chase gameplay of survivors trying to avoid getting hit with the ranged power the only difference is survivors have to move more and can't use pallets to prevent getting injured like Deathslinger.
If you can aim there isn't a reason to play him over the other 2 options and i know that is what was said about Deathslinger and Huntress but there was a major difference there and that was a lack of counterplay and Deathslinger being more stealthy. The Trickster is exactly the same as Deathslinger in that department the difference is Deathslinger will get faster downs and the Trickster is better at dealing with bodyblocking.
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I'm so sick of the "Skilless" argument. Do you not understand that having low-skill floor mechanics and character is a very important part of multiplayer game design?
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You're free to have an opinion like that but have you ever actually faced good deathslinger ? He'll down you sooner then trickster ever could dream of and quite possibly even faster then good huntress if he doesn't miss.
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I wasn't really focused on that part if you read what i typed, my main issue is that unless you can't aim there isn't a reason to play him over Deathslinger as it takes more time to down them yet has relatively the same lack of counterplay at loops.
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not really, most deathslingers i have faced are rank 14-17. his harpoon is insanely accurate yet i still dont get how people can literally miss trough a scope
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Ok but that doesn't mean he is weak it just means you haven't faced a good deathslinger it's like saying nurse sucks when you haven't faced a good one.
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It has a delay, not a hitscan. Medium and long shots require slinger to predict direction survivors will run to. Other then that, it's mainly impatience mixed with lack of experince or whater makes people miss these days.
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This.
As long as your low skill floor characters neither dominate nor get dominated consistently they are good for your game. There are many reasons for this sort of design, such as new players who want to learn 'aim based' characters and start out on Trickster as a good 'training wheels' 110 killer, players wanting to rest their brain after a very intense trapper match or wrists after an intense nurse match, or just wanting to have a bit of a more mindless fun experience that still works (That is part of why legion is popular! You can get VERY good at legion but at the same time its easy to play him as a mindless 'I just wanna stab people' killer).
Right now we have a huge gap in killer power based on unique skills, and while some of these unique skills are easy to learn (it isn't hard to get good at Spirit for example) they are still pretty exotic. Having a killer that you can just pick up and do ok with even vs decent survivors will be a good thing.
And because I am an amazing psychic and already can hear the argument: no survivors don't need a 'mindless perk' themselves because their role already comes with a lot of downtime, breathing room, and low energy moments. The need for a 'I am just gunna probably kill two survivors by putting in a reasonable amount of effort and not go significantly higher or lower than that unless I do REALLY well' killer is unique to killers, who basically have no downtime or rest points in their gameplay loop. Killers kinda... NEED a breather killer, and Trickster might be a good one to match Legion.
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not every killer needs to be a powerhouse.
he's a lot of fun to play. that's the only requirement
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I think it's a combination of people not realizing his weapon is not hit-scan and not having the foresight to plan ahead when they are in a loop. At short range, he shuts down certain loops pretty damn hard if the survivor doesn't know how to mind game.
I've only put a few hours into him at the green ranks a couple weeks back, and it took me several games for the weapon to "click" with me. Look forward to seeing what else he can do once I learn his nuances.
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You can loop him for days before taking a single state of damage from Laceration if someone lacks aim - Literally minutes.
But hey, no skill required.
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how is he skill-less if he requires more hits to down survivors. it means you have to be more accurate with his ability.
I do not think tomahawks and bolt action rifles and machine gun use same skills. they're based off flick skill.
He is more of machine gunner, so he is more about tracking skill than flick.
Both characters require different skill-sets. I think its very early to say he is too weak but he sure takes a lot of hits in term of tracking skill to be effective. I predict that his counter-play is going to be zig zaging to make tracking as hard as possible.
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Quote: "I very rarely see console huntress/deathslinger. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a red ranked console pyramid head."
Actually, you have seen a red rank console Pyramid Head. Me.
I enjoy playing him on a controller and find his POTD-flick to be quite consistent on joysticks.
Then again I mained Huntress back before Leatherface was released so I probably just got used to clunky controller aiming at this point.
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Seems like he's going to be in a good spot imo. Not weak but not overpowered. A bit of a mix of huntress and plague. Some of his adons are questionable so I think they'll be tweaked a bit before release.
Obviously high walls and Los will hurt him but this is true for huntress and slinger and plague as well.
Seems like his power really shines when you zone the survivor into a bad position which is similar to what you do with slinger and huntress.
Overall he looks promising and fun to play.
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I mean I don’t think I’ve ever personally played against one. I think I’ve seen one console huntress, and like 2 console deathslingers over months of survivor play.
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he is a pretty strong killer when it comes to 1v1 chases, not when it comes to map pressure. i have only faced one red rank deathslinger and he demolished me within 10 seconds
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Just wait. One month after drop you'll see a streamer find a lovely combo, then the threads of 'TRICKSTER OP, NO SKILL, NO COUNTERPLAY, ETC PLZ NERF,' will pour in. Then the devs will slap a one second slowdown between aiming, lower his base knife count, and call it a day.
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It feels like he needs add-ons that cause status effects. Blindness/exhaustion/hemorrhage while lacerated, etc., would be helpful. Additionally, there needs to be more of a reward for hitting the knife throws that there is now. Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to throw knives over M1.
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I hate everyone saying he's just a skilless slinger or huntress.
Seriously, he HAS been out for less than 12 hours and idc what people say people are gonna find more depth and strategy in him as time goes on now matter how easy his power is. But he's such a cool killer and I think it's good hes a little easier, he'd be a good starter killer and not every killer has to be a nurse, spirit, blight or twins.
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Agreed,he looks like a fun killer and that's all that matters to me.
It's unreasonable to expect a super high skill character like Blight every chapter.
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Thankyou, someone gets it.
Also he's hot and winks at you what more do you need?
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Yeah,he's got quite a few interesting details,which i appreciate.
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I love how he laughs or says things sometimes and you cant predict which one he'll do next. His laugh when he downs someone with the knives gets me I won't lie.
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Most console players won't play him if he's weak though. He needs to at least be decently good.
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He does look good though, maybe not red ranks 4 man SWF killing good but definitely plenty for purple/solo Q red given his low skill cap.
If you catch someone in the open or at short loops they are gonna go down without much effort on your part. And it looks pretty hard to screw up, unlike other easy killers like Bubba/Trapper where you can majorly screw up. You just spam them down and that’s that. I’m sure he will be pretty annoying with a chase build like Brutal+Bamboozle.
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He already kinda has that. Several times, I tried to hold M2 then M1 to use his ranged, and instead I got a melee lunge. So ya, there is already a notable timer for him to ready his ranged attacks.
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I don't think he looks very good and general impression seems to be he's pretty bad from what I've seen. 8 hits is a little much imo, maybe 5 or 6. iirc the only addons to reduce the number of hits needed is a purple and you need to bounce the knife and a red where you can't miss. I don't want an another add-on dependent killer, especially not if a purple/red is needed in every game.
You're not always going to be out in the open or in a short loop. He doesn't need to be (and probably shouldn't be) Huntress strong, but he's a little too weak right now imo.
Hopefully someone finds/shows something soon that makes him a little stronger.
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Huntress / Slinger and pretty much every other killer in the game suffer the same at the super safe loops and main buildings. I don’t know why you think this guy would be any different.
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I don't know why you think I thought he would be, I never stated that. I was just saying you're not always going to be in that situation.
It depends on the map and tile rng and so on. Yeah Huntress and Slinger have the same issue, Huntress and slinger also benefit from being in the open and short loops as well.
Again, he doesn't need to be as strong as Huntress, but he's just a little too weak rn.
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Thank you i've been seeing people hate on him and he hasn't even been out for 5 days i love what you said because i know someone likes Otzdarva will find the nastiest combo for him like he does to every killer i respect your statement of the perk build and combo
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