The difference in respect between Nurse and Spirit players
It's pretty crazy. I've gotten countless DMs from survivors who tell me gg and compliment my Nurse but just today I played my first Spirit match in months and that exact same match I immediately get a DM from one of the survivors calling me a trash camper and tunneler even though I really didn't do either of those. I feel bad for Spirit mains. I can't even imagine how much hate they get daily just for playing their favorite killer.
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There is this wierd thing where people stop caring if the community perception is that a killer takes skill, regardless of how much effor the killer actually put into the trial
The best part is when survivors compliment me on my Nurse plays and I try really hard to not point out how little attention I was paying, yet when I struggle as Spirit and get a 0k with terrible builds I get absolutely flamed.
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You're right.
Juxtapose it with the amount of killer stuff that doesn't take skill and that's why Nurse is loved and appreciated.
It's weird you're right but that's where the balance is at with this game isn't it...
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Spirit doesn't take nearly as much skill and effort to justify just how strong she is.
Nurse may be the best, but she doesn't feel unfair to go against because there's actually ways to play around her.
I'd much rather go against a god-tier Nurse main then even a mediocre Spirit main. At least in the former match, I can enjoy myself and feel my death was because of my own mistakes, and not cheap like against a Spirit.
It's very difficult to play the Nurse effectively, so it makes sense that her ability is super powerful once mastered.
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Nurse isnt unfair for trained Killer players. Because unlike other killer, the more you train, the better your Nurse, there is no limited.
But its really unfair for any survivor who vs God Nurse.
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Spirit is really good despite her taking very little skill. So that probably why they get alot of hate for it.
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I'm a retired Nurse main and actively a Spirit main.
I've gotten use to the salt I get when playing Spirit. I understand the Spirit hate. Granted sure it sucks that you got use to being spoon fed counterplay information and you have to guess and hope the move you make is the right one (which is what 90% killer gameplay is) but just because you gotta guess and resort to different tactics doesn't mean a character is broken.
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I've been told that I did really well as playing spirit even though I only got 1k and it was the rancor that I moried
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It's because survivors have a higher tolerance for nurse than spirit. Spirit isn't fun to play against at all so I understand the frustration, but it's still stupid regardless to send hate mail for that.
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I think the issue is less about the player and more about the killer itself
To play Nurse well you have to be above mediocre because she's more punishing with her mistakes (fatigue) and her blinks involve practice and muscle memory.
Spirit on the other hand, while she is more difficult than people admit, you can suck ass with Spirit and still 4k at any skill level regardless of how well you use your phase. Because it simply involves a headset, stridor, or following scratch marks. And also the fact that she has no counterplay; she knows where survivors are, but survivors don't know where she is. So people have respect for matches they deem to warrant some sort of skill and/or balance.
I don't really blame people for being upset at versuing Spirit because she's busted. She can be invisible while being able to hit you and survivors have no indication as to where she is. Nurse on the other hand has to predict along with the survivor where the survivor goes. With every blink you know it takes effort and skill.
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Honestly both Nurse and spirit mains can frick off. Im not having fun with both
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I have an explanation for that actually.
If you really think about it, nurse is the only killer that, if played correctly, is completely uncounterable. But yet, nurse players get praised, why that? Because of two reasons:
#1 She requires a lot of skill to learn and master, you need to play so many awful games as nurse to get the hang of her, and you need to keep doing this over and over again until you become unstoppable. It's like an investment. So, there's a built in respect for nurse mains since they didn't give up and learnt how to play her extremely good.
#2 Because it's so hard to learn nurse, there aren't many nurse mains out there. I myself have given up on learning her because she's so hard. And because it's a rare killer, nobody thinks of her that much.
On the other side, there's a lot of hate about spirit. And the reason behind that is, that just like nurse, she doesn't have a lot of counters. Playing against her is basically predicting or getting lucky. Just like nurse, everything you've learned as a survivor doesn't work against the spirit, looping normally is simply not an option. The spirit doesn't require the same amount of skill as nurse, not even close to her learning curve, but she has the same payoff. And since she's an extremely popular killer, you see a lot of spirits. So the combinations of lack of counterplay, the fact that she's not hard to learn, a bit difficult to master tho, and her being in a lot of games are the reasons she's so hated, imo
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Thats basically it. ScottJund made a video about it that losing against a Nurse feels more earned from the Killer than losing against a Spirit.
You are right, against a god Nurse, there is nothing you can do as Survivor, you will die. But that person had put so much effort into the game to learn her at this point. And running into a god Nurse is basically the same probability to run into a tournament SWF - it does almost never happen.
@Topic:
As said before, Nurse requires more effort. But if the Nurse is just "good" and has not mastered the Killer, the Survivor has more counterplay than against Spirit. Also, there are way more Spirit-Players out there and you dont have to do much to get good Results with Spirit. With Stridor it is basically idiot-proof.
And if we think about it - what is more frustrating? Losing against a Nurse because she predicted my movement or losing against a Spirit, because she has ears?
Post edited by Aven_Fallen on3 -
It’s weird how everyone thinks nurse is okay because she requires skill when I’d argue blight requires more for much less reward
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There's this conception that Spirit doesn't take any skill to play while Nurse is notoriously the killer that has the highest skill floor.
I think a lot of this is due to the lack of feedback Spirit has. Is it a good Spirit who predicted your movements without even needing to use her ears? Or was it a mediocre one that tracked you down with Stridor and burned through almost her entire power gauge? You have no idea. You don't even know when she started phasing. It's a mix of a feeling of helplessness combined with the lack of distinction of good/bad plays unless you're seeing things from the killer's PoV. What ends up happening is she is widely written off as a skill-less killer who only requires a headset and Stridor to win.
With Nurse, you're arguably even more screwed if the Nurse knows what she's doing. Thing is, you SEE the Nurse. You break LoS but she still gets you? Damn, you should've doubled back. Do you do that? Damn, she saw it coming and now you're on the ground. You see what the Nurse does so you know what you could've done instead. She feels like she has more counterplay despite arguably having the same amount or even less than Spirit. You can also tell the difference between a good and bad one easily as bad ones you have an easier time juking blinks, while good ones... you're on the ground before you can even try.
They're about the same levels of strength and have about the same amount of counterplay, but Spirit is reviled due to the lack of feedback she gives while Nurse still gives feedback... it just doesn't matter once the Nurse is good enough.
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I won't lie
Whenever I load into a game and i see Spirit I think, oh FFS i hate Spirit.
But then i actually use my brain and the counter play that everyone knows exists and enjoy the match like I would normally.
I think tbh that a lot of spirits are spoon fed victories because people either dont know they counter play or think its worthless and give up because of Spirit's reputation. It becomes much easier when you actually try because they aren't used to that.
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Spirit is disgusting
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Honestly I stopped respecting nurses once I realized how easily it actually was. It took my somewhat new friend like not even a day to consistently 4k even in red ranks. I think some people just haven't really tried Nurse for more than a game or 2 and think she's really hard to play as.
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So, you guys are saying, just because people play a killer that developers made that is really easy to play (according to you), you have foundation to insult people who play that killer?
I swear, this community sometimes..
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it always makes me feel good when surivors complaining for some reason :D
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Nurse is fine but the issue is the entire survivor team needs to understand how she works mechanically to deal with a good one. That's why now when you see a Nurse in red ranks most survivors get demolished because no one plays Nurse anymore. So they don't understand how Nurse works mechanically then they get dumpstered. If you see more Nurse players you'll have less of this issue.
Her power is telegraphed quite well and if you understand charge time and blink speed you'll almost know exactly where she's going to land based on where she's looking, what angle and how long she holds the blink until you hear the woosh noise. Thing is if she holds it too long you know close range blinks will take longer for her to land and some movement close up becomes impossible for her.
I gave a better explanation on another thread but I can tl;dr it like this
All of Nurses' strengths can only be learned on Nurse
All of Spirits strengths are learned on other killers which is tracking sounds - Her power past that is stupidly simple that yes she takes very little skill. The only thing specifically unique to her is her passive phasing that lets spirit players lazily mind game survivors with zero effort. Passive effects is why HEX: Ruin was changed I really don't understand why people think Spirit is fine. They'll argue it isn't oppressive I'm sure but that's just a buzzword to deny the fact that it's not engaging at all for survivor.
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She does telegraph her power but even if she’s off on her her first blink she can easily make up with her second
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Its funny how the Nurse position flipped. Years back she was getting the most disconnects and everyone was calling for nerfs. Then it was Spirit. Now Spirit seems to have been put on hold a little bit because its Freddy everyone disconnects.
A lot of people are sheep and they will just follow the opinion of whatever youtuber put out the most recent video.
Nurses is still the most broken killer in the game. Some maps she takes a lot of skill, other areas not so much. Her “skill” doesnt matter though in a way because once a nurse gets to a certain level there’s little a survivor team can do. Shes the opposite of m1 killers, instead of the killer relying on survivor mistakes now the survivors rely purely on nurse mistakes. There isnt even the so called 50/50 you get with Spirit
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Nurse is basically just cheating I'm sorry but if you think nurse takes "a ton of skill" to master then I've got a bridge to sell you and maybe you should try playing actual hard games instead.
Nurse players get no respect from me, any gamer with a measly 5 hour playtime per day can master her so fast that it's 4k after 4k after 4k with no effort, there's a reason ppl like Otz usually don't play her much, because those matches are onesided and boring, the only thing that can beat her is a complete SWF focused on rushing out gens, I'd be okay with people picking her against those teams but yeah that's not a decision you can make mid lobby anymore so we end up getting sweaty nurses against complete randoms, if the map has almost no LOS then there's no point in playing.
She needs a complete rework.
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Nurse: If you do not know what you are doing It can backfire..You can still "hide" from the Nurse and even try to outsmart her. Teleports have a stun after a set amount of time. As a Result If she fails to land a blow It hurts a lot. Losing to a Nurse feels either like you ######### up majorly or the Nurse was skilled. Because, her skillgap is high because If she teleports and goofs she loses.
Spirit: Does not get stun while in her invis mode..Let us not lie It is a invis mode but for some reason is treated like a teleport. Honestly from what I see dev wise Spirit gets specials treatment (assuming cause she sells a lot of skins) and her skill with never be fixed in a meaningful way. This also is not including the fact she phases at random as well, so her character is one big distortion who keeping track off is a #########...On top of that she has no outline like Wraith does when he moves around because once again she is treated like a teleporting killer when she is not and gets to leave her husk around which is basically her "mind games" which is a nice way of saying people will pretend to be a husk to whack you. But most of all you can't use a flashlight to counter her power...Which I think would make her more barable If you could expose her moment with the flashlight or at least use killer seeing skills to see her invisaport movement.
It is one of those things a lot of thing can be done to fix It..But no one is trying.
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Because Spirit is super easy to play and extremely strong even in not good hands so people see her as a cheesy easy modo while Nurse is quite hard to play and master.
A lot of people respect effort and dedication and frown upon easy way outs, thats why Spirit is not very respected, especially if paired with Stridor.
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The only reason Nurse is let off the hook now is because you don’t see them much anymore. No point hating something you see once in a blue moon, and thats just Nurse in general, most you see will be bad nurses so a good one is even rarer.
People used to absolutely despise Nurse when she was more popular. People also didnt hate spirit as much before everyone in the game started using her.
Its like Hag, mousewheel teleports are busted and if she chooses to play campy its mindnumbingly dull but not too many people complain because nobody ever sees them.
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Nurse takes no skill. Just have a mouse and keyboard, or have OP add-ons.
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Nurse is way more annoying to face than any other killer to me. She makes Hag and Spirit look like bottom tiers. Hag has to place traps to tp, and Spirit loses sight. Nurse just blinks through all her problems.
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Nurse has to guess when you're behind a LoS blocker. Hag teleports and has her camera locked on to you automatically. Nurse can't blink very far by default, whereas Spirit can cover half the map with a single full charge.
The Nurse requires a different playstyle from both killers and survivors. That's all. Be adaptive.
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The only compliment I’ve ever gotten for playing Spirit is having a good outfit.
It has stuck with me to this day. 🥺
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Yeah a Nurse thats good is far worse than a spirit thats great. At least pallets and vaults can avoid a hit against Spirit.
Hag all depends on if the player knows whether to bind teleport to mouse wheel. If not shes ok because you get a reaction time, if they do know to do that there you get hit the second she teleports theres really no way to avoid it.
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Nurse requires a lot of skill to learn to play and does have counterplay in most situations.
Spirits on the other hand just throw on Stridor and jack up the volume on their headphones (Or even use mixers to amplify the effect of Stridor) and they have zero counterplay. Its crazy how one perk can unbalance a killer so much. But, such is the case with Spirit. :/
If Spirits don't use Stridor I respect them for their skill but if they do then you're basically playing on easy mode on the equivelant of a 4 man SWF.
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That's how builds work, you take perks that complement each other and your character. Your best bet is being stealthy, since the Spirit can't see you. Adapt to the killer you're playing.
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You played one game. For all you know that survivor would have said that about any killer or any high tier killer.
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heh, the best I ever did with Rin was 2k and 2 escapes. I wish I'd get salty messages after a spirit match, just once. and I will go back to my main gal Lisa and never touch Rin again
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The Nurse doesn't "mindgame" by standing still. As broken as the Nurse can be, when you get hit you can always think of how you could have played it differently. With the Spirit most of the times you have the feeling that what you did didn't even matter because it was all based on chance.
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SWF can destroy Hag if 1 survivor is always forcing her to chase and tripping her traps. But yes, I think her macro tp is stupid as it even can counter that strategy.
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I love playing against Nurse, even if i die games are fun. Because there is chance for counter her. And i respect Nurse players because i know how hard playing as Nurse.
But when i play against Spirit i am just killing myself on first hook. Game is not fun against her and i dont wanna stay in game.
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People say nurse is harder to play than spirit but I just don't agree. It's true, getting a good blink is difficult but what's a harder is locating a survivor as spirit, especially survivors with iron will.
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nurse is 4k hungry, sweats, likely to 4 man slug, doesnt waste a second of barbecue and chilli, immediately goes to the nearest gen being worked on, but isnt that toxic (usually)
spirit: hits you on the hook for no reason and stares at you for 3 seconds, nods when they down you, rubs the fact that they mindgamed you in your face, throws the game just to ruin it, call you trash in your steam profile comment section,
overall, nurse sweats more, but spirit is more toxic.
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So Nurse is fine?
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she may be annoying to go against but atleast she doesnt give me the mental pain like the spirit does
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How on earth is there a chance to counter nurse, but from your reply I'm assuming you're one of those who thinks spirit has no counterplay.
Nurse was always the most hated killer. I feel like a lot of people here have rose-tinted specs and when they think of Nurse they're thinking of the Nurses they go against who are just mediocre players wanting to do a daily, therefore plenty of mistakes.
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Honestly I get far more sweat from Spirits.
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Learning Nurse is not easy and here not so much good Nurse players. I hate Nurses when they have so much blinks. But still Nurse is not annoying me like Spirit. I really dont like Spirit, when i see her on my matches i am just killing myself.
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That makes 2 of us.
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as others have pointed it out before:
the main issue is how little there is to do in the game, and how many big streamers push the idea that you must completely devastate the 'other' side when playing (because it attracts views), meaning some people are drawn towards killers that have easily exploitable powers, no matter how balanced they might appear in theory (because lbr, the devs rarely give the impression their ideas for how a killers will get played are based on actual gameplay).
Spirit has this issue, as do bubba, pig, freddy and to a degree deathslinger. Huntress and clown get this with their iri insta-down addons that atm work at short distance, and let's not speak of myers and the tuftstone combo.
These killers get such a bad reputation from people who are abusing exploits to pretend they got the biggest skill in the whole community.
And it's sobering how the devs encourage scummy playing time and time again.
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I'm sorry, but to know how to counter Nurse, or you have 2500+ hours in the game as a survivor, or one day you were/are a Nurse main.
Nurse is strong. Hell yeah she's strong, and probably the strongest killer in the game. But she has a lot of counter plays. As a survivor, there are situations where you never want to be facing a Nurse. Play Nurse, and you'll know the tricks and tips to make your chases long enough to win. When you played her long enough, you know exactly how much distance a Nurse is charging, and by seeing where she's looking at, you can juke her. And yes, in the open, she WILL catch you. Search for loops with high wall and trees, these are quite commons and allow you to do a lot of mindgames by breaking LoS.
But Spirit, it's just a matter of having the habit to evaluate distance while hearing survivors or beating Iron Will. And in the survivor PoV, you make "random" plays, you wait a little, then vault, maybe vault again if you want, there is not mind game, there is only 50/50, alea jacta est, maybe I'll die, maybe I'll live, but it's not your skill that is making your fate as a survivor. And this is a problem. You can't blame yourself for playing badly. You just... took the hit. That's it.
I hate Spirit as a survivor, it's... So random. It's uninteresting as fck :/
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The difference between mind games of a normal killer and survivor to the one when you facing spirit is that when you're trying to mind game normal killer, both sides have simmilar chance of the results because neither of them see eachother at tiles etc. With spirit you just have to put stridor and hear survivor at any given time, so it isn't really a mind game when spirit knows exactly where you are. You just mind game with yourself.
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