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Ricochet basekit?
Speaking only in terms of mechanics I think it's pretty apparent that Trickster needs a little extra to his kit to differentiate himself from huntress and slinger.
I think this could be ameliorated slightly by adding to his base kit. The first thing that comes to mind is to make his ricochet addon basekit- it's by far his most mechanically interesting add-on and would add an additional skill ceiling to what is currently the least mechanically complex killer released since clown (it seems like main event should add complexity, but in practice its something that just happens). From what I've seen of the ricochet, it is very tricky and doesn't offer an awful lot of an advantage to people spamming it. That said, with practice and map knowledge it could actually prove very useful at certain loops and allow the killer to play around dropped pallets in a very unique way.
There is a precident for this kind of addition: blight couldn't originally break pallets and needed an add-on to do so. Since this element already exists in the game it should be entirely possible to add to a killer who is currently lacking.
As a second suggestion- allow trickster to 'kick' gens using his power. 3 knife hits on a gen counts as a break action including all perk effects on both sides (overcharge, alert, oppression... Maybe find a way to exempt pop, but ranged pop on a 110 killer with no mobility isn't scary at all).
Again this is incredibly niche, but gives the character an entirely unique element, doesn't break the game and potentially opens up some unique perk synergies (as it is you'll never see this killer without pop+corrupt+stbfl+barbeque [for bloodpoints]).
Thoughts? Other suggestions?
Comments
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I came here to suggest ricochet as basekit actually. Glad it's not just me. It would add some more "Fun" to his power and a more interesting visual to the game to just see knives flying everywhere. Also, getting hit by a random knife as survivor might scare a few people ha ha.
I like the knife gen break. Maybe 5 instead of 3 but it's an interesting idea.
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I support this. Ricochet base kit would make him a lot more threatening and give him a unique mechanic to differentiate him from Deathslinger and Huntress
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Good idea, ricochet basekit would make him much more viable as a Killer (initial thoughts).To add to your point about Blight breaking pallets, they did the same thing with Demogorgon and his Shred attack so that makes it even more likely they'd do it. However allowing Trickster to damage gens is a stretch, especially if it applies perks like the ones you mentioned.
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I agree completely.
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Yeah, I think they need to make a few slight changes. Ricochet Basekit. Maybe not let survivors automatically heal from the stab wounds. And maybe reduce the number of daggers required to injure/down a survivor.
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Ricochet Basekit sounds amazing.
It would raise his skill ceiling and would make him feel more unique to the other ranged killers,which is always a great idea
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sounds cool, but it's worth letting people get familiar with him before anything gets done about his power level. the killers with the highest skill ceiling end up being called the worst at launch
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Gen stab was an afterthought tbh- I feel even with ricochet adding skill and flair, he still lacks map pressure.
Other 110 killers with have mobility (spirit, hag), lethality at range (huntress) or stealth+slowdown (slinger and his ability to inflict broken). Trickster lacks all three, so using his ranged power in a slightly gimmicky way is the best I could come up with!
Honestly without something unique to make up for his lack of speed I am really worried that he might be dead in the water :/
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Ricochet basekit would be a good start for sure.
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Entirely true. Power level is really hard to gauge early on... But I am completely stumped at what more there is to his power that isn't evident within the very first game?
Describing his power as having the lowest complixity since clown wasn't just hyperbole on my part- there aren't any additional status effects to abuse (pre-nerf legion), additional mobility (spirit, blight), danger at loops (deathslinger, PH)- say what you want about the Twins but they're more than a slow M1 killer with the option down survivors even slower with m2.
Even Demogorgon who I feel is massively lacking in the power department has 2 abilities for versatility and decision making throughout a match.
Trickster has so much promise in his fun factor- but he's going to need a couple gimmicks to keep the fun going past the first week of gameplay.
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Can nobody see how OP that would be?
As it is, like Plague’s Corrupt Purge, Trickster already doesn’t need to stress hard about accuracy. Sure accuracy will serve him dividends, but “spray n pray” will serve many players just fine.
Ricochet base kit will be too much.
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I can't see how it would be op? Even with a spray and pray approach it would take 16 hits to down an uninjured survivor.
I also don't know if you've seen how the ricochets bounce, but there seem to be very few angles that reliably hit.
Just to be clear, your stance is that the killer is currently at a viable power level compared to the other killers in the game?
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Except it won't. Plague isn't punished for hitting Survivors after puking on them. Trickster is. With Trickster, you HAVE to maintain you assault on someone and get them down a health state or else you have basically just wasted time. If they get away, Lacerate depreciates to eventually 0. If you M1 them, it goes immediately to 0. You cannot stack Lacerate over time. You MUST immediately make use of it or lose it. So the Plague comparison is not only not true, but in fact, Plagues ability is technically MORE forgiving and more capable of offering a long-term strategy.
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People could cheese his ricochet by aiming at the ground like Hanzo's old scatter arrow if you played OW. Maybe if it could only ricochet off walls then I'd be down.
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Eh I think that would be fine for how many knives it currently takes to damage survivors.
Especially considering you would only be able to abuse the ground-bounce when you are relatively close and not obstructed by any tiles/windows.
Would be a way to increase his lethality out in the open, or they could just remove/reduce the laceration bonus on ricochet.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason why Hanzo's scatter arrow was overpowered was because it had a large degree of autoaim when it exploded, which meant that aiming an arrow at the floor would essentially always hit, which effectively let Hanzos play as if they were aimbots for that ability. In DbD I don't BELIEVE the Trickster's ricochets work the same way.
Yes, Trickster doesn't need to worry too much about accuracy. Ricochets would actually allow for more of an accuracy skillcap. Besides, I don't think we need to worry too much about making Trickster "too easy to use" or anything, considering his knives don't actually have that much bite to them, when compared to Corrupt Purge, The Redeemer, or Hatchets.
Also, I'm willing to accept that Trickster with basekit ricochets might be overpowered. In that case, he can absolutely be nerfed in other areas! Such as moving slower while in throw mode, having a standard 32m Terror Radius, or so on. Unless ricochets fundamentally break something about him mechanically, I really think it needs to be done to make him more interesting inherently to play.
Anyway, I said this in another post, but I'm all for this suggestion. Ricochet should be basekit. It's already implemented, BHVR would just need to come up with one new VR addon effect to make it happen. (or hell, they might not even need to do that. ricochets causing bonus laceration like the addon already does is frankly fine)
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If you were playing on console you hade auto-aim. It was changed because it would do too much damage with minimal effort i.e. aiming at the ground.
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Yeah he most definitely need the ricochet basekit. I would probably also make it so that the survivor goes into deep wound if they lose a health state due to the knives.
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Yea Ide say bounce base kit and dose half damage if it bounces and the addon gives an extra bounce with normal damage
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I think it'd be cool if instead of main event doing what it does now he can throw a knife that sticks into the enviroment of the map and shows the aura of a survivor or killer instinct when they walk near the knife
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Are you kidding? even if it was base kit you basically can only hit by cheesing it at the ground in which case you might hit one or more daggers than normal but no where near worth half damage you would literally be nerfing yourself for even trying.
Do you have any idea how insanely hard it is to hit an bounce shot off? It's like deathslinger pin point accurate and off the games weird hitboxes it almost never happens except on a rare instance by fluke.
Now keep in mind he is already weak as hell, and you think somehow ricochet is going to be overpowered at base damage?
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Hmm, I read this thread and thought it sounded like a good idea. Then I faced one running it... and it can make the downs go super fast. I'd say hold off on it and see how he does as people learn him on both sides before doing so.
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The addon makes the knife do 2x damage if it bounces so I was think take the bounce as base and leave the 2x damage for a bounce to the addon and maybe make the base damage half if it bounces
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I still maintain what I just said in that would be almost entirely useless if it did not do base damage. Hell as I said, if it doesn't work within like 1 meter or something so you can't just aim at their feet, suddenly you are freed up to make it do a significant amount more damage and be completely fair.
It would have to be a lot though given how incredibly hard that is to actually pull off when you are not aiming at like, their feet. It's incredibly small and unpredictable.
The only way I would want shots that do half damage is if there was an addon that added more bounces or something.
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basekit ricochet could have 0.5x laceration on a direct hit, but 1.5x laceration on a ricochet
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I think base ricochet shouldn't have the bonus damage due to the hitting the floor strat.
The replacement purple could increase ricochet damage (maybe bump it down to green).
I don't know if this is cracked, but maybe replace with an add-on that adds a third ricochet at the cost of 25 knives (you CAN spray and pray but you better be fully stocked up and better not miss more than a few hits basically). Needing to refill at any point basically ensures a reset in laceration for whoever you were chasing so this doesn't seem too bad?
I miss killers getting add-ons that significantly change power functionality rather than just adjust values.
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I bet they nerf the addon so it can't be bounced off the ground.
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