NOED exists to punish survivors for gen rushing

I believe the problem with NOED isn't the fact it instadowns you, its just how easy it is to use the perk. I think 1 of 2 of these changes could really help this. Either,

1) The perk should still be a hex, but the amount of Instadowns you have depend on how many totems are still up. If all 5 totems are still up when generators are done, 1 totem becomes active and it is noed, and each totem still remaining gives 2 instadowns, including the totem NOED lights up, so if no one does bones, you have 10 instadowns ready at the end. This means that "doing bones" is an actual strategy meaning even if you can't find all the bones, when it becomes active they could only have like 2 instadowns if you do enough bones.

2) The perk would act like a BBQ and no longer be a hex perk. Each survivor gives you 1 token from hooking them, and when all generators are done, you get 1 instadown per token. This is only 4 hits, but that is still extremely powerful if used right, and it rewards the killer for actually doing their objective well, and if they don't play good they don't have that strong insurance waiting for them.

NOED is stronger, but I can't light 5 candles and remove ds from every survivor in the match.

“yeah, how dare survivors do there main objective” - noed

I don’t get that logic. There are 5 totems spread out all over the map. What are you going to do, run all over the map looking for lit totems once all the gens are done? Because that’s exactly what you’re going to have to do if you don’t get lucky and NOED spawns at the first or even second one you see.

If you're solo queuing you'll never know how many totems were broken by your teammates.

Maybe you broke 4 and figured you know what, surely someone else broke this last one that I can't find.

Nope.

Maybe you didn't want to specifically search for them & broke one or two because you saw this Nancy had a map and figured hell she's surely using inner strenght and is gonna break a few.

Nope.

Cherry on top: you won't know the killer has noed until it's too late for someone.

Even if you had friends to play with, unless you're a full group of 4 and keep track of it, you might be surprised by the last standing totem nobody found or forgot about because James here said he broke 3 when in fact it was 2 and James has had one two many drinks before booting up the game.

If anything we should blame James.

So....then if DS got nerfed, NOED should get a nerf too!

I can see what you're getting at, but it's a stretch to say that not doing totems is a punishment for purported "genrushing". Said "genrushing" can be solved by applying pressure to survivors, via getting downs at hooks. If you feel you are getting "genrushed," don't blame survivors for doing their objectives, blame yourself for failing to keep up the pressure.

The main issue with classifying totems as objectives is that that simply isn't the point of totems. They're easy to cleanse, and will hardly buy you any time with survivors who have map knowledge. That being said, nobody expects NOED at high ranks. It's easy to counter, but such a rare possibility that you barely ever think about it, much like deception or diversion.

It is also worth noting that DS is not an appropriate analogue to NOED, especially after the new nerfs. DS is a simple, singular stun for a tunnel, which can be countered by slugging. Moreover, it only procs once. NOED is an instant expose on all survivors, which is plain ridiculous. Similarly to DS, it's a second chance perk in intention, but NOED transcends that limit and is able to win you entire games on its merits alone. All you have to do is play badly enough to get to the endgame and you've gotten yourself a win, as long as you're somewhat decent. It is absolutely absurd to compare the atrocity of NOED to the mild annoyance of DS.

Of course, that's not to say NOED is overpowered. It certainly has the potential to be, but it's a hex perk so it can really only be so good. If you can concentrate pressure well on a killer with decent map mobility or tracking (EG, doctor, nurse), you can get four downs before a gate opens. Otherwise, you get a few downs, maybe a few kills, and all survivors are gone or your totem gets cleansed in 5 seconds.

TL;DR, NOED is a punishment for not doing totems, which is irrelevant to the conversation about generator speeds.

Forget the post I lol'd every time you said 'but xyz, you say' 😄 🤣

At least your opinion is clear;

NOED exists to punish survivors for gen rushing, you say

To the actual point, I think the issues you raise are very well thought out ans constructive. Survivors love to hate it and it gives them an excuse for salty behaviour

Altogether now.....

<in a robotic voice>....... "I.Must.Be.A.GenBot......Do.Bones.Does.Not.Compute...Does.Not....."

I think criticising NOED for being a second chance perk for killers (it's the only one) is unfair when you consider how survivors have many more that grant them second chances, and some of them do not have any realistic counters to them, whereas NOED does. You can complain about totem placements, but so many maps have bad totem spawns and it's very easy to simply remember where they are and if it's a problem, you can always bring a totem perk, which not only counters NOED, but also other hex perks which are common.

Furthermore, I don't understand the premise of ''it makes killers play bad'' or ''Killers don't learn to pressure gens correctly'' when using NOED makes you play with three perks for the entire game, so you need to play harder to get the same outcome as playing with four perks. And if a good killer, who has all the skills, puts on NOED, they don't suddenly become incapable of applying pressure or playing effectively.

I think people just stereotype NOED users as the newbie killers who play horrendous and then get 3-4 kills at the end with it, which ONLY happens if the survivor(s) make extreme mistakes. Most of the time, NOED only grants one kill, and sometimes it's not even needed since the survivor would've gone down anyway.

I don't see why it gets hate, I find it extremely fun to be under pressure to find the totem ASAP when its active, it makes the killer an actual threat at the end-game which is honestly something that needs to be more common.

We are playing with 4 other ppl in each match. what's fun for you might not be fun for me. 4 survivors wanna survive,are they tryhards? killer using mori and NOED, are they tryhards? Is this how you call someone who does everything to succeed in a game? There is a counterplay for ALMOST everything. Hate NOED? do dulls. it takes 70 seconds plus running time to do all 5, which is not long taken that a random player usually spends minutes wasting time. I only play duo and there are no totems left after 3 mins into a match cause we take them as priority. as of DS, just respect it. It is needed, because there are ppl out there who deliberately want to ruin survivors' day, I have escaped facecampers and tunnelers millions of time using DS and Deliverance. BUT ITS NEVER A GUARANTEE. The stun lasts 5 seconds.You might be at a terrible spot when you are able to use it. When most of the palettes are gone looping becomes more limited, especially towards the end of the game you wont pull off a loop so clean like you would at the start, especially against zoning killers like the Hag. This game cannot be balanced. Not until the queue is separated for solo and premade survivors. having someone to communicate with, an extra pair of eye essentially can get you godhood in this game. This game was never meant to have a mode where you can play with friends in the first place; it was only implemented before the release of beta (or sometime before the actual release, cant remember), because let's face it, this way they have more players. Premade teams should get serious restrictions to make up for the fact that they have voice chat. Also please don't forget, that Assymetrical games like this one are especially hard to balance, and are usually doomed to death. I think we should be grateful for what we have now, This game is much more balanced than it was.

PS. Im survivor main. And I love you Killer mains <3. if you want to reply; i'm not trying to pick up a fight, I admit the game is and always was survivor sided, but I am curious of your thoughts

have a nice day, and remember. Stop bashing each other. This is a GAME. you play it for joy, and relaxation. If you ever feel frustrated, just take a break. it can work wonders, trust me.

So far no good killer-streamer has ever claimed that NOED is for bad killers only, that should tell you alot.

Even the best killerplayers use NOED from time to time, there's no shame when survivors have crutches on crutches on crutches that make life easy.

Killers who go against teams who don't derp around, don't do achievements and don't do "challenges" will usually at most 2k if survivors sit on gens and split up and just run away from other survivors/gens to waste time unless killers go for 3gen, the killrates prove this with them being AT MOST 60% even tho many survivors do not play the objective at all me included.

I've said before what they could do is make gen speed relative to how many survivors are left if more survivors it would reduce tunneling because then survivors would get gens done faster. A 15-30 second timer pause on hook for campers could work as well.

It really should be. You cant spam bottles, you get 4 and that's it.

For killers it's a gamble, whether it activates or is even needed.

For survivors it's punishment for being single minded with objectives and ignoring the dangers of letting totems go unbroken.