dead hard is fine
im so tired of people saying dead hard is op because it extends chases.... like thats literally the entire point of the perk. and if you think thats op then by that same logic are we going to call insta down killer perks op since they cut chases short? of course not that would be ridiculous. so please for the love of god stop complaining about dead hard its fine the way it is.
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Almost no one actually thinks that.
Nurse tome has been active though and it's a hard counter to her, and a few other killers, so everyone was taking Dead Hard and people doing tomes were struggling; so there was a sudden spike of "Dead Hard OP" but most just agree it's a good meta perk, that's all.
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It's op because it has literally no counter and takes no skill to use. And don't say "bait it out", you can't bait out a Dead Hard for distance.
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Dead Hard is irritating because it extends chases **on command**. All of the other Exhaustion perks have a prerequisite or downside to it.
- Balanced Landing requires a significant drop to use, and not all maps have those readily available (if at all).
- Lithe requires a window or pallet vault before it can be used, both of which leave the Survivor vulnerable during their animations.
- Sprint Burst requires the Survivor to walk everywhere if they don't want to waste it, and the chances of being found mid-cooldown means it can be rarely used as a quick boost in a chase.
- Smash Hit needs you to get a successful pallet stun, which may not be possible depending on how much the Killer respects pallets.
Dead Hard has nothing. All you need to do is time the activation, which isn't difficult in the slightest.
"Welp, he pressed E and made it to that loop whereas anyone else would've gone down. Time for it to extend the chase by another 45-60 seconds."
So much skill. It's the literal definition of a Second Chance perk. At least Decisive Strike can only be used once per game, and the screw up that it needs to activate (being hooked) isn't wiped away by the perk's usage.
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No perk takes skill to use.
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Dead Hard is problematic. It does extend chases which forces the killer to spend even more time chasing them while gens fly. Gens go way too fast as it is so a perk like Dead Hard that is uncounterable when it's used correctly makes M1 killers even more helpless.
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99% of killer perks dont take skill to use either.
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Not sure if you can straight up compare it to all insta-down perks, as most of them have a condition to activate (some less reliable than others) are restricted to a timer and/or have a cooldown, making them limited in effectiveness, and providing opportunity to counterplay. If 4 survivors are using Dead Hard it's a bigger problem than if 1 Killer can get off an insta-down every couple of minutes.
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99% of Survivor perks don't require any skill to use either.
Dead Hard is just the next thing to complain about after DS.
If it somehow gets nerfed it'll be on to the next perk.
Never ends.
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What's the 1% then?
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All Dead hard does is extend a chase or recover a mess up. It can also be used to gain a little distance if you can't make it too a loop. If you think about it hard enough, dead hard is extremely powerful. Most survivors run it including myself for that very reason, if you can't see dead hard is op, then play more killer at red ranks.
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99% of playing a killer doesn't take skill. They're the goombas of the game. :D
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if dead hard gets nerfed the next perk on the chopping block would be either bt or iron will. they will never be satisfied until we have nothing left besides deja vu
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Keep in mind how much time dh can buy for the press of a button multiple times and can stack on four different survivors.
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Explain?
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Dead hard really only gets distance to a window or pallet even if they use it to get to a window or pallet you can still pick up the chase if it were lithe or SB hang it up you wasted your time.
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Killer exhaustion perk add-ons were nerfed so I doubt they'll nerf any exhaustion perks anytime soon.
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Monstrous Shrine obviously
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Y'know what? U rite
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Save the Best for Last has entered the chat.
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Smack-down is the real concern lol, unless the killer is running enduring, this your going to get mad distance. This is better than other speed exhaustion perks because the killer is stunned while you get the speed. The killer can break it to completely destroy the chase or go around it and take a bit longer.
"Not saying it's OP, it's a cool exhaustion perk".
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What skill does that perk take? All you're doing is hitting survivors that aren't the obsession.
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Im not talking about using the perk efficiently, I'm talking about the ability to just use the perk in general.
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Reread what I said.
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BT and Iron Will are a meta perk and a medium-hard counter to several killers.
Meta perks are the meta for a reason. Because they get you the best value/effort for what you expend to use the perk. The survivor meta is extremely aggressive, making it counter to the desired killer experience. In addition, these perks carry many survivor mains due to the power of the meta, leaving them almost completely defenseless in the event that they don't have access to these specific perks, not due to the basekit of survivors, but due to lack of skills that the survivors had developed to, you know survive.
This is p r o b l e m a t i c, as many people have said before.
Perks like Kindred Spirit and Unbreakable, however, are closer to most of the the killer meta in function, existing mostly to counter gameplay issues that have never been fixed and remain viable strategies, like gen speeds and drawing out chases forever on the killer side, and slugging and camping on the survivor side.
The issue with this is that most of these "remedial" perks are used on the killer side, and are extremely passive in comparison to the survivor perks. Remedial perks on the survivor side are really more of counter perks, since the issues on the survivor side are mostly the game being unfun when the killer uses certain tactics. Remedial perks on the killer side are to primarily assist with winning, since that's the main issue on the killer side, other than, of course toxicity.
Note: interestingly, there are very, very few survivor perks that combat actually toxic behavior from killers. But, thinking about it, that goes for both sides.
The killer meta is mostly slowdown perks (Ruin, Thrilling, PGtW, etc.), which fall into remedial perks, with only a couple perks that you would actually expect to be in the killer meta (Nurse's, BBQ, MYC, etc.).
The survivor meta is mostly second chance perks (Self Care, DS, UB, etc.), and perks that are basically there to make sure the game remains a casual game for survivors (Spine Chill, BT, Iron Will, etc.), and a couple perks just meant to hinder or even bully the killer if used right (Boil Over, Dead On, Saboteur, etc.).
Notice any issues here? If not, I don't really see the point in me talking any more.
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Lol everything you said can just be said in reverse. You say killers perks are there to counter gameplay issues. The exact same thing can be said about these so called OP perks. What if the issue is that it’s too easy for killers do down survivors, and they need these to have any chance. I can now call these ‘remedial’ perks like you called all the killer ones. Second chance perks are no different to perks and killer add ons that give hits when they other wouldn’t have
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For this guy to say this.. you know there is no argument that can defend DH.
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Instadowns perks have activation requirements, and can be avoided by playing well. Dead Hard requires you to put in all of the effort of pushing a button to recover from a mistake that should have spelled the end of the chase.
On top of that, it is far, far more valuable for a survivor to extend a chase than it is for a killer to end one quickly.
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I said that most of the killer meta perks are remedial, and I call them "remedial" perks because the devs put them in instead of actually balancing any basekit features.
It very much is not "too easy" for killers to down survivors. If it was, T-bagging at every single vault and stun would be a death sentence. Survivors can do that even against Pyramid Head and get away.
The whole concept of the killer is that if they catch you, you die. There are very few perks that help killers with chases directly (NOED, Bamboozle, STBFL), while survivors have too many to count.
I was saying that survivor perks are based mostly around covering for mistakes, while killer perks are based around punishing survivors and stopping them. Other than chases, everything has to be instigated by the survivors, while in the horror genre if there's a monster it is almost invariably the instigator.
The whole point of a monster is that it intrudes upon the norm and terrorizes the protagonists. They are, by definition, strange, intrusive, and are active players.
In DbD, the killer (monster) is the norm, and the survivors are attacking them by forcing unwanted change on the environment and resisting almost every attempt to stop them that does not instantly succeed, and failed attempts are rarely anything but an obvious loss for the killer beyond even the failed attempt itself.
The survivors set the time limit. They control the game. They can do almost anything and still succeed. They have perks and, more importantly, teammates to cover for their mistakes. They are in charge.
The killer rushes to stop them. They have to adapt even though they lack access to the necessary tools to. Any mistake they make can and often does cost them the entire game. Other than endgame builds, the game is essentially over for them once the EGC commences. They are supposed to react, and their job is to make the game fun for the survivors, and nothing else.
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I think dead hard is fine because of how often it manages to do absolutely nothing.
Only a few survivors will actually manage to get perfect use out of it every time and they could probably use every other exhaustion the same way. Once you know a survivor has it, it's an extremely pathetic perk.
Unless a god pallet is still up and close-by, dead hard will not work multiple times in a game.
Most dead hard users depend on it and panic when you're not attacking them. They start to try & 360 and eventually use it while getting nowhere.
There is a certain skill to it, because while pressing E towards a close pallet is easy, you still have to place yourself accordingly & it might not work if the killer expects it.
"Bait out dead hard" is a legit saying. Out in the open, this perk does nothing compared to a lithe or 99'ed sprint burst.
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It's literally a third health state but ok.
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I don't think you know what literally means but ok.
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Lithe does nothing out in the open
Sb gains you distance but it can't be controlled and that distance could be meaningless
Nothing saves you from being hit in the middle of nowhere so why is this even a point to argue?
we are talking about good survivors here.
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Um excuse me no perk takes skill to use? I'll have you know that when I use kindred I have to turn my camera to face towards the hook to get information and takes a lot of practice to get right! ;)
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That's survivor's fault for prioritizing gens. Survivors have 100% control and counterplay to NOED vs 0% control or counterplay to Dead Hard for distance.
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Lithe is a lot easier to use than balanced landing for example. It can be used at very unsafe pallets if you get a stun or just take a hit. This is what I meant by the middle of nowhere. Now in the absolute middle of nowhere deadhard doesn't help either. Sprint burst can be controlled by 99-ing your exhaustion and this is exactly what I specified in my post.
Being a good survivor doesn't mean dead hard is gonna work for you. It won't do more than a lithe would from loop to loop. Unless it's used to gain access to a god pallet, the killler can still get a hit by looping around after & the deadhard user is inevitably injured already.
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LMAO killer mains are really something else istg
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It's anoying when survivors use dead hard to reach a palet but, whatever I don't tink it's that big problem, unbreakable is more anoying for me.
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Honestly after DS and Dead Hard, I don't have anymore survivor perks to complain about. Maybe 4-man SWFs abusing Adrenaline but that's about it.
Edit: Oh, and Iron Will because it's a glorified sound bug where you make no noise.
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It is OP because it's literally you playing killer "1 hit, 2 hit, down. Oh no wait, they had that one perk. Guess I need to hit them 3 times now." It's a third health state in a nutshell.
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Mmm, another killer's tears...how do you all know exactly when I'm feeling parched? :)
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Dead Hard is literal invincibility. Ignore using it for distance on command, you can literally use it as a shield to prevent getting hit even if you don't use it for distance. For example you can DH into a killer who swung at you at the same time to prevent from getting hit because it's invisible frames on command.
It is perpetual Mettle Of Man with no meaningful prerequisite.
edit: not disagreeing with you btw, just expanding on your point
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Can I get that in writing? Oh wait.
In Australia the native people protest each year to get something to change. Whether it be more money, rights or land. It never ends. The same definitely applies here. There is always the next thing to complain about.
If the game doesn't reach end game - Adrenaline is a wasted perk slot for 4 survivors. That's huge.
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When I said the ability to use the perk in general, I mean the conditions in order to do what the perk says.
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Dead hard is actually a killer perk. Change my mind
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